Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Quick question... I don't know if this has been asked or not...

Does a DT have to have a unit associated with it to be on the table? Like can I deploy and empty drop pod, or have an empty rhino or razorback running around?

Does that unit have to begin the game inside the DT?

I saw a game going on and someone had several several drop pods and they mentioned that they could have as many as they wanted as it was a DT. At 35 pts a pop you can have quite many of them.

you have to associate the dedicated transport with a unit when organizing your army and paying the points for units, but not on the tabletop. you can drop a pod empty or deploy a razorback without the associated squad. the downside to this is that it gives up a separate killpoint in addition to the one for the squad you buy it with. that's why these tournies that don't use KP have so many high KP armies with lots of transports as the balance to it is removed.

"I saw a game going on and someone had several several drop pods and they mentioned that they could have as many as they wanted as it was a DT. At 35 pts a pop you can have quite many of them."

If I understand your question the answer is that a unit can only have 1 dedicated transport. So you can not buy 2 drop pods for the same unit or a drop pod and a razorback. You are limited in the number of DTs to the number of units that can purchase them.
If I misunderstood your question I apologize.

warboss wrote:you have to associate the dedicated transport with a unit when organizing your army and paying the points for units, but not on the tabletop. you can drop a pod empty or deploy a razorback without the associated squad. the downside to this is that it gives up a separate killpoint in addition to the one for the squad you buy it with. that's why these tournies that don't use KP have so many high KP armies with lots of transports as the balance to it is removed.

I guess I'm a bit of a noob here... Let me see if I understand. If you drop an empty pod, than the pod and the squad are both a KP? What if the squad comes in with the pod, is the DT not a KP?

Frankly, I think this is total cheese to drop an empty pod. I guess you should be able to, but it'd be a Heavy or something and double the points. I dunno.

MisterMoon wrote:

warboss wrote:you have to associate the dedicated transport with a unit when organizing your army and paying the points for units, but not on the tabletop. you can drop a pod empty or deploy a razorback without the associated squad. the downside to this is that it gives up a separate killpoint in addition to the one for the squad you buy it with. that's why these tournies that don't use KP have so many high KP armies with lots of transports as the balance to it is removed.

I guess I'm a bit of a noob here... Let me see if I understand. If you drop an empty pod, than the pod and the squad are both a KP? What if the squad comes in with the pod, is the DT not a KP?

Frankly, I think this is total cheese to drop an empty pod. I guess you should be able to, but it'd be a Heavy or something and double the points. I dunno.

they're always a separate KP. new players to the game (and even a tourney organizer that cost me first place..grumble) often think that they're not worth a separate KP and its a very common mistake. the rules say a UNIT is worth a kill point, not a slot on the force organization chart which is not always the same as a unit. a unit is something that has the ability to move and shoot independently (regardless of whether or not it is doing so at the moment) as an easy example of how to think about it. dedicated transports can move and shoot separately from the unit they're bought with so they're a killpoint. tau gun drones that come with a devilfish can exit the vehicle and shoot independently and are worth a KP unfortunately. units that are bought together but can (not *must* but simply *can*) deploy/move separately like a marine commander and his command squad count as one each. characters bought together for one force org slot (like blood angel sanguinary priests) are 1 KP each. a dark angel ravenwing attack squadron can come with an attack bike and speeder that separate upon deployment and count as a KP each (so max 4 for that force org slot including combat squads). the move/shoot thing isn't official but its the easiest way i've found to explain how to determine whether something is worth a KP and i've never come across an example where its actually been wrong. the only exception is the tyrannid spore mine unit because they specifically have a rule that says they don't count towards any mission objectives and KP are a mission objective.

the other thing that people mistakenly do along the same regard is to deploy too much on dawn of war deployment games. DoW says you deploy two troop UNITS and an HQ unit. basically, the same move/shoot rules apply there for determining a "unit". a marine tactical squad of 5 in a rhino counts as two troop UNITS, not one. hope that helps.

warboss wrote:

MisterMoon wrote:

warboss wrote:you have to associate the dedicated transport with a unit when organizing your army and paying the points for units, but not on the tabletop. you can drop a pod empty or deploy a razorback without the associated squad. the downside to this is that it gives up a separate killpoint in addition to the one for the squad you buy it with. that's why these tournies that don't use KP have so many high KP armies with lots of transports as the balance to it is removed.

I guess I'm a bit of a noob here... Let me see if I understand. If you drop an empty pod, than the pod and the squad are both a KP? What if the squad comes in with the pod, is the DT not a KP?

Frankly, I think this is total cheese to drop an empty pod. I guess you should be able to, but it'd be a Heavy or something and double the points. I dunno.

they're always a separate KP. new players to the game (and even a tourney organizer that cost me first place..grumble) often think that they're not worth a separate KP and its a very common mistake. the rules say a UNIT is worth a kill point, not a slot on the force organization chart which is not always the same as a unit. a unit is something that has the ability to move and shoot independently (regardless of whether or not it is doing so at the moment) as an easy example of how to think about it. dedicated transports can move and shoot separately from the unit they're bought with so they're a killpoint. tau gun drones that come with a devilfish can exit the vehicle and shoot independently and are worth a KP unfortunately. units that are bought together but can (not *must* but simply *can*) deploy/move separately like a marine commander and his command squad count as one each. characters bought together for one force org slot (like blood angel sanguinary priests) are 1 KP each. a dark angel ravenwing attack squadron can come with an attack bike and speeder that separate upon deployment and count as a KP each (so max 4 for that force org slot including combat squads). the move/shoot thing isn't official but its the easiest way i've found to explain how to determine whether something is worth a KP and i've never come across an example where its actually been wrong. the only exception is the tyrannid spore mine unit because they specifically have a rule that says they don't count towards any mission objectives and KP are a mission objective.

the other thing that people mistakenly do along the same regard is to deploy too much on dawn of war deployment games. DoW says you deploy two troop UNITS and an HQ unit. basically, the same move/shoot rules apply there for determining a "unit". a marine tactical squad of 5 in a rhino counts as two troop UNITS, not one. hope that helps.

If you get a chance, can you point me to the pages in the rule book where I can reference this? I'm getting ready for a huge 1000 pt tourny which is only KP, I want to make sure that I can reference this if need be.

MisterMoon wrote:If you get a chance, can you point me to the pages in the rule book where I can reference this? I'm getting ready for a huge 1000 pt tourny which is only KP, I want to make sure that I can reference this if need be.

Page 91 under Annihilation (kill point for each unit), Page 92 under multiple unit choices (units and DT count as separate units), page 67 (DT can only be deployed with the unit they were selected with) and page 94 (DTs can only be deployed and so can only be held in reserve either empty or transporting the unit they wre selected with).

And, of course, P3 where they define what a unit is.

Nicely done, sirs.