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Title says it all.

In a recent annihilation game, my friend argued that the combined blob of 3 infantry squads he had wiped out should be worth 3 KP. His logic is that they are each purchased as separate units in your list and don't combine until the game begins and it does make sense that each unit in your list is worth 1 KP each.

I don't know what precedent there is for this as other armies seem to have the opposite problem (ie: 1 SM unit combat squads into 2 units, worth 2 KP).

If infantry blobs really are 2 KP minimum it drastically lowers their value in my eyes, as games could be won or lost the moment you lose that pile of guardsmen.

What say you Dakka?

blob squad =1 KP.

If you have a unit of 10 infantrymen = 1 KP

If you have a unit of 50 infantrymen = 1 KP

Doesn't matter how many there are. It's one unit.

Fantastic, thats exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thanks for the quick replies

Note, though, that the PCS still counts as an extra one, and any ICs you put in also give one apiece as well.

The regular guys, though, well, KP was basically the reason why we have combined squads.

It functions "in game" as one unit, therefore it is 1 kill point.

Ailaros wrote:Note, though, that the PCS still counts as an extra one, and any ICs you put in also give one apiece as well.

The regular guys, though, well, KP was basically the reason why we have combined squads.

Since Commissars (line commissars, not lords) aren't IC (they're squad upgrades) they don't give a KP above the squad they're bought for, right?

Doctor Optimal wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Note, though, that the PCS still counts as an extra one, and any ICs you put in also give one apiece as well.

The regular guys, though, well, KP was basically the reason why we have combined squads.

Since Commissars (line commissars, not lords) aren't IC (they're squad upgrades) they don't give a KP above the squad they're bought for, right?

Correct.

Right, commissars are upgrade characters so don't count. Priests, lord commissars, primaris psykers, inquisitors, and the like, however, do.

daedalus wrote:

Doctor Optimal wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Note, though, that the PCS still counts as an extra one, and any ICs you put in also give one apiece as well.

The regular guys, though, well, KP was basically the reason why we have combined squads.

Since Commissars (line commissars, not lords) aren't IC (they're squad upgrades) they don't give a KP above the squad they're bought for, right?

Correct.

Ok, just making sure.

Ailaros wrote:Right, commissars are upgrade characters so don't count. Priests, lord commissars, primaris psykers, inquisitors, and the like, however, do.

But not WH priests!

/confusemore

daedalus wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Right, commissars are upgrade characters so don't count. Priests, lord commissars, primaris psykers, inquisitors, and the like, however, do.

But not WH priests!

/confusemore

That won't be a point of confusion much longer as allies are getting Squatted. And I was so eager to paint my new IG army up as inducted Inquisitorial Guard.

E: I could still do it and have an IG Codex army with an Inquisitor "counts as" a Lord Commissar (who we all now know is worth 1 KP!)

Bruteboss wrote:His logic is that they are each purchased as separate units in your list and don't combine until the game begins and it does make sense that each unit in your list is worth 1 KP each.

How does he play dedicated transports and KPs? I mean, you purchase them as one unit and they don't separate until the game begins so by his logic it should only be 1KP for squad and transport. (of course, they are a KP each for unit and squad)

I suggest you refer him to P3 and the definition of "unit". How you purchase them in your army list is not relevant. You can also refer him to Tau vehicles which can drop off a pair of drones. These are worth an extra kill point even though the tank with drones was purchased together.

This has cropped up in a coupel of my games as well so i just want to clarify.

My opponent fields a blob containng (IIRC) 2 infantry squads, 2 HW squads and a command squad. Does all this count as 1 KP then?

Firstly, he's getting that wrong - blobs can only contain platoon infantry squads. They may not contain, heavy weapon squads (although they may have heavy weapon teams which are part of the infantry squads), special weapon squads or command squads.

Secondly, the blob (of only the allowed squads) is only one KP. For example, he could have a platoon consisting of:
Command Squad
5x infantry squads each with a HWT
2x HWS
2x SWS

The blob would be 40 guys and five HWT bases which is worth one KP. The command squad, the 2 HWSs and the 2 SWSs would not be in the blob and would still be worth one KP each.

Sorry, i meant Heavy weapons teams. It was something like 2 x 10 infantry, 1 command squad, 2 Autocannon models. (not a lot of models i know but he had only just started the army)

My arguement was that the whole thing is a formation made up of several units, not one big unit (although it only takes up 1 Troops choice). Therefore each unit counts as a separate KP.

Guess i was wrong. Annoying that the redshirt at Warhammer World agreed with me.

Well 2 infantry Squads and a Command squad(1 minimum Platoon) is worth 2-3 KPs depending on whether or not the 2 infantry squads were blobbed.

Also HW teams are part of squads, HW Squads are squads in their own right and must have 3 HW Teams.

Ah, it might have been 3 HW teasm then (2 AC and a Mortar i think). So the Platoon woudl have been 2 infantry squads, 1 command squad and 1 HW squad (consisting of 3 teams). So this Platoon would actually be worth 4 KPS? (infantry x2, command & HW).

But if he wanted he could blob the 2 infantry togethetr to have 1 20 man squad and make the platoon worth only 3 KPS instead.

Forgive my ignorance, i dont pay IG and the friend who does is new to it so is less than reliable when discussing rules.

10 IG= 1KP
50 IG= 1KP
50 IG + PCS= 2KP
50 IG + lord comissar= 2KP
50 IG + lord comissar + PCS= 3KP
50 IG + HWT= 2KP
ect.

Praxiss wrote:Ah, it might have been 3 HW teasm then (2 AC and a Mortar i think). So the Platoon woudl have been 2 infantry squads, 1 command squad and 1 HW squad (consisting of 3 teams). So this Platoon would actually be worth 4 KPS? (infantry x2, command & HW).

But if he wanted he could blob the 2 infantry togethetr to have 1 20 man squad and make the platoon worth only 3 KPS instead.

Forgive my ignorance, i dont pay IG and the friend who does is new to it so is less than reliable when discussing rules.

That's correct.

Only infantry squads can blob.

Heavy Weapons only come as Heavy Weapon Teams. These can be taken as part of a Command Squad or an Infantry Squad (or Veteran Squad). You can ALSO take whole Heavy Weapon Squads, consisting of three Teams. Confusing.

Praxiss wrote:Ah, it might have been 3 HW teasm then (2 AC and a Mortar i think). So the Platoon woudl have been 2 infantry squads, 1 command squad and 1 HW squad (consisting of 3 teams). So this Platoon would actually be worth 4 KPS? (infantry x2, command & HW).

But if he wanted he could blob the 2 infantry togethetr to have 1 20 man squad and make the platoon worth only 3 KPS instead.

Forgive my ignorance, i dont pay IG and the friend who does is new to it so is less than reliable when discussing rules.

It's quite possible that each squad had a heavy weapon in it, in which case they can be combined into the blob.

However, the platoon command squad (or company command squad) cannot be part of the blob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Praxiss wrote:My arguement was that the whole thing is a formation made up of several units, not one big unit

This is true.

Except - when several squads are blobbed together they become a single unit for all purposes.

And again, a major reason why this was done was to allow IG to not be boned in KP games. In the old codex they couldn't blob, and Vets weren't troops, so every Troops slot was at least 3KP. It sucked.

Mannahnin wrote:In the old codex they couldn't blob, and Vets weren't troops, so every Troops slot was at least 3KP. It sucked.

Actually, officers used to be indepentent characters, so every troops choice gave at least FOUR KP.

Praxiss wrote:My arguement was that the whole thing is a formation made up of several units, not one big unit (although it only takes up 1 Troops choice). Therefore each unit counts as a separate KP.

Yes, you are correct that an infantry platoon is many units crammed into a single troops choice, and thus give out multiple KP. The thing you're getting confused about is the "combined squads" rule, which allows many of those individual units to turn into a single unit. Think of it like space marines combat squadding, but in reverse. Once a tac squad combat squads, they're two units for the remainder of the game giving two KP. Likewise, two (or more) guard infantry squad units can combine together, making them one unit for the remainder of the game.

Praxiss wrote:Guess i was wrong. Annoying that the redshirt at Warhammer World agreed with me.

Yeah, don't trust the average GW employee or tournament judge to actually understand the rules any better than anybody else.

The worst is when they screw up in their FAQs.