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Relapse wrote:
I kinda sorta reminds me of the game Chronopia from way back when.

Except those figures were you know, fun.

 The Shadow wrote:

Avrik_Shasla wrote: They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.

That's all well and good, but what about the mass battle game that so many people enjoyed?
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.

That would've been the thinking man's play, so GW would never go for it.

 Bull0 wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Avrik_Shasla wrote: They needed a quick skirmish game to take on Warmahordes, and they may pull it off with this release, if the rules are good that is.

That's all well and good, but what about the mass battle game that so many people enjoyed?
If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.

That would've been the thinking man's play, so GW would never go for it.

Eh. From a business point of view, there is a lot of sense behind this latest move from GW. But, in what should be quite a personal company, it would be nice to see some balancing between business and retaining loyal customers, the latter aiding the former. Whilst I have no doubt this move will be successful, I'd rather see GW try and get its money from old players rather than by continuously trying to extract money from people starting games and armies.

They're trying to copy the success of WMH, without understand what actually makes that game popular.

 MWHistorian wrote:
They're trying to copy the success of WMH, without understand what actually makes that game popular.

It's the round bases that makes WMH so great!!!
Right??

Hey, quick question?

Do you think that there's space on the greathammer guys arms to stick mortars and bullgryn shields? I want to convert them into "counts as" bullgruns.

 Kanluwen wrote:

How many companies really release their "beta rules to the public for fine tuning it feedback"?

Prodos.

 Talys wrote:
When I first saw it, I actually thought "World of Warcraft" much more than space marines.

Well its much of a sameness. Back in the day when i was playing WoW classic, a friend said to me that my pauldrons looked like space marine pauldrons and that i looked like a space marine. Of course, they had that dwarf in the game who would say: my warhammer cost 40k. WoW or 40k, the style of armour is pretty much the same. And now so with the sigMarines, it seems. I don't find it appealing though, at least not in miniature 'fantasy' form.

 The Shadow wrote:

If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.

Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.

 insaniak wrote:

Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness... They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.

I don't know...I think "Warhammer Old World" has a certain ring to it! And a great, distinctive acronym!

I kinda sorta reminds me of the game Chronopia from way back when.

Me, too. I think the largest problem with Age of Sigmar is that the Sigmarites do not remind me of Warhammer. They have more of the aesthetic of the Lion Faction from Confrontation, or the aforementioned Chronopia.

The Chaos looks like it always does, but I'm just not getting the Warhammer "feel".

While I would rather have games set in the Old World, like Warhammer should be, I like what I have heard about the theme behind the game. I just don't like the army of hammer-wielding angels in platemail. Just changes everything way too much. It's not like they are revamping Warhammer, but starting from scratch, which is a damn shame. Even the name is like they are just trying to capitalize off the widespread nature of Wahammer game's name to prop up a new game.

 insaniak wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.

Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.

You mean like Warhammer Skirmish? Paths to Glory? Those were done, and I guess not popular enough to rework, though its what I would have preferred. So instead we get AoS. The aesthetic is growing on me, but I prefer larger battles for my warhammer fix.

And no, Kings of War is NOT an acceptable replacement for me. Tried it, don't like it at all.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:
just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.

No, full plate armor does NOT make them look automatically like Space Marines(TM). Boots, gauntlets, and shoulder plates bigger than the helmet makes them automatically look like Space Marines(TM), because that's the whole Space Marine(TM) aesthetic!

Indeed, it doesn't.

Remember these guys from 5E?


Right.

Post that picture, one of the Sigmarites, and one of a Space Marine side by side. That will make my point exquisitely clear.

Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...

TimW wrote:
Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...

That's actually what my source told me: a game similar to Space Hulk or the assassin one that just came out. Bunch of models for a stand alone game that CAN port directly into the mass battle thing when it hits.

Cruentus wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.

Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.

You mean like Warhammer Skirmish? Paths to Glory? Those were done, and I guess not popular enough to rework, though its what I would have preferred. So instead we get AoS. The aesthetic is growing on me, but I prefer larger battles for my warhammer fix.

And no, Kings of War is NOT an acceptable replacement for me. Tried it, don't like it at all.

insaniak wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

If they wanted a skirmish game to rival other similar games, they should have brought out something new entirely, something which would have attracted new players, as well as both old 40k and WHFB players, whilst GW continued to make profit on Warhammer, even if they had to scale it down (in terms of kits, shelf space etc) and stop production of some of the least popular kits.

Alternatively, they could have just released a skirmish game set in the Warhammer Old World, that woudld have allowed them to capitalise on their huge range of existing kits while adding some cool new skirmishey goodness. For example, some sort of Chaos-related calamity could have befallen a town in the Empire, and bands of rival warbands and roaming groups of other races could fight it out in the ruins. They could call it, I don't know... 'Middenheim' or something.

Perhaps Warhammer Skirmish wasn't successful because it wasn't new and shiny, or because the people who were interested in Warhammer were interested in it because of the large-scale battles. Either way, a "new" skirmish game, even if it was based on one of the existing universes (like post-end times Old World), with new models (like the Sigmar guys) would probably be more successful and, from a business point of view, more profitable, as people can't simply use their existing Warhammer models and have to buy all the new stuff.

Also seconding Cruentus' point about KoW. Whilst I haven't played the game, I don't like the look of the rules. Whilst a lot of the simplicity is appealing, it removes a lot of depth from the game and I find some of the rules plain weird. I'd be more willing to give it a shot if 8th Fantasy didn't continue in my local area, but only using my existing WHFB models. It wouldn't be something I'd like to spend a great deal of money on, no matter how nice some of the mantic models are.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

timetowaste85 wrote:

TimW wrote:
Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...

That's actually what my source told me: a game similar to Space Hulk or the assassin one that just came out. Bunch of models for a stand alone game that CAN port directly into the mass battle thing when it hits.

This'd be good. I'd really like this. And, again, it'd probably work well for GW on a business point of view, especially if they then were to bring out "proper" 9th edition later on, as people would have to buy yet more stuff. However, with all the army books removed from the shelves in GW stores, I think it's unlikely.

Guys,

Warhammer Skirmish was not a proper expansion, or even a UK studio release.
It was a marketing focus to present another way of playing Warhammer besides mass battles.
Aside from some scenarios and modeling opportunities, it WAS Warhammer.

The USA Studio wrote it as a booklet to sell Merchandising displays of Warhammer and special, limited release blisters.
The blisters (for those old enough to remember), were older classic models suited to scenery objectives, or special characterful pieces.

The only reason this was possible, was because the USA had it's own production capacity.

Only AFTER the thing was produced, and sales plans formulated did the UK Studio and Head Office acquiesce and allow the US to promote it.

Very much a "ask forgiveness instead of permission".

This may be old news, but the concept that Warhammer was a steep entry point was well-known even back then (2001-2)?

And this isn't an opinion, but fact from someone who was there...

Cheers

 timetowaste85 wrote:

TimW wrote:
Has anyone considered that Warhammer: Age of Sigmar is a different game from Warhammer Fantasy Battle and that we may still see a new edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle come out, alongside the new skirmish sized game?
Plus Age of Signar could actually be something akin to Space Hulk. A stand alone game, all inclusive. I'm just guessing here...

That's actually what my source told me: a game similar to Space Hulk or the assassin one that just came out. Bunch of models for a stand alone game that CAN port directly into the mass battle thing when it hits.

Which would have been fine if EVERY piece of WFB rules hadn't been pulled from the shelves.

If a full size WFB reboot/new edition is in the works, then GW's iron curtain of secrecy is really working against them right now. The ONLY way they'd gain any faith back from current players is if the AoS release specifically mentions what and when the full size game/rules will be.

So far the rumors about there still being a separate release and books for full size games are few and far between.

On the note of the Sigmarine mount, the issue is that it's a lizard/dragon skin draped over the shape and pose of something most commonly associated with large predatory cats. At a glance, the pose doesn't look like anything lizard like at all.

There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.

Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.

That;s the bizarre thing, I really hope these 'doing it for the IP' rumours are completely wrong.. because otherwise.. GW has utterly failed.
Nothing in that boxed set would seem to grant them better IP protection than anything else they have ever released.. in fact it seems even more derivative than some of their more recent releases and would be harder to claim in a IP case.

migooo wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I kinda sorta reminds me of the game Chronopia from way back when.

Except those figures were you know, fun.

In the rules made the game strategic.

I should get this miniature and convert it to Sigmarstein!

 Azreal13 wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

 obleeke wrote:
Gotta love the weapons variety for those sigmarines. You can choose between a hammer, hammer and shield, two hammers, or a big hammer

Surely you mean Sigmarian Hurricane Hammers and Sigmaritarian Lightning Shields of Stormy Electrocution.

I think you'll find they're Storm Hammers and Thunder Shields!

Well, I guess now there's a reason why they call it Warhammer...

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.

Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.

Possibly less we'll be able to protect this than: players will think your Perry historical War of the Roses miniatures don't look as cool as armored angels as they did as alternative empire troops.

I am actually really bothered by this. God I hope this is not 9th and just some crap like epic. I do not like the idea of mid evil silver/gold/steel smiths. Dwarfs could do it kinda but not well, humans barly these guys seem to have better get then people in 40k......... also by the looks of things they are like robot wings not flesh....so they can make robotics......

the age of sigmar where dinos fight robots....... all we need now is throw in some skulls, winged men and steampunk crap and they got every cliche thing around.

posted on my blog http://www.thefieldsofblood.com/

Local retailer received this:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Set

•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
•Recreate the first battle in the Age of Sigmar as the Stormcast Eternals battle the Khorne Goretide to open a Realmgate!
•47 incredibly detailed plastic miniatures; 18 Stormcast Eternals and 29 Warriors of Khorne.
•96 page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book and 4 page rules sheet.
•12 dice, 2 range rulers and 2 Transfer Sheets.
•Totally new beginning for Warhammer miniatures.
•The new miniatures in the starter box are some of the best we have ever done, some will slot straight into existing collections, while the new Stormcast Eternals are going to inspire customers to start new armies.

So the Sigmarines are Stormcast Eternals

Well if I'm going to buy this (but most likely I won't) I'm gonna use the Sigmarites as conversion fodder for Basilea of KoW. Mantic may have good rules, but god knows their Basilean line looks funny in a very weird way.

Whoever came up with "Realmgate" needs to be fired.

privateer4hire wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
There's a quite cynical air to these releases that gives the impression all this was done for the sake of their IP, as regular fantasy figures don't give them enough exclusivity. They seem to have binned an entire game system because they don't want to make armies with knights and elves in anymore because other people can too.

Honestly I don't like what I've seen. It looks like another generic fantasy type thing that's sprung up and I tend to skim over, it doesn't excite me or feel very warhammer. The Sigmar warriors just look a lot like Scibor's spartans.

Possibly less we'll be able to protect this than: players will think your Perry historical War of the Roses miniatures don't look as cool as armored angels as they did as alternative empire troops.

And what happens when someone decides Sigmarines are too expensive and decides to use cheap historical Greeks? Or when half a dozen companies in southern & eastern Europe all put out variations on not-Sigmarines? Or when folk just proxy in the Sanguinary Guard models they already own? If folk were using Perry historicals already odds are their primary concern is value rather than aesthetic or scale, so "but it's not as THE AWESUMZ as Sigmarine Superangels!" is unlikely to sway their purchasing habits.

The only reason GW think these kinds of moves will allow them a more protectable stance on IP is because they don't understand IP law, and the only reason the don't understand why it's not going to stop people using third-party models and proxies is because they cannot fathom the idea that their product is not completely price inelastic.

 PLC wrote:
posted on my blog http://www.thefieldsofblood.com/

Local retailer received this:

Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Set

•The most awesome Starter Set Games Workshop has ever produced!
•Recreate the first battle in the Age of Sigmar as the Stormcast Eternals battle the Khorne Goretide to open a Realmgate!
•47 incredibly detailed plastic miniatures; 18 Stormcast Eternals and 29 Warriors of Khorne.
•96 page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book and 4 page rules sheet.
•12 dice, 2 range rulers and 2 Transfer Sheets.
•Totally new beginning for Warhammer miniatures.
•The new miniatures in the starter box are some of the best we have ever done, some will slot straight into existing collections, while the new Stormcast Eternals are going to inspire customers to start new armies.

So the Sigmarines are Stormcast Eternals

If this is true, the 96 page rulebook is the important bit.

 docdoom77 wrote:


If this is true, the 96 page rulebook is the important bit.

Crucially it is not called a rulebook....