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So with Christmas done and my birthday right around the corner, my good wife has hinted at a new army for me. With dark Eldar being the army I learned to play the game with, I have a feeling her and my buddies are gonna be chipping in to buy me a force. That and I play Vassal, so a good list is always welcome.

What I got is in white, explanation is in yellow. Not being the best modeler, and going off of what can be bought, I've left out units that have to be custom made.

Kabal of the Shattered Soul
1850

HQ
Archon Kal'thiss- Blaster, Ghostplate armor (85)

ELITE
Kabalite Trueborn- 9 men, 2 w/Blaster, 2 w/Splinter Cannon, plasma grenades (167)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
These guys are gonna hang back with my Archon and blow enemy armor into the next century. I've pondered making it a quick melee reaction force, but I like to keep my distance if at all possible

TROOPS
Warrior Squad A- 10 men, 1 w/darklance, (115)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
Warrior Squad B- 10 men, 1 w/darklance, (115)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
Warrior Squad C- 10 men, 1 w/darklance, (115)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
Warrior Squad D- 10 men, 1 w/darklance, (115)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
Warrior Squad E- 10 men, 1 w/darklance, (115)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
Pretty self explanatory. They fly around and shoot up units taking objectives, then if need be dash in last moment to capture or contest

FAST ATTACK
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (76)
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (76)
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (76)
They seemed like a good speartip to take out big threats early on

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Sit back and pop transports and TDA


I'm open to new ideas, and I'm not sure if I have too much AA, but in my last army not having enough was an issue. I haven't played DE in 6 years, so I have alot of ground to re-cover and not alot of time to do it in

Not sure whats with all the splinter racks. Rather swap them for flickerfields. Archon doesnt look like he's contributing much besides being an 85 point blaster. Maybe get something cheaper such as a haemoculus with a liquefier and then bumping up the blaster count in the trueborn. Maybe switch dark lances in the troops for blasters but thats my personal preference, I dont like being too static with my warriors. Perhaps swap a reaver's clusters with a heat lance for a surprise anti tank unit

I don't have my codex in front of me but I think your Reaver squads actually come out to 86 points per squad.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote: Kabal of the Shattered Soul

That's awesome, my Kabal was originally called that as well. Now I am honor bound to aid you. Let's see what thoughts I can give - thanks for including strategy notes, it saves me the effort of trying to guess at the purpose behind units which helps me focus on what you're going for. Nice touch .

HQ
Archon Kal'thiss- Blaster, Ghostplate armor (85)

ELITE
Kabalite Trueborn- 9 men, 2 w/Blaster, 2 w/Splinter Cannon, plasma grenades (167)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
These guys are gonna hang back with my Archon and blow enemy armor into the next century. I've pondered making it a quick melee reaction force, but I like to keep my distance if at all possible

I have to admit that I dislike this build immensely and I think it's the biggest WTF in the list. You're trying to make them a multi purpose anti-mech, assault, gunboat and really you're failing at all three while spending more than you need to. Let's look at the focus here and consider;

2 Blasters (3 with the Archon) for popping armor 18" or less away
2 Splinter Cannons for being good at killing infantry 24" or less away
Splinter Racks (which will only help 5 guys shooting splinter rifles) which helps kill infantry
A plasma grenade upgrade (because this unit would want to assault...what? I would be nervous about engaging Eldar Rangers quite frankly, this is a weak as sin h2h unit - the Archon doesn't even have a bonus attack from an extra pistol/CCW much less a power weapon. I think a Tac combat squad could win in the assault vs. these guys)

Okay, first off, you need to decide if you're assault or not. If you're not assault then you can save money by dropping the grenades and not needing to get the archon a decent h2h weapon so he's useful (at the moment he's generating 5 Str 3 hits on the charge that allow armor saves - whoop dee doo he's like 3 guardsmen with better initiative).

Next, let's consider an alternate plan to do what you're doing here - you have 3 blasters, 2 splinter cannons and are paying around 250 for it. I know you aren't looking to model much, but frankly you could buy an Eldar Vyper and just stick some extra DE bits onto it and get yourself this;

Archon - Agoniser and Ghostplate
4 Trueborn - 3 blasters
Venom - flickerfields and Splinter Cannon upgrade

That saves you almost 100 points on the squad and costs you only 5 extra for the Archon. You can now also move 12" every turn if you want to bust up infantry and don't have to get close to them, and will have a 5+ invulnerable save if you want to slow down and shoot armor. Plus now your Archon can actually win some assaults for you, and could even seperate from the squad and run off on his own to go fight someone if you wished.

If you refuse to deal with building a Venom then I would suggest considering dropping the Archon altogether and buying a Haemonculi with either a Liquifier (my suggestion) or a Hexrifle (lesser suggestion - and would require some conversion). The Archon is pretty much useless to you right now, and the Haemy would be cheaper and could help the squad in their gunboat duties. You could still buy up an extra blaster from the Trueborn squad if you wished. The Haemy also gives the squad a pain token for free, and FNP is a great ability to have for really any squad (though it is better for assault units, but, hey, he's still cheaper than the Archon.

I'd also probably drop the Torment grenade launcher for Flickerfields - flickerfields will be useful to you *every time you're fired at or assaulted*. The Torments are okay if you're assaulted and have some benefits if you're building an army around forcing leadership tests (which you are not)

TROOPS
Warrior Squad A-E- 10 men, 1 w/darklance, (115)
Raider w/splinter racks, Torment Grenade Launchers (75)
Pretty self explanatory. They fly around and shoot up units taking objectives, then if need be dash in last moment to capture or contest

These do not look like they're built to be what you're building them for. You look like you're designing a gunline build and planning to play it as a gunboat build. Splinter racks and torments are good when you're up in an opponent's fact, and lances are good when you're sitting back shooting. If I want mixed use Raiders I tend to prefer buying a Blaster/S.Cannon combo as then they can always move and shoot everything.

I would advise that you switch out some of these to a Blaster/S.Cannon combo (I personally used to run my DE army as 2 boats with lances and 4 boats with the combo and it worked very well, you should adjust yours to a personal taste, considering local meta for how much armor you'll see, and also for what you can manage to afford points wise). The Gunboats can then be mobile and hurt the enemy by being aggressive towards distant objectives and hunting infantry and disembarked passengers. The lance squads can sit back, not moving, and unleash a hail of lance fire to pop transports and disable tanks. Sniper boats are also great fro snagging objectives on the last turn by moving flat out.

I would honestly drop all the splinter racks for flickerfields as they are much better for you - and frankly the tormentors aren't that useful either unless you're building for them.

FAST ATTACK
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (76)
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (76)
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (76)
They seemed like a good speartip to take out big threats early on

If by big threats you mean, rip up infantry units, then yes, they are good. They're not great, but really they're such a fun unit to play I have a hard time dissing you for your choice. I would point out that it would be very easy to drop one of these to help get some more points to play around with beefing up other squads. Personally even if you wanted to change nothing else, I'd drop two of these to buy a unit of Wyches in a Raider, which is an amazing tool and will also give you a unit that can actually lock down enemy assault units.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Sit back and pop transports and TDA

Ravagers were good in the old dex and remain good in this one. Can't go wrong here.

Hope that all helps.

Thor, Splinter Cannons are 36" range now. They went and screwed around with "parts" of existing weapons to make things harder to learn for the old DE players.

Other than that, Thor's advice is golden.


Kymera, correct on the reavers squad costs.

Hmmm, yeah, they were always 36", that error was just me getting muddled as I was typing up info about the rifles at the same time.

Me am brain work sometime.

OK, took alot of Thor's advice, and played a few games, and altered my list based off of what I learned from the experiences. Once again, my thoughts are in yellow


Kabal of the Shattered Soul
1849 points

HQ
Archon Kal'thiss- Huskblade, Ghostplate armor, Soul Trap (115)
I need more assault units, and I refuse to get rid of my Archon, so I pumped him out to be killy

ELITE
Incubi- 3 men + Klaivex w/Demiklaives
Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies (188)
To replace the earlier Trueborn, if I'm going to have an assault Archon, I'm going to have an assault posse to go with. As suggested by Thor earlier, I can put spikey bits on a Vyper (didn't think of that before, actually)

TROOPS
Warrior Squad A- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Warrior Squad B- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Warrior Squad C- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Warrior Squad D- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Wych Squad A- 10 men, 2 w/hydra gauntlets
Raider w/grisly trophies (180)
Wych Squad B- 10 men, 2 w/hydra gauntlets
Raider w/grisly trophies (180)
Going off of 2 of Thor's ideas, I replaced the lances with assault weapons and put flickerfields on the Raiders. I also put up 2 squads of Wyches, and gave their Raiders grisly trophies because I don't expect them to be more then 6" from it, and even if I cant win the assault, I can use them to tarpit

FAST ATTACK
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (86)
other then correcting the price and dropping 2 of the squads, not much has changed. They are my quick arrow to use early on, they aren't expected to finish the battle alive

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Lots of firepower makes me happy

What's with the spam lists these days? Variety is the spice of life!

Phototoxin wrote:What's with the spam lists these days? Variety is the spice of life!

Unfortunately spam lists are generally better than non-spam lists. The basic logic is - if something is good then it is worth taking more than one. By the time you take two, wouldn't three be better? So on and so forth. Variety is for when you are trying things out or simply playing for amusement - spam is for competitive.

If you have a competitive DE list that doesn't spam one or two units 3+ times I'd love to see it so I could give it a whirl. I'm suspicious I'll decide it would be better with a bit more spam, but I'd still love to see it

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:HQ
Archon Kal'thiss- Huskblade, Ghostplate armor, Soul Trap (115)
I need more assault units, and I refuse to get rid of my Archon, so I pumped him out to be killy

ELITE
Incubi- 3 men + Klaivex w/Demiklaives
Venom w/Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies (188)
To replace the earlier Trueborn, if I'm going to have an assault Archon, I'm going to have an assault posse to go with. As suggested by Thor earlier, I can put spikey bits on a Vyper (didn't think of that before, actually)

Two quick thoughts here;
1. With the Archon you have Ld 10 - you have 5 men in assault, by the time you lose an assault to the point that you'll be needing a re-roll to stay stuck in, will it even matter?
2. I'd probably invest in a Shadowfield (and drop Ghostplate) or add a Clone field to your Archon. Ghostplate alone is slim protection in my opinion.
3. (okay, three thoughts) For your top o' the line assault option it is pretty ballsy to decide you won't need plasma grenades with them. A big part of the cost for DE is paying for our awesome I stat - don't toss it away needlessly.

TROOPS
Warrior Squad A- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)

This is a solid little build, lots of anti-tank and anti-infantry in one slot. I approve.

Wych Squad A- 10 men, 2 w/hydra gauntlets
Raider w/grisly trophies (180)
Wych Squad B- 10 men, 2 w/hydra gauntlets
Raider w/grisly trophies (180)
Going off of 2 of Thor's ideas, I replaced the lances with assault weapons and put flickerfields on the Raiders. I also put up 2 squads of Wyches, and gave their Raiders grisly trophies because I don't expect them to be more then 6" from it, and even if I cant win the assault, I can use them to tarpit
I'm actually a bit more in favor of the trophies here - though I rarely am still within 6" of a Raider when I assault with my Wyches.
As a consideration; though they look less awesome, razorflails are statistically superior to hydra gauntlets against pretty much any opponent unless the gauntlets roll a 5-6. On a 1-3 razorflails are better and on a 4 they are about equal. Just a consideration for if you prefer to be a gambling man or want more consistency from the unit.
Also, I think going in without a Hekatrix w. Agoniser is a big mistake - that will make the unit much more viable in dealing with MEQ targets. Basically I'd either decide you just want them to tarpit, in which case you could save points by taking no HGs and drop a few wyches off each squad - or decide you want them to be a solid threat, in which case the Agoniser really is a must the same way a Powerklaw is a must for Orc assault troops.

FAST ATTACK
Reavers- x3 reavers, 1 w/cluster caltrops (86)
other then correcting the price and dropping 2 of the squads, not much has changed. They are my quick arrow to use early on, they aren't expected to finish the battle alive

You have the right mindset here. I'd probably rather have a blaster/heatlance than caltrops, as I think your assault elements and splinter weaponry can deal with light infantry better for you than the RJBs will - but that's a value call.

@Thor- Archon comes with plasma grenades, didn't need to buy them, and I only got the Grisly Trophy because I had 5 points to spend, and it would look cool on the Venom.

Ill play around with it a bit more, try to fit the Shadowfield in there somewhere and fix the Wyches up a bit more

Staying with the Reavers current loadout, if I don't drop them altogether Id rather charge into a platoon of guardsmen with 14 I6 attacks then charge a tank with only 1 Blaster.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, heres the changes in red:


Kabal of the Shattered Soul
1848 points

HQ
Archon Kal'thiss- Huskblade, Soul Trap, Shadowfield (135)

ELITE
Incubi- 3 men + Klaivex w/Demiklaives
Venom w/Splinter Cannon, nightshields (193)

TROOPS
Warrior Squad A- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Warrior Squad B- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Warrior Squad C- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Warrior Squad D- 10 men, 1 w/blaster, 1 w/splinter cannon
Raider w/flickerfield (180)
Wych Squad A- 10 men, 2 w/razorflails, Hekatrix w/agoniser
Raider w/grisly trophies (210)
Wych Squad B- 10 men, 2 w/razorflails, Hekatrix w/agoniser
Raider w/grisly trophies (210)


HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)
Ravager- Night Shields (115)

I axed the Reavers for now, they can be added for fluff later on

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:@Thor- Archon comes with plasma grenades, didn't need to buy them

Don't have time to consider everything - but the focus of what I was talking about there was on the Incubi. They don't have grenades. You can give the Archon the grenade launcher to hook them up.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:@Thor- Archon comes with plasma grenades, didn't need to buy them, and I only got the Grisly Trophy because I had 5 points to spend, and it would look cool on the Venom.

The Archon is an Independant Character. He attacks at his own initiative. The incubi will attack at their own Initiative, which will be reduced to 1 when attacking through cover without grenades since they do not come standard with them. The only way to prevent that happening with Incubi is for the Archon to purchase a Phantasm Grenade Launcher and join the Incubi. Incubi do not have an invulnerable save and just like all other Dark Eldar, has T3, meaning they die to power weapons just as easy as regular warriors. If their Iniative is a 1, then they attack last, meaning they'll get fewer attacks b/c some of them just died when they didn't hit first and you've effectively just sacrificed 22 point, 2 power weapon attack models.