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I've heard they are worthless because they are bullet magnets. But with a T8 you will need a S5 min to harm it at a 6+. IF they are useful can one be enough? Say you have 2 fire prisms for heavys. (1750-2000pt list). As a IG player i can see how a vendetta or two can take it out it one turn.

Whoever is telling you WLs are worthless is giving you very bad advice.

I run 3 in my Footdar list and in that type of list, which is less mobile than Mechdar, they are fantastic.

They are not bullet magnets because hardly anything hurts them. They soak las and melta which is great, not something I would exactly complain about.

The best build, IMO: Flamers x 2, B.Lance and EML.
Second best build, IMO: Flamers x 2, Wraithsword. This guys is a cheap, scud missile. Run him forward and force your opponent to deal with him. The works well if you take 3 and the Avavtar as you have a MC blitz coming up field.

For 155 points, the B.Lance/EML version gives you a mobile BS4 firing platform that can take down tanks. The flamers and HtH ability lets it engage units and light infantry. They also are able to tarpit units very well. The strength 10 plus being an MC means they obliterate any vehicles they get into contact with with ease. I love mine. Also, they don't require Farseer support to really shine.

As for a Vendetta taking one down in one turn? Sure it's possible but highly unlikely. The WL should have cover, it is not that difficult to get them a save.

The downsides are the dumb ass Wraithsight rule, but that is pretty easily avoidable. Also, poison weapons are terrible and ID causing weapons can ruin your day.

But, for the points, the WL brings a lot to the table in the right kind of list. Plus they look totally sweet.

great advice...but just one is ineffective? Do you have to get three for them to be useful?

Wraithlords are prone to gettng tarpitted by useless units such as guardsmen. They also have problems with only having 2 wounds, and as such suffer greatly from any form of focussed fire from autocannons, plasma, lascannons and melta. But remember, Lascannons are the only thing with a right to expect to kill them easilly, everything else is going to have a tough time.

In the end, if their a bullet magnet, their a bullet magnet, and they can pull even the heaviest fire away from other, more important units.

One can be okay. If you have a good number of skimmer tanks as well, and you're getting him cover saves where you can, he can be pretty durable. The BL/EML combo is pretty nice, here, as he gives you two BS4 S8 shots, and when he's being used in a shooty role like this it's easier to get cover saves for him.

Imo, don't take them alone. Although they are T8, Missile launchers, meltas and lascannons easily take them down. You have to play them carefully, making use of terrain and sticking close to a Spiritseer, which is kind of a disadvantage tactically.

Personally I kitted my wraithlord with EML and Wraithsword, because combat is where you want him (S10) and EML is flexible.

I know I'm going to get flak for saying this, but footdar suck. Wraithlords can be good in footdar... so in general you shouldn't take them unless you are playing footdar, which one really shouldn't unless they know what they are in for.

I wouldn't really expect them to be all that good in cc though, they get very few attacks, albeit at high strength and MC rules. Since most units can't hurt them in cc, they function more as a tarpit than anything else in cc. I would kit them out to be a hard to kill gun platform first, and use them as a counter assault unit for your footdar gunline when needed.

Generally when I face them with my armies, I ignore them completely. They are too hard to kill, and their guns and movement aren't as big as a threat as other units. So if you want a gun that is likely to last most of the game, a wraithlord isn't a bad platform for it.

look at them from the perspective of your opponent and decide from there. ex: i use scarabs in my army with disruption fields, i will use them to tie up wraithlords and even though i am S3 i can still hurt them. but on the flipside, standard marines look at em and go.... well gak. but always run more than just one. in case one gets tarpitted you still got one that will either take fire meant for your other troops or cause havoc once it reaches the enemy lines.

Jaon wrote: They also have problems with only having 2 wounds,

They have 3 wounds. I like them alot. They have a great advanatage over many other heavies in that thye can not be killed in one shot. If you take 1 you will need to play it defensively - as a bodyguard for a unit(s) that hold back. If you take 2-3, especially with a fortuned Avatar, then you can blitz the enemy with an MC wall. The best part about them is they are cheap. A carnifex starts at 160pts and a decent WL (one weapon and a sword) is 130ish. 3 of them and an Avatar runs you about 550pts and if they charge it will take a lot of fire to slow them down. Meanwhile the other 1300pts (we play 1850pt games in Chicago) will remain unscathed and can act with impunity for a while.

I like them, if your playing 1,000-1,500 one lord *should* be ok, but the closer you get to 1,500 and beyond, the more you'll need more than one.
I prefer the EML+sword combo for the versitilaty. I love my EML's... and if i pin a unit with the plasma blast i throw a little party.
Aside from the shock factor, i find they are highly useful at killing those pesky IC if the situation arises.

Wraithlords are succeptable in assault to models like a marine sarg with a power fist, you can't pick him out, and you can't kill the whole unit before he brings you down... but thats what mind war is for.

@Notabot
Haha, yes, you are going to get flak for saying Footdar suck, because they don't.

Footdar have won 3 major tournaments in the past year, including a 100+ person GT. Sucky armies don't win GTs.

My Footdar have taken all comers, including Leaf Blower IG (their worst match-up) and come out on top more often than not. I have only lost 3 games with them in a year of regular play against a wide variety of players of very good to moderate skill level and they are surprisingly good. I am not saying I am the greatest guy on earth or that Footdar are the best army in the game because neither is true, but Footdar in a skilled players hands can go toe to toe with the heavy hitting armies. A lot of people hate on them but they repeatedly do well in tournaments which is incontrovertible proof of their worth.

@OP
You can take a single WL and be fine. In fact, a good mix is 2 and 3 War Walkers or 1 and 6 Warwalkers.

If they tarpit a unit of IG, especially a big blob squad, then good! Your unit has taken a huge, stubborn scoring unit out of play that most likely costs a lot more points, that is a victory for you.

They wreck other walkers and will kick the gak out of most MC's that don't have ID attacks, as well. Go toe to toe with a Lash prince and laugh. They would you on 6's, you wound them on 2's.

MLs and Meltas do not kill them with ease, not unless you play poorly. If the WL is in cover as it should be (a fortuned Avatar is great for giving them cover if you don't have any buildings around) strength 8 weapon wound them on 4's and then they have a cover save. It should take an average of 9 to 12 of these types of weapons to take one down, which is a lot of firepower. And as others have said, they don't lose any punch as they take wounds.

As for wanting to get them into combat, I question that. They only have two attacks and as such they are more for stopping units and holding them up than actually wiping them out. Shooting is their best roll, or as a cheap, disposable bullet sponge that may hit enemy lines and act as a great disruption unit.

Well from what I understand that at least one of those GT events was a heavy comp nonstandard mission one. (Da Boyz) The others ones I don't know for sure (but probably were). They can win if the guy running them knows exactly what to do against every opponent, and they have to be more finely tuned against expected competition than most other armies. Even then you are often at the mercy of the matchups, event scenarios, and level of comp whether they will do well.

I like to think of playing footdar as "hard mode" when it comes competitive play. Either you are really good and can do well with odds stacked against you, or you have some non standard "cheat" in your favor (comp, list, scenario, and sport restrictions or just poor opponents).

DarthDiggler wrote:

Jaon wrote: They also have problems with only having 2 wounds,

They have 3 wounds. I like them alot. They have a great advanatage over many other heavies in that thye can not be killed in one shot. If you take 1 you will need to play it defensively - as a bodyguard for a unit(s) that hold back. If you take 2-3, especially with a fortuned Avatar, then you can blitz the enemy with an MC wall. The best part about them is they are cheap. A carnifex starts at 160pts and a decent WL (one weapon and a sword) is 130ish. 3 of them and an Avatar runs you about 550pts and if they charge it will take a lot of fire to slow them down. Meanwhile the other 1300pts (we play 1850pt games in Chicago) will remain unscathed and can act with impunity for a while.

+1

I've used a BL/EML lord on the back line to cover Pathfinders sitting on an objective and had great success with that. He's a great counter to deep striking or infiltrating units. Running three in a footdar list is probably the best way to use them - Wraithsword & Scatterlaser or EML/BL.

@notabot
I agree with you 100% that they are not a beginner's army. My go to tournament list is my Missile Wolves because they have less bad match-ups and more favorable match-ups.

The main thing holding Footdar back is Leafblower. They do well against everything else, but indirect ordnance in large amounts or fast flame units just murder the expensive, squishy space elves. And, as we all know, IG are out in huge numbers at most events so it is almost a sure bet to hit IG as you go up the tables and that is a really poor match up.

The fun thing about the army is its flexibility and adaptability. With the force multipliers and multitude of options then are very fun to play as you have so many options. My teammate and I just won best generals at a team tourny with an Footdar/DE combo which was good fun.

At higher values, they can be excellent units. The vendetta is their nemesis, but if they're equipped for AT they'll do fine against one. As DarthDiggler has said, their advantage is that they can't be killed in one shot, or, I might add, stopped from shooting or moving, which is a pretty big advantage over even the most upgraded fire prism. At lower point-value games, though, my preference is the cheaper and more maneuverable fire prism.

I have two fire prisms so A WL would be fine with them and say an avatar then?

Reecius wrote:@Notabot
Haha, yes, you are going to get flak for saying Footdar suck, because they don't.

Footdar have won 3 major tournaments in the past year, including a 100+ person GT. Sucky armies don't win GTs.

My Footdar have taken all comers, including Leaf Blower IG (their worst match-up) and come out on top more often than not. I have only lost 3 games with them in a year of regular play against a wide variety of players of very good to moderate skill level and they are surprisingly good. I am not saying I am the greatest guy on earth or that Footdar are the best army in the game because neither is true, but Footdar in a skilled players hands can go toe to toe with the heavy hitting armies. A lot of people hate on them but they repeatedly do well in tournaments which is incontrovertible proof of their worth.

What's the footdar list you normally run?

Kasrkin52 wrote:I have two fire prisms so A WL would be fine with them and say an avatar then?

Depends on the rest of the list. If it's mostly mechanized, the Avatar may be out of place. If it's more foot-oriented, the Avatar is pretty much mandatory.

@Mannahnin

I was thinking to have 2 10 man DA and 2 10 man guardian squads. Also I would run a full squad of harlies with shadowseer and some fire dragons in a wave serpant. oh and some wriathguard

@Lt. Coldfire

I change it around a lot, but typically it goes like this:

Eldrad
Avatar

5 Rangers
Jetbikes with warlock with destructor and spear
1-2 10xDA's
1-3 10xGuardian with various kit.

3xWL w/B.Lance, EML
or
2xWL and 3xW.Walker with 3 S.Laser

10 Harlies with kisses and shadowseer
2 x 5 Fire Dragons with Exarch/firepike and crackshot

I have had great success with it although I get endless amounts of net hate! But I play competitively and I do quite well so the net haters can keep doing their thing while I keep winning games. And, that is not to sound like an arrogant douche (I'm sure not many people care how well or poorly I do at 40K), just a statement of the facts.

I repeatedly ran one with Starcannon + Wraithsword in 750 and lower games. He's pretty much a beast. He'll rip apart vehicles and cleave armored units like no other in 500-750, and with T8 he's a real pain in the butt to deal with. His higher BS means he can be loaded up with heavy weapons and hit reliably. Give him 2 flamers and he'll soften a horde up pretty well before they tie him up for multiple turns.

It's good to hear you can run him at higher points, too; I'm going to be playing 1k a lot more (and hopefully higher values) and was wondering if he'd ever slide out of my list. 3 WL blitz sounds like an awesome move to pull on an opponent.

Wow, i'm actually pretty pleased to find that the Wraithlord's are such a reliable unit. I've times and again had a gaze at the Eldar and sighed from not playing them myself. And as a Tyranid player, the concept of having a great number of MC units are more than to my likings.

Recently i only run a WL in 1k or less.
1.5K+ i've been playing mech the past few games, which i cannot do with 1K or less, some might, i can't make a list that doesn't look bad IMO. So i take a pretty balanced force but i throw in 2 WL's, sometimes 3. The lower the amount of enemy big guns the more the WL will shine.

Wraithlords are better in a non-Footdar list than a Footdar list, if only for the increased likelihood you can screen them for cover (as otherwise, they aren't exactly the lowest-profile models around...), or being able to place additional threats which demand AT go elsewhere besides your Wraithlords (things like, I dunno, Serpents with Fire Dragons. Or Jetbikes). Footdar has a lot of flaws, including including no means to reliably deal with dual Land Raiders (Lance/EML is a joke against anything greater than AV 12 and is not as efficient vs AV 11, especially when you consider how limited Guide is in most Eldar lists), poor ability to saturate enemy weapons (realistically, if one has Vendettas...nobody is going to shoot Guardians with those...), and questionable-at-best anti-tank capability (3 Wraithlords and a couple of Lances, optionally some Warp Spiders). Played correctly, massed Sisters with Immolators can table Footdar with only a few martyred Sisters.

The advantage a Wraithlord has over, say a Falcon, is you cannot stun it or shake it and you require heavy weapons to deal with it. If you can bring several hulls to ensure that you do get an actual save and can survive a turn or two of being shot, then more power to you. Bring an EML and Scatter Laser for good measure; you're hunting AV 10-12 anyway, so the Lance is both more expensive and has less chance of doing actual damage. Having high Strength means in a pinch, you can finish off small Marine units or at least provide some area-denial that Eldar usually don't have otherwise.

Of the non-mech'd elements that count, Harlequins and Guardian Jetbikes are the friends of Wraithlords. Both have some secondary ability to survive being out in the open, with Veil of Tears or mobility and good save+Fortune, respectively. Both have Psyker attachments to provide a larger area for your Wraithlords to move around without having to test for Wraithsight. Both have the ability to support the Lord, the Harlequins providing a torrent of attacks to bail a Lord from being swamped, the Jetbikes occasionally being able to angle for an assault where they can soak a few hits, as well as being able to more reliably escort the units the Wraithlord/Harlequins *do* break off-table.

Good luck.