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Just in case people don't know and are attending here they are:

http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2011/201140KChampPrimer.pdf

I like them, but then again I'm probably playing foot guard this year

Thoughts?

A lot of kill point scenarios but I like it.

I do too. Even if your KP heavy you can still win by taking the other two objectives. Kinda mitigates the bad match-ups KP wise and keeps people from hiding after they realize you can't come back on KP's.

Yeah - part of the reason they've included KP in so many missions is that each mission has 3 objectives and a tiebreaker. Similar to the change to a full elim style winner, it's another step toward trying to have a balanced/competitively evaluative championships.


/like

Yeah, haven't really had a chance to disect them yet but I like them on general over view. Gonna have to sit down with them and consider the build I was thinking about. Don't wanna gimp myself but it looks like it's pretty solid for non-extreme builds across the board. Looking at them the only one I see is the non-troop KP.

Do troop transports count as a KP or not on that one? If they do count as kp's for this then only crazy foot ork/ig armies are benefitting as they tend to stack up quite a few points in troops. If the transports don't count then it just gets crazy

Interesting collection of missions. I'm taking one of my rare years off from individual 40k @ Adepticon (Fantasy on Friday, helping out on Sunday), so I get to sit back and watch y'all deal with this revised approach.

I'm wondering why they listed infiltrate in the Special Rules. It's no longer a Mission special rule, it's a Universal Special Rule. Are they planning on listing all the USRs?

ryan3740 wrote:I'm wondering why they listed infiltrate in the Special Rules. It's no longer a Mission special rule, it's a Universal Special Rule. Are they planning on listing all the USRs?

It's probably a hold over from previous mission design. However, infiltration affects deployment options. Typically infiltration is allowed. However, there have been missions in the past that have not allowed infiltration. That said, I do not believe the listing of other USRs is required.

They Look fun. I am playing a no vehicle list. so all the kill points will make some off those DE builds cry.

Heard DE poisoned weapons are making Wolfstars cry purple rain.

Foot oriented loganwing was a gimmick anyway, built to take advantage of mech guard and anti-mech emphasis showing up in the meta. IT's still "good" but ... yeah - more balanced lists, better major GT missions and formats that don't require massacring people all day long, new codices, and other things are having an impact on its relevance.

At the same time, a lot of people are trying too hard to make the DE codex something OTHER than what it is - MSU-fest (the only codex that truly is among really strong lists right now, IMO).

That said, a lot of popular wolf lists still make DE cry over and over again ...

I think strong DE lists can be made which leverage starting Haemonc pain counters to greater effect using larger units. Beastmasters, Hellions, and Wyches can be nasty in large units. As can a single big unit of Warriors for home-objective camping with a pair of DLs for support.

I don't think you can get their KP count too low, though, as you need the vehicular shooting support, and their vehicles are of the cheap & fragile variety, rather than the expensive and tough sort.

What are these for? A primier? What?

Also, where is Adepticon, and when. I would love to go to one.

Just a reminder that these are the "Primer" missions and as such subject to change.


@Happygrunt

AdeptiCon is in a suburb of Chicago. See http:/www.adepticon.org for all the event details.

We have for a number of years posted event primer missions for most of our event offering. This allows people to get a taste for what to expect and to give them a spin. We have typically done some event primers to test out new mission and scoring ideas. They also allow for some staff training and software testing which is particularly vital.

any chance the adepticon organizers can put a small spot on the registration sheets asking how many KP an entry army has total? since most of the missions feature KP in some way, i'd be curious to see what effect that has on the army makeups compared to other KP-less tourny formats.

I'm glad to see the missions feature killpoints.

I like how the missions are done this year. It has a feel of epic 40k to it with multiple objectives and most objectives win the game.

I know Matthias plays epic so I can see his ideas and I like them. This is a major improvement over previous adepticon championships.

I think those missions look great!

The preponderance of KP does make me give thought to my MSU missile wolf list, though. I will most likely still bring them as they have always stood me well in KP missions even against very low KP armies.

What makes these missions look so good to me though, is the fact that there are multiple objectives which make the game less about match-ups and more about smart play. If you have your MSU army up against Nob Bikers it isn't an incredibly bad match as you can focus on taking the other two objectives, or playing for the tie on objectives and going for the VP win.

I give these missions two thumbs up and look forward to playing them!

I was going to make a thread about these tomorrow morning - you guys are on the ball! Should be a few Development Blog articles about all this soon too.

The Hod and Reecius nailed the general spirit of this missions. There were written back in the Fall at the same time as the rules for the event - in order to see how missions would look/feel under the new system. We got have used them in 4 or so tournaments so far. The Adeptus Windy City monthly event has been using them for a few months now as there standard 1850 format. The missions presented in this PDF are unchanged from their initial conception back in August. We have gotten a ton of good feedback on them, but I wanted to put them out there in there as originally conceived in order to get a wider range of feedback.

The Epic GT Mission was a definite inspiration in terms of the format for the new 40K Championships and mission design. This is basically the old PST system flattened out. Players will essentially decide which objectives are their 'Primary Objectives' by evaluating the terrain, deployments options, their opponent's force and so forth.

Keep in mind that this system is meant to do away with the need for crushing victories. You can still Win a game, even if you only claim one objective - you just need to make sure the other two objectives are denied to your opponent. This format even allows armies like pure Death Company to actually win a game.

The other idea behind these missions was to adhere to the basic tenets of 5th edition Warhammer 40K and attempt to design a system that lives within the basic system of the game, even if it isn't perfect. The biggest difference is that we are covering multiple basic objectives in a single game. Draws, being part of 40K, are still in the event - although they are two-tired requiring players to first tie on number of objectives achieved and then fall with in the VP tiebreak point spread. This makes draws more difficult to achieve and are much more validated than under the old system. There will be no draws in Sunday's finals.

There will definitely be some changes - although they will be minor in structure. The Elite KP Mission (non-troops) has been called into question a few times. The idea was to pair this up against another objective based mission where the objectives were only claimable by scoring units/troops. In theory we like it, but in practice it might not be so functional. We are also looking at other ways to approach the 'Kill the HQ' objectives to make them a little more dynamic and discourage people from hiding their HQ off board.

What we plan on doing is presenting a list of objectives sometime in late February, that will be the final objective list for the 40K Championships. We will not releasing missions, just a list of Objectives. The exact combination of objectives per game, as well as deployment options, special rules and anything else will not be published prior to the event. The format of the actual 40K Championships missions will follow these primer missions. You will see one KP/VP objective, one objective/table quarter objective and one oddball objective per mission.

The more I think about these missions the more I like them. It is too early to tell, but I think there is a good chance these could become the new gold standard of tournament missions.

They allow more room for player skill versus simple dumb luck in match-ups. It also allows armies that can't crush other armies outright (like Tau, Crons, etc.) to find ways to win based upon smart play.

Having options in the mission really open up game play. The smart player can see were his weaknesses will be relative to his opponent and the terrain then determine a battle plan to find victory. The chances of "auto-loss" match-ups go way down simply due to the fact that their are multiple ways to win a game.

I really think these have potential. In time and with practice, we could modify these to become standardized tournament missions and help to solidify a national tournament scene.

Mix of these, what Mike is doing with Nova, and a few other ideas and we gots ourselves a gumbo!!!!!

But seriously. I'm glad their up as I start building/painting whatever army I'm taking so I can at least think about it during construction

These look great, best missions I have seen yet for any event. The scoring is a big improvement over the using secondary and tertiary criteria for tiebreakers.

One thing I really like that isn't in these missions is quarters controlled by kill points. It always seems kind of weak for one little dude to hold off an a collection of units from controlling a quarter. If it might be too good for MSU then you can always balance it with another objective or even two.

These are seriously good missions. You will need a an army that can really do everything to win this tournament. Its exciting.

I've been practicing them a lot already. They are fun and challenging.

Love the missions overall, and can't wait to play.

The only thing that bugs me is the randomizing of which table quarter a unit is in if it isn't completely in one quarter at the end of the game.

I know GW have used this method to decide what table quarter a unit is in at the end of the game but IMHO it has no place in a tournament mission. I think you're including it specifically to stop players form sitting their units right on the dividing line until late in the game, but with the inclusion of random game length, players still really have to make a choice before the game ends anyway.

But whenever you're dealing with a big slow unit (like a mob of 30 boyz) you can end up in a situation where 99% of the Boyz are in one quarter but because ONE model isn't, then a roll has to be made and that one roll can often affect the outcome of the entire game.

I just don't understand why tournaments don't go with the basic rule that whatever quarter most of the unit it in is the quarter the unit counts as being in (and only in the extreme case where it cannot be determined THEN a die roll is made to decide).

I personally don't like the idea of a die roll essentially deciding the game because a fraction of one model isn't completely in the quarter.

Some tournaments do just that yak. Suspect input on said point might be well received.

I agree with Yak 100%.

A tournament mission should never be decided by random chance in the missions mechanics itself.

I think that is a change that will only help and make players feel like they will be more in charge of the outcome of their game, not be subject to chance which is endlessly frustrating.

Glad you caught that, as I read over it without processing the same possible scenarios.

I think that'd be a good tweak. In the case of a unit straddling a line, it counts as being in whichever the majority of its models are in. If there is no majority (15 orks one side, 15 orks the other), or it cannot be determined (Rhino full of troops evenly bisected and no micrometer handy ), then you roll to see which it counts as being in.

Of course, both are much more forgiving than the old Dakka league 3rd ed rules of "if you're on the line you get nothing."

People will find a way to take advantage of that though. If it were me I'd say a unit must be completely within a table quarter... No questions then.

I say let them choose! But I'm biased......