Switch Theme:

2250 TK vs Lizardmen  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Inspiring Icon Bearer






So when I first decided to branch from 40k into Fantasy, I was torn between two armies. Tomb Kings and Chaos. I wound up choosing Chaos because everyone told me that TK were unwinnable .Then their FAQ came out and I just couldnt quite see how they were so bad.

Christmas time came, and with it...4000 points of Tomb Kings.



So yesterday was my first battle with the army against a Lizardmen player who took 2nd in the OKC tournament I posted about here awhile ago.



Here's my list.


2250.0 Pts - Tomb Kings Roster

Tomb King (1#, 279.0 pts)
1 Tomb King @ 279.0 pts (Always Strikes Last; General; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Light Armour; Flammable; Undead)
1 Talisman of Endurance

Liche High Priest (1#, 275.0 pts)
1 Liche High Priest @ 275.0 pts (Hierophant; Hand Weapon; Undead)
1 Wizarding Hat

Liche Priest (4#, 330.0 pts)
1 Liche Priest @ 330.0 pts (Hand Weapon; Undead)
1 Casket of Souls (Causes Terror)
2 Casket Guard (Always Strikes Last; Great Weapon; Light Armour; Undead)
1 Goldon Ankhra
1 Ironcurse Icon

Icon Bearer (1#, 100.0 pts)
1 Icon Bearer (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 100.0 pts (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Battle Standard Bearer; Undead)
1 Skeletal Steed
1 Banner of the Undying Legion

Skeleton Warriors (25#, 210.0 pts)
25 Skeleton Warriors @ 210.0 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Undead)

Skeleton Warriors (25#, 210.0 pts)
25 Skeleton Warriors @ 210.0 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Undead)

Chariots (18#, 250.0 pts)
6 Chariots @ 250.0 pts (Musician Mus; Fast Cavalry; Undead)
6 Driver (Hand Weapon)
6 Warrior (Hand Weapon; Bow; Spear)
12 Skeletal Steed

Tomb Guard (25#, 330.0 pts)
24 Tomb Guard @ 330.0 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield; Undead)
1 Champion (Hand Weapon; Light Armour; Shield)

War Engines (4#, 90.0 pts)
1 Screaming Skull Catapult @ 90.0 pts (Stone Thrower; Undead)
3 Crew (Hand Weapon)

War Engines (4#, 90.0 pts)
1 Screaming Skull Catapult @ 90.0 pts (Stone Thrower; Undead)
3 Crew (Hand Weapon)

Tomb Scorpion (1#, 85.0 pts)
1 Tomb Scorpion @ 85.0 pts (Killing Blow; Magic Resistance (1); Poisoned Attacks; Undead)

Validation Report:
Edition: 8th Edition; Game Type: Normal Game; Army Subtype: Tomb Kings Army
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Total Roster Cost: 2249.0





His List

Slaan, Lore of Death - All spells
Focused Rumination
Cupped Hands
Temple Guard

Stegadon with Skink Chief skinks, plus an item that gave extra impact hits.

30 Saurus

1 Razordon with lots of skinks.

2x 10 chameleon skinks
3x 10 skinks








The board itself had a lot of hills on the right side, and on the left side we put a 4 inch deep, 8 inch wide section of light forest. In the middle was an Idol of Gork (or possibly Mork.) We decided to play regular ol' VP's.



Deployment came and went.

He wound up having 2 units of skinks on my back right board edge and 3 units spread out in the very front of his army. He placed his Slaan in the middle of the board, his Stegadon on the left side, and his Saurus block screening his Razordon on the right.

I deployed pretty defensively in my left hand corner behind my forest. I had my two blocks of warriors 12 inches up so they could shoot as soon as possible. Between them was my unit of Tomb Guard w/ icon bearer and Tomb King. The skeleton archers were also flanked by my screaming skull catapults. The Scorpion was held out for "It came from below...", and my Chariots deployed on the far right side of the board, intent on getting back behind his lines as soon as possible.


I won the roll to go first, then went ahead and rolled my random lore for wizarding hat. We rolled a d8 and would reroll 8's. I rolled Lore of Metal, then got the glittering robe and the level 0 magic missle.




Movement phase I kept my Skeleton where they were. In fact, the only movement was my Chariots. They did their Vanguard move ( TK Light Chariots count as fast calv. ) and their normal move forward and behind the Lizardmen forces, getting out of the Saurus LoS. My intent was the Razordons, which would chew up my skeletons from range with their ridiculous number of shots. Magic phase brough 3 dice to me, and two to my opponent. My TK magic was wasted in this phase because I chose to not move my archers forward in the last phase. I essentially gave up 80 shots this turn. So I threw all 3 magic dice at Glittering Robe to give my units some armor, and my opponent dispelled it.

Then came the Casket.

The casket specifically says it comes at the end of the phase and uses 2d6 to determine it's strength. I rolled a 10, but it didnt matter since he was out of dispel dice. He lost 18 skinks, 8 chameleon skinks, 3 Saurus, 1 TG, 2 wounds on the Stegadon, and 1 skink from his Razordon crew.

I will also go ahead and mention now.. this was my first Rodeo with the TK. I didnt know my Chariots had bows. =(


On the bottom of T1 he moved his entire army closer except for his far left squad of skinks and his razordons. These aimed themselves at my chariots. His first magic phase rolled a 3 as well. He used Fate of Bjuna on my Tomb King, but none of hits stuck. He shot and killed a chariot and put a wound on another.



Top of T2.

I declared a charge on his Razordon with my Chariots. He chose stand and shoot. I lost another 2 chariot models, taking me down to 3 remaining. ( He rolled pretty poorly here, eating a bunch of his own skinks. )

My Skellies were all in range now, so I scoooted them back 2 inches to 24 away. I moved my Tomb Guard up, towards his TG and Slaan. Magic phase had double 3's. so it was 6 dice to 3. He tried to dispel my first extra shots incantation but failed because he only used one dice. My magical shooting was well above average this round. I wiped out two full squads of skinks between both skeleton units. Next came the Liche Priest, who gave an extra shot to a catapult, which landed dead on his TG and did 3 wounds to his Slaan and killed 4 TG. (He refused to Look out sir! for some reason.) For Lore of Metal, I rebuffed my units with some armor. The casket wasnt as effective this round, as his skirmishers got smart and ended their moves looking AWAY from the Casket. (Cover your eyes Dr. Jones!) It still killed several TG and 3 skinks in the Stegadon.

Normal shooting went well, wiping out the last of his skinks with the exception of the two units of Chameleon skinks and the one unit up left watching my Chariots fight his Razordons.

Assault went as I had hoped. Impact hits and attacks killed everything in the stegadon unit but 1 skink and 1 stegadon. It held on insane courage however, so it went nowhere. I lost a wound on a chariot.


Bottom of T2.

He moved closer again, but now was in range to shoot me with skinks. His Stegadon took a wound moving through the forest terrain in front of him, putting it at 4 wounds. His winds of Magic went well, gaining him 11 dice to my 6. His first spell however was a 25 point Purple Sun, which failed to cast. Shooting saw me lose a few TG to some skinks, but not much else. Assault finally ended his Razordon pack.

Top of T3

I moved my Chariots to the right and behind his Slaan. I wasnt quite ready to assault it yet. There were still far too many TG, and they were stubborn anyways. I scooted my skelly archers back and reformed my TG to countercharge his Saurus warrios who were in range to still assault my skeletons. (It occured to me later the smart move would have been to just place the TG between the two units, but I wasnt sure if he could fanagle a flank charge. And I had a lot of skeletons. I figured they would hold at least one turn. Winds of Magic were okay. I rolled a 7 on winds, with a and a . Yay.

I got magical shooting off on his Stegadon, but with randomization I only managed to kill a couple of skinks and put a wound on the chief. The other unit killed a couple of Saurus warriors. He dispelled my Lore of Metal spell, my casket, and my regeneration spell. Grand.

Normal shooting did nothing more to the Stegadon and killed about 6 Saurus warriors. Unfortunately that was enough to remove enough of his back rank that only a few of my tomb guard would be able to attack.


Bottom of T3.

He decalred a charge with his Stegadon on my Skeleton archers. As I understand it, I'm allowed no charge reactions other than hold, so I held. He made distance without much problem. He also charged my skeletons with his Saurus block, and made distance easy. His magic phase saw him grab 11 dice to my 5. (He channeled one.) First Doom and Darknessed my TK, which I dispelled. Then he caused 2 hits to my Icon Bearer, which had no ward. He died. This gave him more dice to use. So he Large Vortexed me through my TG and over my Casket of Souls.

I lose my musician and champion from the tomb guard, and about 6 others. We didnt know how to allocate the wounds from the vortex on the casket, so I had every model in the caskets profile make a test. 1 guard died. I also lost my I2 High Liche Priest w/ wizard hat. I lucked into keeping my normal liche priest alive however.

Then he goes and does the opposed leadership spell from death, that causes a wound per point he beats me by in an opposed leadership check w/ a d6. He targets my catapult, which has no score. The skeleton models have a 3 leadership. This turned into a small arguement, which I'll explain later. Anyways, the Catapult died.

Assault sees him win with his stegadon by 5, so I lose 5 skellies from crumble. I lost the battle with his warrior block by 4, so lost some extra skellies there as well.

Top of T4

Without my Wizard hat, I very suddenly felt weak in the magic phase. My Tomb Scorpion came in, then killed itself with a mishap. Movement was moot for the most part. Magic phase gave him 7 dispel dice, although he forgot I lost my wizard. Magical shooting went to my catapult, which killed about 5 of his temple guard with his slaan. He dispelled my extra attacks with my Tomb Guard unit, and dispelled my regeneration spell. The tomb Guard completed their flank charge on the Saurus block, although only my TK and 3 TG were able to attack.

His Slaan failed it's leadership test. (He needed snake eyes, having only 2 models left. 1 TG and his Slaan.) It ran 12 inches, putting it PAST my waiting chariots, which had been reduced to 2 by skinks. My catapults second shot was a misfire result of 2, so it couldnt fire for this turn or next. Assault went well, forcing a draw on his saurus warriors (kiling about 5 of them.) and killing the last of his skinks on his stegadon while taking heavy casualties to my 1st skeleton regement.

Bottom of T4.

His Slaan rolled and reformed, through it was too far away in this magic phase to do much. The previous vortex rolled off the board, which was nice. He rolled a new one but it didnt go far enough to hurt anyone.

Assault saw the death of his Stegadon, stabbed with a skeleton hand weapon. I was reduced down to 5 skeletons in that combat. His skink chief apparently lives even if the stegadon dies, and it help the lines against my skellies. The skeleton vs lizardman vs tomb guard whittled on, with some losses on both sides. I was down to about 7 skeleton on that front.


Top of T5.

Movement didnt do much, though I did declare a charge on his slaan with my 1 remaining chariot. The impact hit killed his last Temple Lizard, but his Slaan passed it's break test at -2. He completely negated my magic phase, because he got 7 dispel dice again, so no regenerated skellies for me. Assault was rough. 1 wound on his skink chief and me down to my last skeleton. The big melee finally ended. He lost all his lizards and fled off the board away from my Tomb Guard and TK.

Bottom of T5.

His Slaan tried to punch my chariot but missed. He also rolled snake eyes for magic. Vortex scattered harmlessly. He killed the last of my skeletons with his skink chief.



We called the game here. Nothing was in range to affect anything else at this point. I wound up scoring 1700 VP's to his 700, which I believe is either a Major or a Massacre on most scoring scales.


Some thoughts.


TK's are nice until two things happen.

1) You lose magical shooting.
2) People shut down your Invocations.

I really cant see any way to run them without a Wizard Hat either. It adds too much for your opponent to dispel NOT to take. I think it's better taken on an actual Tomb King however, instead of putting it on a High Liche Priest.


Rules Arguements.


#1. Purple Sun.

When it rolls over a model that loses wounds in a specific order, how do I go about that? My take was I should make 3 tests, for the 2 tomb guard and the liche priest on the model. I should make them at the units average initiative, 3. I should then remove a number of models = to failed tests, starting with the guard and moving up the the priest if I failed all three.



#2. Spirit Leech.

The spell specifically says it targets a model. He said he chose my catapult, which doesnt have a leadership score. My arguement was that it then redirects to a crewman. He did a total of 7 wounds there, and claimed that the catapult counts as 1 model, even though theres 3 crew on it, and that my whole catapult is destroyed. In my opinion, Leech can only affect 1 model ever, so yes, he did 7 wounds, but they all go overkill on one poor crewman.



Anyways, thanks for reading. I'll try to start posting some pictures.





Age of Sigmar, New World Tournament Ruleset


[centerPlease feel free to pop in and comment, or send me a PM![/center]



 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Look forward to reading the report, been thinking a lot about TK of late. But for now some answers to your rules issues ...
Thunderfrog wrote:Rules Arguements.

#1. Purple Sun.

When it rolls over a model that loses wounds in a specific order, how do I go about that? My take was I should make 3 tests, for the 2 tomb guard and the liche priest on the model. I should make them at the units average initiative, 3. I should then remove a number of models = to failed tests, starting with the guard and moving up the the priest if I failed all three.

#2. Spirit Leech.

The spell specifically says it targets a model. He said he chose my catapult, which doesnt have a leadership score. My arguement was that it then redirects to a crewman. He did a total of 7 wounds there, and claimed that the catapult counts as 1 model, even though theres 3 crew on it, and that my whole catapult is destroyed. In my opinion, Leech can only affect 1 model ever, so yes, he did 7 wounds, but they all go overkill on one poor crewman.

1) The casket is a war machine, is it not? Which means if the Purple Sun hits it, it auto-fails its initiative test and is removed. There's no splitting the guards off and such because it's all one model. Sucks, don't it?

2) The catapult is one model (of class WM), and it uses the LD value of its crew (skeleton's are LD3, I think). He only has to do 3 wounds to the catapult to kill it, and there is no way for him to pick out the crew, which are essentially used only for counting the remaining wounds and attaks the model has. In much the same way a cannon which shoots your catapult rolls to wound vs its T7 and then still does D6 wounds, which will each 'remove' a skeleton crewman until 3 are 'gone' and the entire catapult is removed.

- Salvage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/31 01:03:42


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight





Uh, I don't think the Slann & Temple Guard(even just one) should have run.

As long as there's a single Temple Guard model with a Slann, they're stubborn, I believe.
   
Made in us
Inspiring Icon Bearer





Boss.

Thanks for the heads up. I learned a few things about Purple sun that game. I never knew it scattered on both you and your opponents magic phases. Also, I didnt know it hit every model that the template moves over while reaching it's destination. I thought it only counted where it stopped and what was under the pie plate.







Veritek.

Stubborn means that a unit always has the Steadfast special rule regardless of ranks.


Steadfast says a unit may test on it's unmodified leadership during a Break test in close combat.

Casualties taken during shooting and magic cause a Panic test, which is not the same as a Break test.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/31 03:12:17




Age of Sigmar, New World Tournament Ruleset


[centerPlease feel free to pop in and comment, or send me a PM![/center]



 
   
Made in us
Guardsman with Flashlight





Thunderfrog wrote:
Veritek.

Stubborn means that a unit always has the Steadfast special rule regardless of ranks.


Steadfast says a unit may test on it's unmodified leadership during a Break test in close combat.

Casualties taken during shooting and magic cause a Panic test, which is not the same as a Break test.



Yeah, I'm well aware of that. It wasn't clear to me that that test was taken in the Shooting phase.

That said, I'm still not clear on why the Slann needed snake eyes. Based on my reading of the rules for Panic on p. 62 of the BRB, there are no penalties to a panic test(barring specific rules for the cause of the test). While Stubborn does not apply to panic tests, you already use your unmodified LD, Am I missing a rule on modifying LD based on shooting/magic casualties?

I haven't seen TK in action and am not particularly familiar with them. Is there an ability you were using to drop the Slann's LD?
   
Made in us
Inspiring Icon Bearer





Ah.

THAT we may have misplayed. When the Slaan had to test, it had less that 25% of its original models remaining.

It did need snake eyes to rally, but probably should have needed it in the first place to save. Glad you pointed that out. =)




Age of Sigmar, New World Tournament Ruleset


[centerPlease feel free to pop in and comment, or send me a PM![/center]



 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





On the perfumed wind

Thanks for the report. Outside of the rules queries, I'll bet your opponent learned a thing or two about playing against tomb kings (like save some dispel dice for the casket if you've got clouds of skinks with line of sight to it), and only try one die dispels when you're really in a bind.

I would recommend a different lore to him- I don't think much of Death if the Slann intends to be in a temple guard block as the Purple suns go off, though the snipes did seem to do a number on you, so there's that. Also interesting to see Razordons instead of the standard salamanders.

It was an interesting matchup to watch- Tomb Kings shooting is fairly well suited to dropping skinks with the auto 5s to wound.

One more thing on the whole Slann bit- while Temple Guard are protecting a Slann, they are Immune to Psychology, which means they shouldn't be taking panic tests at all, unmodified or otherwise.

Thanks again, and looking forward to more Tomb King battle reports!

RZ

“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.

On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

Do Tomb King Chariots cause impact hits? I was thinking they didn't for some reason...

Thanks for the report though. I will definitely be remembering to look away from that cask (or save dice to dispel) if I come across it!


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos





On the perfumed wind

They cause impact hits, but only D3 per chariot (unless augmented by a magic item available to Tomb Kings).

RZ

“It was in lands of the Chi-An where she finally ran him to ground. There she kissed him deeply as he lay dying, and so stole from him his last, agonized breath.

On a delicate chain at her throat, she keeps it with her to this day.”
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Lancaster PA

Ahh I see, thanks.


Woad to WAR... on Celts blog, which is mostly Circle Orboros
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
 
Forum Index » The Old World & Legacy Warhammer Fantasy Discussion
Go to: