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Hey guys another Tactica
This one will be on Elites, hope you find it helpful and if you want to discuss something I talk about then feel free to comment.
Lets get to it

Ymgarl Genestealers: They nightmares of every living creature... these bad boys have a reputation.
Ymgarls are is a nutshell, Stealers on Drugs. They have 4+sv instead of a 5+ for a start, this is huge against marines and their pesky bolters.
Also Ymgarls have the ability to alter their form, this is represented by every assault phase, the Ymgarls may choose either +1 to attacks, +1 to strength, or +1 to Toughness. As a counter, you may not use the same morph twice in a row. Now this is great, as the mighty Ymgarls can overwhelm a foe with attacks and Rending hits, OR can go tank hunting, OR can survive the first round of combat and wait for backup.
Now this is all great, but can you get them into combat, well if people know what they are then they will be a pile of biomass round 1.
HOWEVER! A Ymgarl brood can elect to start the game inside a piece of terrain in a "dormant" state; This means that you enter the game following the rules of deepstrike but MUST choose a piece of terrain for them to hide in at the beginning of the game (and so deep strike into the Terrain) with this said you can ASSAULT and you come outa deepstrike. IT'S AMAZING!
for only 23points, I would say that Ymgarls get a wonderful A+

Pyrovores: ok seriously, wtf is the point in them?!?
These things are USELESS!!!
They get a 4+ sv, T4 and 2 wounds. (oooo so scary) -_-
Also all they get is a powerweapon, WITH ONE ATTACK >:[
and a weak flamer.
Only great thing is the model, it looks SWEET! I would use it as a biovore, (If i ever used a biovore xD)
C-

Zoanthropes: F.E.A.R (F***. Everything. And. Run) yep these guys are straight up bad ass, sure only 1 shot, and you need a physic test.
BUT you hit on a 3+ with a Str10 AP1 Lance. (at range 18in) this weapon is MIGHTY, haha Im sorry, was that smoking crater a Landraider?
People say, "well yeah, but they have only 18in range and need to get close" Yeah well you know they have 2wounds and a 3+sv right?. They are a PAIN to kill. So if they get blown apart, Oh well, the rest of your army gets closer and closer. WIN
And for 60points, they are pretty good.
I give em a nice A-

Hive Guard: Ok guys ENOUGH. People love em, omg they get 2 shots, and no test and they are Str 8 without LOS!! big deal, they are ap 4.
This means things like Marines will still get their save, the double strength only means that if they fail a save then they suffer instant death.
So you get and luck cannon that is only good against light armour tanks, unless you want some easy killpoints like Rhinos, these guys are a waste of points and time, however they can be handy if you need some fire support then sure with their 24in range.
But for 45points, your running a unit that can either do ok or nothing.
B

Deathleaper: This girls nasty, she's a super lictor with awesome special rules. This guys has so many bits and bobs, bells and whistles that I dont have time to right it all out, but basically, she can lower a units leadership, stop peps from shooting her, rend on a 5+, making people in cover move slower and the ability to vanish off the field!
Her biggest problem is the deepstrike, because of her reputation for being a butcher, people will blow her apart on sight. To counter this, put her far away from people on DS and in cover, then use her speed and MTC to get to her prey.
for 140Points and a last minute objective con-tester. She is worth every point.
A

Doom of Malan'tai: Ah the big bad bug that started a riot
By now most people should know his painful special rule that started the giant Debate.
In a nutshell, all units within 6in of him in every shooting phase (including your foes) must pass a leadership test on 3d6, if failed. well, you lose a wound for every point failed by, with no armour saves allowed! it's amazing.
Then he has his grand cannon, which is a weapon with str equal to to his wounds, Also the Doom gains wounds for every unsaved wound he causes. It, is, powerful.
However he is only T4 with a 3+inv save, so an unsaved krakrocket will turn him into a stain.
But for only 90points?!?
A+!!

Venomthrope: these guys are cool, all the do (that's any help) is give any unit near them (6in) a 5+cover save. This is great for Lictors or rippers as that becomes a 4+ due to their stealth and swarm abilities.
so I like them, even though they don't need to fight, the Thropes always wounds on a 2+ no matter what. So that's nice to.
So for 55points they do well, but personally I don't need em, just not useful in my army. But they are good.
B

Lictor: Lictors are great, if they are on the field for a full turn (or the start) then your gain +1 to Deep Strikers etc and you any deepstriking unit can hit 6in within a lictor and not scatter! Great for Thropes in Spores
And the are FAST, with their fleet and MTC, so Lictors hold a strong place in my heart
They are quick and deadly and not bad at tank hunting. Their only flaw is that they cant charge out of deepstrike and only have a 5+sv which is low. Just keep em in cover as they have stealth
Soooo A- just because of their low armour save

And that's another nid 5th edition tactica!

A few things:

Ymgarls and lictors don't follow the rules for DS.
Hive guard are not 45pts.

I don't think this is really a tactica, just some personal opinions, and honestly it's nothing that hasn't been said before. Also, for some personal opinions of my own...

Hive guard aren't as underpowered as you think. Now of course it depends on what your local meta is, but in a competitive environment mech is common. Opening up transports is their primary purpose, and it's a pretty important one seeing how the majority of the codex focusses on anti-infantry. Zoanthropes are nice for sure, but they can be locked down by psychic hoods and the like quite easily. Also take into account they will really only get one round of shooting in before they are eliminated. So 3 broods of 3 can reliably take out 3 tanks. Hive guard do the same for cheaper, get more shots and are more likely to be on the table for another go next turn.

Lictors aren't really bad, it's just that they are outclassed in a slot that puts some much needed ranged anti-tank into the nid fOC chart.

Well, gonna have to do some agreeing and disagreeing with you here.

Ygmarl Genesteals: They are one of my favorite elite choices that I don't use too often. Elites are always a hard choice to pick for because there are usually many great options. These guys are one of them for the reasons you stated.
Grade: A

Pyrovores: Agreed. Wouldn't waste money on this model.
Grade: D

Zoanthropes: This is where I'm going to have to start disagreeing. They are an amazing unit, but are easily killed. Sure, they have two wounds but if one STR 8 weapon gets through they are toast. We have the +3 invun, but that doesn't mean they will last. They are usually the target once they hit the table. Not to mention once they are in melee they become worthless and because they need to be at such a close range for their ranged attack, they end up in combat fairly quickly.
Grade: B-

Hive Guard: THEE ELITE CHOICE. People love them for a reason, 2 shots at STR 8 and we don't need LoS? HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG? They also have a longer range on their weapons than the Zoans and can hide behind a wall and shoot from there. Sure, it's only AP 4, but you better not be using these guys for shooting at anything except vehicles unless none are in range or there are none left.
Grade: A+

Deathleaper: Overrated. The special rules are nice and are the only reason this model is worth taking. Unless you place him in the perfect spot however, it dies pretty quickly. Would be nice to get this guy in close combat but that rarely happens (In my experiences) because it gets shot the hell before it gets to move. It is nice against Eldar with lowing the LD and all.
Grade: C

DOOM of Malan'tai: At one point was my favorite elite only because there was a chance that it could effect models inside vehicles. Now that isn't the case anymore and it's pretty much lowered this model from greatness to sub-par. Great ability in it's leech life and Cataclysm. But at T4 all those wounds you gain from leech life means nothing with just one las cannon shot.
Grade: B

Denomthrope: I like this guy. At first I was a bit skeptical about using him because the +5 cover save it provides to it's allies didn't seem all that impressive. Then one day at a local tournament I decided to run swarm against a SM player. Boy that +5 cover save kept more stuff alive that otherwise would not even have been allowed a save. This guy makes up for the lack of invun saves this army should have gotten.
Grade: B+

Lictors: They are alright. But I can never keep these guys alive long enough to do anything useful. Sigh, and the model just looks so cool.

Grade: C-

To be honest, I can't really agree with much in the OP.

I like both hive guards and venomthropes. Hive Guards are amongst the best transport poppers and should only really fire at marines if you really really doesn't have anything else to fire at.
Venomthropes are great force multipliers, if they survive.

I don't agree with ymgrals and the doom. Ymgrals doesn't really do much more than Stealers with sacs in combat, and take up a elite slot. They can be good but isn't worthy of a A+.
The doom...died with the faq, cover and no mech popping hurts. Also, he brings anti infantry in a codex which is ripe with it...not an A+ (!)

Not really a tactica. It's pretty much a rant on opinion of types of units. And a poor one at that. I'd say playtest more and know the codex better before posting a "tactica" since there are quite a few plain mistakes in what you wrote.

I second Hulksmash, this is barely a tactica if one at all IMHO.

Also, I find Zoanthropes to be over-rated due to their reliance on deep strike, short range and potential to be nullified.
For me, most Choices in the elite FoC should be of a ratio of 2:1 units of Hive Guard, meaning you take two units of hive guard and one other, such as Zoanthropes, Ymgarls etc.
Hive Guard provide some reliable anti-armour against all but the toughest tanks which any MC's can clean up anyway.

Just Dave wrote:For me, most Choices in the elite FoC should be of a ratio of 2:1 units of Hive Guard, meaning you take two units of hive guard and one other, such as Zoanthropes, Ymgarls etc.

I think that is spot on. I always take two units of Hivers and one other with any non-reserve tyranid list. Zoanthropes work best when you do a full air assault list with everything starting in reserves.

Read the "tactica" but not the comments below. Just wanted to put in my opinion...

I voted HG and Ymargl as the best. This "tactica" seems more like just opinions...Hive Guard do not need LOS and can stand behind cliffs/ mountains and fire and it does NOT give cover saves. This is amazing. They can move 6" and shoot still since nothing in our Codex is Heavy which gives you a little leeway for side shots. They are also 50 pts not 45...these should always be taken in pairs or maxed in 3s. At least 2 units per list is the most competitive way to play against all the mech out there. You say it's "just a Rhino" your killing but what else are you going to do to the Rhino? Let him shoot you down while you try to CC it to death? Shot S6 shots at it and go for 5 glance 6 pen instead of 3 glance 4+ pen? These are the most cost effective and best unit to take in our Elite slot.

Ymargls are just awesome

Zoans are not as good as you think IMO. This is an opinion. HG being the best is fact. Zoans need to pass LD (low chance to fail, but remember some armies make you take it on 3d6..), then you have to pass whatever psychic defense your opponent has (which they will have in a competitive environment), then you have to hit (good chance to hit but still a 33% chance to fail), and finally for av12+ you need a 2 to glance 3+ to pen which is great but you can still roll 1's.

That's A LOT of hoops you have to jump through...I don't like them :/

If you do not take a unit of Hivegaurd, it means one of two things:

1) You have three units of Zoans in Spods.

2) You're doing it wrong.

The Hive Gaurd is hands down the best choice in elites. The "Can-opener Cannon" serves the vital function of being an effective way to pop transports before the Horde Reaches them. Nothing else the 'Nids have has this ability.

Easily the #1 for Elites, and probably no worse than #2 in the whole codex.

As a DE player, the only 'Nid Elite choice that really concerns me is the Hive Guard. Each unit of 3 pretty much guarantees a dead Raider each turn, and it's hard to be in range with the Raider's contents (whether shooting or assaulting) without spending a round of shooting in range of the HG.

now if only they had lance for 10 more points....

Gibbsey wrote:now if only they had lance for 10 more points....

Lol...OP!

syypher wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:now if only they had lance for 10 more points....

Lol...OP!

I can dream cant I? for me at least they would be an auto take.

The biggest problem with Zoeys/Lictors/Ymgarls is that they compete with Hive Guard for Elites.

Too bad Bugs didn't get either Zoeys or HG in FA. Then you could really make a mean list, but oh well. Bugs are still tough.

But yeah, ditto what others have said. HG are where its at if you are only going to take one unit. I personally take HG/Zoeys and Ymgarls as that gives me the most flexibility, but taking 9 HG is rock solid.

When I fill out my elites, which as a 'Nid player, you NEED to fill out your elites choices. I do so with 2 units of Hive Guard, and one unit of Zoeys. After all, I don't want lascannon Land Raiders shooting at my HG! Podded Zoanthropes(3) to a Land-Raider is amazing, and often times leaves my opponent with an open can of his 250 Pts.

Then again, with that unit only being 30 Pts. below the cost of that LR, and with them rarely surviving that turn, it's a hit/miss scenario.

Personally, I think the combination of HG/Zoanthropes is amazing, as HG just don't have the hitting power to deal with AV 14, and Zoanthropes just don't last long enough to kill all the little stuff. Thus the two fit together well, filling in where the other lacks.

Oh, and you can always drop your pod next to the raider... No matter where it scatters, it will always be in range, unless there's a massive wall between you and it...

Wow lots on feedback
Yeah sorry about the post, It was quite late at night and I was almost dead xD
Now, I see all the great things about Hiveguard, their str8, no LOS,AP4 :(, and have 2 shots at 24in range, it's all great but.
All they can reeeeally kill is light armoured tanks. Rhinos and Raider etc. I mean, sure on a 6 you can glance a Monolith or Landraider. But what's the point in that. I've played many games and I have tried HG ALOT, (mainly because of what people tell me) I can normally get 2 may be 3 rhinos out of em which is GREAT 3 kill-points. BUT I often I play the Necrons and encounter a Monolith that then blows em apart and soon after blows apart my troops with the aid of tonnes of warriors because I didn't have my 3 zoanthropes warp blasting them at 24in Range and then popping the monolith with a lance :/.
I feel like the black sheep for not taking a liking to HG but hey, I just cant get a feel for em. As for the prob with doom. FAQ was decided that units in vehicles are not affected, and units on foot do not get cover saves as it is not a shooting attack. sooooo for only 90points! your getting a unit that can wipe out just about any non mech unit. And yes I know he's a 1shot go, then get squished unit. But you get to kill so much in that 1 turn for only 90points!
But hey, we all think something different, this is probably not my best tactica but oh well.
I enjoy your guys feedback and thank you all for commenting

The game is local and if HG don't work for you then use what does.

But, if you are having trouble against Necrons you may want to seriously reconsider your list and or tactics. Crons are terrible in 5th, and their biggest weakness is to CC, where Bugs shine.

my list works against everyone apart from crons :/and I have to disagree with you on crons I reckon their pretty good

Well, you are free to hold whatever opinion you choose, but Crons are widely considered to be the worst army in the game right now for a number of reasons. Maybe the gentleman playing them in your area is exceptionally good, I don't know. However I do know that in all but very rare circumstances, if I see a Cron army across from me I know it is going to be a very easy, very short game. Also, I have not seen a Cron army do even remotely well in any tournaments since 5th ed came out apart from the UKGT last year in which a Cron player took 3rd, which absolutely blew me away. He used a close combat build and I would love to hear how he played the list. But at any rate, that is the one shinning light I have seen in the global tournament world of Crons doing anything but sucking.

what did he have? multiple monoliths? destroyers? wraiths? if he has massed warriors go for phase out and just wreck em, attacking the monolith is not usually how you win

Reecius I see what your saying and agree, crons have lost the ability to wreak on glancing and so are less effective also due to phase out. My only Problem with crons is if I take HG, HG are only good IMHO as light tank hunters, which is something crons don't have xD
Only Super heavy.
I can't wait for the new Cron codex as I might start playing them twill be the second army

Gibbsey: I don't know what the loadouts are but I can give you what i do know.
HQ was a Lord on some skimmer thingy with a Scythe and res orb.
And a Nightbringer

Troops: 3 Squads of 15 Warriors.

Elite: Pariahs x5

Fast attack? Destroyers x10

Monolith :(
and some blood covered dudes with big knives.


My guys moved up turn 1, Hive Guard got range and fired at the lith hoping for anything. did nothing

His turn 1 he shattered my gaunts with the lith and warriors.

Turn 2 I moved up (almost in melee thanks to fleet) and Guard fired at troops which I found out to be a mistake as they bounced off the metal skeletons.

Turn 2 for him, he shot my Tyrant and Guard with loads of stuff then charged with Lord/Pariahs and I took a few with me then imploded.

My turn 3 I moved, fired at Lith again with HG, got Immobile. Then charged with every thing else. (which was very few dudes at this stage).

his Turn 4 he summons the blood covered guys behind me, then shoots me to bits and charges rest with Lord and last 2 Pariahs.

I had no way of winning the game, and it was late so we called it xD

Two pairs of Hive Guard pretty much won me a game tonight, taking out three Land Speeders, a Chimera, and a Rhino.

I've played necrons a few times and they are a JOKE to beat. Their lack of AP3 and high strength weapons makes Monstrous creatures practically untouchable, so abuse that to your advantage.

Looks like you are playing a 2500ish point game from what you listed.

Goal is phase out, kill warriors, flayed ones and destroyers;
Hive guard should be target destroyers. The S8 attacks won't ignore their saves, true, but they DO inflict instant death, so unless they have the rez orb in range they don't get a WBB save.
Poison rapes Nightbringer. Genestealers, Warriors, gants and gargs will roll it off the table.
Your 3-5 Monstrous creatures should focus on ripping up the warriors and destroyers.
Any chance you get you should try to explode his lord. Throw the kitchen sink at him, as he's the corner stone of his army.
Ignore the monolith unless you have Zoans, then use those to explode it if you get the chance. Expect the zoans to get torrented by destroyers though.
Flayed ones are a joke and can be rolled by any decent combat unit. Think assault marines but slow. Stealers, and monstrous creatures are optimal here.

Hive Guard are great for melting medium and light vehicles, Necrons don't provide then with many optimal targets, but they cost the SAME as destroyers, so only need to kill 3 to pay their points balance. You want to target the "most points killed per shot % wise" unit for them. Destroyers cost 3 times what a warrior does and is wounded equally easily, not difficult to determine best targets for them. If you lost to Necrons, he was just a vastly more experienced player.

haha tis helpful thanks. xD

Carnage43 wrote:

Hive guard should be target destroyers. The S8 attacks won't ignore their saves, true, but they DO inflict instant death, so unless they have the rez orb in range they don't get a WBB save.

IIRC Destroyers are base toughness 5 so the Hive Guard's guns do not cause Instant Death. probably still worth shooting at them though as if you can knock down a whole squand and there isn't another Destroyer model or rez orb near by they wont get their WBB save.

Cheers,
~Volkan

And would ya look at that, my post has tuned into a tactica after all xD

*matthewbland282* wrote:And would ya look at that, my post has tuned into a tactica after all xD

Lol, and definatly dont shoot the monolith with the hive guard... Its impossible to glance it to death anyway (all weapon destroyed give -1 to their D6 12" attack) and the Teleport/Large Blast cannot be removed (so it can still teleport or fire but you can make the 12" attack useless). Like he said focus on the destroyers and the warriors. The flayed ones (guys with claws) and pariah are notoriously bad. (Take out flayed ones but leave pariah's they dont count towards the necron phase out). Necrons are the only army where you can ignore the really tough units and still table them

Volkan wrote:

Carnage43 wrote:

Hive guard should be target destroyers. The S8 attacks won't ignore their saves, true, but they DO inflict instant death, so unless they have the rez orb in range they don't get a WBB save.

IIRC Destroyers are base toughness 5 so the Hive Guard's guns do not cause Instant Death. probably still worth shooting at them though as if you can knock down a whole squand and there isn't another Destroyer model or rez orb near by they wont get their WBB save.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Yeah, my bad. They are T5. I must be remembering old school destroyers or just going off of space marine bikes that are T5 but T4 for instant death purposes.

You ain't remembering old school Destroyers. Those were light skimmers.