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So I got my skavens from the ilse of blood. I figured I could get the battleforce and alltogether that will give me.. 80 clanrats (thinking 2 hordes of 40 spears & 40 hand weapons, or would I want 4 units of 20 each?), 20 plague monks, 4 rat ogres, 6 giant rats, 3 shapers, 1 master molder, 1 engineer & 1 warlord.

What would be good to add to that, to build up to 2000 pts? Messing with army builder, I can get up to 1500 by adding an assassin and the new catapult.

I like having a good bit of magic so I also thought maybe I can make the warlord a chielf, and then have a gray seer with a bell and that gets me closer to 2000.. but would that big bell just be a big bullseye for every enemy warmachine? When I play my lizards, my carnosaur & stegadons always get taken out first :( So I'm a bit hesitant to sink a lot of cash & points into big stuff that won't last more than 2-3 turns, even though for modeling and painting I like doing the big stuff more

any thoughts?

Well, I'm doing the same thing right now. I got the IOB and Battalion, and I bought another 40 clan rats, 18 night runners, and Doomwheel on Ebay.

I'll also be picking up a box of Night Goblins, and Empire troops for slaves. Need a Grey Seer as well.

The HPA gets released in a week I think, and you cannot go wrong with that. A WLC/PCC and wouldn't be bad options either.

I'm hoping with these, I'll have a good grounding to learn the army.

I just want to make sure I buy stuff I'll really use I was messing with army builder some more and I could start with IOB and battleforce, and add an assassin, bell, warp lighting cannon and catapult for right around 2000. But is that too many points in big stuff? I always thought of skaven as more of a troopy army instead of a big stuff army.

Well, they are more effective being troop heavy. You'll want some slave tar pits. I've heard assassins are just wasted points. Lots of people frown on the Bell as well. Just to random to be effective.

hmm, didn't think of slaves. well with just the isle of blood and a battleforce I can get up to around 1250 so I guess I'll start there and play a few games. I wouldn't mind adding the warp lightning cannon and maybe a doomwheel just based on looks alone.

I would suggest some mor troops as you can never have too manny in a Skaven army. Jezzales might also be worth your while as they make a complete mockery of heavy cavalry. You have a fairly solid core of troops (but you can always use more) so some support unit such as gutter runners or censer bearers would compliment your large core blocks.

OK well I'll start with the battleforce then. That'll give me like 1000 pts of troops. I'll skip the assassin, but I like the idea of being sneaky and hiding him in a unit. I'd like to stick to as much plastic as possible so it's a bit cheaper. Are stormvermin any good? and night runners instead of gutter runners?

I take it slaves are metal.. what if I just did clan rats without shields to count as slaves, maybe get the sling upgrade pack for some of em?

Sounds fair enough. If keeping it cheap maters i must point out that the Storm Vermin set is one of the more expensive plastic sets available. Plus you will need at least two of them for an effective unit. Night runners are fine as a distraction unit but i am sure not manny people would have a problem with you using the plastic figures as Gutter Runners. Also with the slaves, i don't think GW sells the metal figures anymore, or at least they don't sell them in store. I think it is assumed that people will use the Clan Rat set to represent their slave units, your suggestion with the shields was a good one. Personally i would consider using Ghouls (from the Vampire Counts) to represent Slaves in a Skaven army. They look suitably abused and down trodden. If you have a regular opponent maybe consider using a unit from their particular army to represent the Slaves, although this would take a bit more conversion work than the Clan Rats or Ghouls.

Necros wrote:I take it slaves are metal.. what if I just did clan rats without shields to count as slaves, maybe get the sling upgrade pack for some of em?

One half of the Clanrat sprue is specifically designed to represent slaves and trust me, they really do look the part. Two of them even have manacles around their ankles.

Slings are a bit rubbish IMHO. Slaves only have a BS of 2 and then you have a -1 to hit for long range and -1 to hit for multiple shot. Plus in order to get a decent volume of fire you have to deploy wide, which as any Skaven will tell you is a very bad idea. If you're going to give them anything, go with shields and have as many ranks as possible.

Skaven players can never go wrong by collecting clanrats/slaves. Even if you want to go cheap you can likely find decent deals on ebay and discount online retailers.

So, if going wide is a bad idea, then it wouldn't be a good idea to do a horde of clanrats or slaves? Should I just shoot for 5 wide?

Instead of 80 clanrats, would I be better off doing 4 clanrats and 40 slaves? 2 units of 20 each? or do I want em to be like 5 or 6 ranks deep?

I play Skaven, and I fail to see how deploying wide when armed with Spears is a bad idea. Not like you can't afford MASSIVE units is it?

Going wide with slaves is definitely a bad idea, with clanrats it depends on what you're facing and how many ranks you can muster. I would say a horde of 10 by 4 is too weak a formation, but if your general and BSB is nearby, it might come off. Remember you can always change formation if the situation is favourable.

hm ok.. well I have 20 clanrats with spears and 20 with hand weapons now. So in the battleforce I'll get 40 more and I guess I'll do them as 20 slaves with spears, and then add 10 more clanrats to the other 2 units I have, and run em 5 x 6. I do like 5 wide better anyway, easier to move and wheel and stuff.

is 10 wide just bad because 2 units could hit em? I run big blocks of 40 skinks and they do pretty well actually, but the poison & javelins help a lot there.

10 wide is a fine option but your going to need at least 40 clanrats in the unit to give it staying power. Remember you can always reform if said large block gets whittled down.

Necros wrote:is 10 wide just bad because 2 units could hit em? I run big blocks of 40 skinks and they do pretty well actually, but the poison & javelins help a lot there.

No steadfast basically (well, not against any decent sized block of infantry anyway). You've only got to lose the combat by a few points and you could be waving cheerio to a lot of Clanrats. Although the General and BSB will give you a decent chance of staying put, you are more likely to scarper. But again, if the situation is favourable, there's no reason why you can't reform to a wide formation.

Necros wrote:OK well I'll start with the battleforce then. That'll give me like 1000 pts of troops. I'll skip the assassin, but I like the idea of being sneaky and hiding him in a unit. I'd like to stick to as much plastic as possible so it's a bit cheaper. Are stormvermin any good? and night runners instead of gutter runners?

I take it slaves are metal.. what if I just did clan rats without shields to count as slaves, maybe get the sling upgrade pack for some of em?

Well, I bought the Night Runners to use as Gutter Runners.

I haven't seen anyone build lists that use Night Runners, so I don't think their all to popular an option.

That sounds good, I'll do the plastic gutter runners then. The models look pretty similar anyway. I guess they're mostly for war machine and solo hunting?

Now that I have a bunch of models I'm about to start building everything. I'd like to plan out my units ahead of time since I want to do some creative/decorative things for the bases .. so just in general, for an average 2000 pt fun game (I don't do tournaments, but they're not out of the question) .. what's a good unit size to go with and how many wide/deep? I know how they get the leadership bonus from ranks now so I'm not considering a wide horde, I was thinking 5 x 5 for 25 models? or do I want them to go really deep? I like the idea of having multiple units of 20 or 25, but I worry about smaller units being less survivable.

So I have the island of blood models, and I picked up a battleforce so I was thinking of building that as 20 plague monks, 20 clanrats with spears, 20 slaves with spears. Or should I take those 20 clanrats and make them 10 spears and 10 hand weapons and add them to my IOB units, making each one 30?

For my bases I'm planning to build them to look like a stone brick sewer kind of floor, and like they're standing on a big skaven symbol when the unit is all put together. So thats kinda why I wanted to plan em out ahead of time Though maybe I could build that into a 5x5 square and then I can add extra models on the back with plain brick floors.

I use several blocks of 40 clanrats and early game i keep them 10 wide 4 deep to minimize all the bolt throwers that my opponents like to usein the early game. Then depending on the tactical situation ill change them into a column formation 5 wide 8 deep and charge in or if i have wittled the enemy down enough keep them in a horde and stand my ground with spears.

30 I would say is a minimum unit size for a usual game; 40 is my preferred number, however, to make sure I outrank my enemies as long as possible. Slaves are in blocks of 50, although I've considered going for a 10x10 horde

If you really wanted to use units of 25 for modeling purposes, you could make it a unit of 50, split onto two movement trays. Would be extra handy for pushing a Screaming Bell as well. Units of 40 could be on 2 sets of 20, etc. That would allow you to make the decorative bases you want (which sound awesome, btw) while still letting you swap out unit sizes as needed.

I have pretty much the exact same collection as you and I bought a hell pit abomination and a plagueclaw/lightning cannon kit because they look awesome.

So basically, get those kits because they look cool. I have the hell pit guy assembled (working on magnetizing the catapult/cannon kit) and I cannot wait to paint him because it sounds like fun. I paint for meditative purposes, not fun, so having a model that I think will be fun to paint means something.

Actually my plan was to also do the decorative bases so that you can stick one unit next to another and it will look like one continuous design.. so yeah, I could have a horde of 40 by just sticking my 2 units of 20 spears together.

Maybe I'd be better off planning for 30 though just from the get go, so that would give me 1 unit of 30 with hand weapons, and one with spears.. I'll start with the 20 slaves and just add to that when I can.

I was thinking of actually mixing up the slaves with a lot of models like getting a box of empire free company and some flagelents (for the raggy cloths) and mix them all up, add some handcuffs and chains. Thinking slaves could be just about any race.. some folks that could have just have been kidnapped one day... But the musician and champ would be skaven models still