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Most people will accept that Mark of Tzeentch increases the parry ward save by 1; however for people that might not is there a way of convincing them? Any sources of reference such as part of an FAQ I missed? Because it is a 'special' ward save, some people may argue that modifiers do not apply; is there a reasonable base for this?

I want to try and get my Tzeentch army up and running again, and I fear walking into a brick wall at some point.

No, there is no reasonable basis.

MoT increases any ward save you have; Parry is now a wardsave, therefore MoT increases it.

Avatar 720 wrote:Any sources of reference such as part of an FAQ I missed? Because it is a 'special' ward save, some people may argue that modifiers do not apply; is there a reasonable base for this?

The reasonable base for this is that the parry rules don't say it cannot be modified, i don't really see what else you'd need.

You could point out that such a line of reasoning really opens a can of worms. What other ward saves are "special"? Those granted by magic resistance? By the Blasted standard?

I haven't really seen anyone object to this. A couple folks surprised when it first came up early in 8th, but not anymore.

Red, magic resistance itsekf is an improovement on your current ward save.

Even a snotling has wardsave 7+

Captain Solon wrote:Red, magic resistance itself is an improvement on your current ward save.

Yeah, he was making a point that there's currently no text defining different types of ward saves.

HoverBoy wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Any sources of reference such as part of an FAQ I missed? Because it is a 'special' ward save, some people may argue that modifiers do not apply; is there a reasonable base for this?

The reasonable base for this is that the parry rules don't say it cannot be modified, i don't really see what else you'd need.

This is logically what should be fine; but what could actually happen is that the reply is "Well the rulebook doesn't say I can't win this game on a die roll of 1-6; doesn't that mean I can?" The rulebook doesn't say it cannot be modified, but does it say anywhere that it can?

I'm going to try and counter arguments because I like being prepared for anything.

These are the questions your opponent needs to answer:
Is parry a ward save?
What does MoT do?
Case closed.

The parry save is a +6 Ward. MoT improves ward saves by 1.

That's all there is to it.

Avatar - except your argument isnt that.

Your argument is:

Parry is a ward save
MoT improves ward saves, specifically states so in its rules
There is nothing stating that the Parry ward save cannot be modified by MoT, so it CAN be.

The last bit is the "it doesnt say I cant" bit - you have, by this point, established permission to perform the action, your friend is now required to show where it cannot be performed, or it can be.

From the WOC army book page 110: "it bestows a 6+ ward save upon the bearer. If the model has a ward save from another source then that ward save is instead increased by 1" a parry save is a 6+ ward save so if you give the unit the mark of Tzeentch then they have 5+ ward save in close combat.