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I'm trying to make an eldar army heavy on the Aspect warriors, and one of the things i've seen on these forums are about how some equipment and powers works better then others, i play against an ork mek army and play 2 squads Dire Avengers, 1 squad Fire Dragons, 1 squad Striking Scorpians, 1 squad Warp Spiders, and 1 squad Shining spears. What should i give these exarchs and should i use some different squads?

Dire Avengers ... dual weapons and blade storm
Fire Dragons ... don't really need an exarch they will die any way ... if you do then only bother with tank hunter
Striking Scorpions ... Scorpion claw and biting blades fun (armour claw ... no armour two handed chainsword of doom)
Warpspiders ... dual guns, power weapon and withdraw (?hit and run)
Shining spears ... meh don't like shining spears (might want to make them warlocks ^_^) but give him the Shurican Cannon he's BS4(5?) so's less likely to miss

By "Mek" do you mean mechanized? Or ork meks?
I'm assuming ork mek, so is it a kan wall or mechanized force?
It all depends what he has.

You shouldn't tailor your force anyway. I prefer...

Avengers - As above. Give him two guns and Bladestorm. Against Orks, you don't want them in assault unless the squad they're hitting is really small, or they have support from Scorpions.

Fire Dragons - I like getting the Exarch upgrade for better BS while shooting (I only use minimum-sized squads) and get no upgrades.

Scorpions - I like the 5 pt upgrade that gives him two attacks. Cheap and effective for what they're probably doing anyway (light or small-sized infantry). In the case of Orks, more attacks is WAY more useful than power attacks unless he's running Meganobs, who you should shoot anyway, since they are Slow and Purposeful.

Spiders - An Exarch would be fine, but Hit&Run would be more useful as a back-up plan (They didn't jump far enough and got assaulted). If maneuvered well and barring bad luck, you should be able to jump them around without getting into assault. Keep them shooting at the Orks and you're good. If you want the DS power, go for it. It's preference at this point.

Spears - I also dislike them, but I don't mind taking an Exarch and using them in conjunction with other units to launch multiple units into a mob of boyz to take them down before they can strike back.

Eldar are an army that really benefit from an overall game plan.

Are you running mechdar or footdar or a combination?

That makes a huge difference.

If mechdar, your Dires should be run as stated above, dual shurikats on the exarch with bladestorm. You shoot and scoot with them.

If on foot, they work better with no upgrades as you want them shooting every turn and it saves a lot of points.

Scorps should always have an exarch with claw and infiltrate. Put them in a serpent and you can outflank they whole thing if you want to, or start on board. Very flexible unit.

On foot, run them with the same load-out plus move through cover.

Most people run dragons with no exarch, but I disagree strongly with this. I ALWAYS take the exarch with firepike and crack shot. Why? Because in theory saving the points always sounds nice, and statistically 5 FDs should smoke any vehicle. However, the extra 6" range, BS and most of all, the ability to ignore cover means that for me, the Exarch does more damage, more reliably than the squad. On foot or in a WS I run them in units of 5 with the above exarch and find him too useful to ever not bring.

Warp Spiders don't need an exarch, IMO. He doesn't bring enough to the table to justify his cost. YMMV.

The best use I have found for spears is as a dedicated anti tank unit where they are actually quite good. With lance weapons and strength 6 or 8 attacks on rear armor, running three with an Exarch and star lance means they will shred nearly any vehicle's rear armor 10. Baring these targets, they can hunt things like LFs and Lootas fairly well, although they aren't great at it.

As for the Exarch, the best set up, IMO is on a bike, with lance, melta, and mandi blasters. That gives him the ability to kill tanks, MCs, small squads, and he is super fast. Baring that, take Yriel. If you want to make a foot exarch, run him with a power weapon and the Scorps but don't expect too much from him. He doesn't mesh well with them at all.

Hope that helps. Good luck with the pointy ears.

TheRedArmy wrote:Spiders - An Exarch would be fine, but Hit&Run would be more useful as a back-up plan (They didn't jump far enough and got assaulted). If maneuvered well and barring bad luck, you should be able to jump them around without getting into assault. Keep them shooting at the Orks and you're good. If you want the DS power, go for it.

... Never ever give him the DS power ... they're jump infantry they get it for free now!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reecius wrote:As for the Exarch, the best set up, IMO is on a bike, with lance, melta, and mandi blasters. That gives him the ability to kill tanks, MCs, small squads, and he is super fast. Baring that, take Yriel. If you want to make a foot exarch, run him with a power weapon and the Scorps but don't expect too much from him. He doesn't mesh well with them at all.

? Don't you mean Autarch?

I'm pretty sure he means Autarch.

Ok, so as mentioned above, the choices for what you take with your exarchs vary depending on your playstyle and what list you're running. But in general:

DA- I find a diresword works quite well, you may oftne end up recieving charges and a diresword, coupled with the exarch's high initiative, is good for eliminating a few models to swing the combat in your favour, especially if they are multiwound models. However if you're running an all mech list then the idea is not to let your DA get charged, so it isn't neccessary and you should go with dual catapaults. As for powers, bladestorm is a must.

Fire Dragons- These are the only aspect warriors which i feel do not need an exarch. However i always take one for his increased BS and the fact that i can give the squad tankhunters. If you need to conserve points, a FD exarch is by no means neccessary, but if you're not then take one with tank hunters, and perhaps a firepike for that extra range.

Scorpions- Shadowstrike is absoloutly neccessary imo, and striking scorpions would not be striking scorpions without it. For arming my exarch i usually go for a scorpions claw for that extra punch and also it makes the squad pretty decent tank hunters, and if you really need to strike at normal I value then you still have a chainsword. However if you're fighting orks mainly then chainsabres would be useful. They're cheap and give the exarch 5 attacks on the charge with re-rolls to hit and wound, this often means five wounds, and probably 5 dead orks.

Spiders- Withdraw, extra death spinner and powerblades. This i think is the best way be far to arm him, the spinneret rifle has it's uses but you'll often find that 4 shots outweighs AP1, especially against orks.

Spears- Not a great unit, and not great against orks, but they can move rapidly so are useful for sqinging a combat that's going badly to your favour. I would arm the exarch with a star lance and withdraw, withdraw is essential because, while they are good in CC on the turn they assault, they next to useless in later rounds. A shruiken cannon is ok, but i feel it's another pricey upgrade to an already pricey unit.

Hope this helps!

@Tri
Oops! I did indeed mean Autarch, thanks for pointing that out.

@Eldar Own
Try the FD Exarch with crack shot, I find it invaluable. When the enemy tank pops smoke, goes flat out or is obscured, he ignores it, which dramatically increases the odds of destroying the target. It is also great for those pesky turbo boosting units as he ignores their saves as well.

I found out i might be playing against a fairly balanced force of Space Marines in addition to the orks. So any changes i should make because of that? I didn't need info on Autarchs though, I'm taking two farseers instead.

The Orks use an army with a number of Battlewagons and a Deffdread

Well, shinning spears are excellent for killing battlewagons. That is a perfect target for them. Rear armor 10 open topped means they will most likely destroy them with ease.

The FDs will also obviously shine here. Again, Exarch with firepike and crack shot helps get around the KFF save he should have.

Orks is a pretty straight up game. It sounds like a mixed mech force, so focus on destroying the BW with the mek boy in it first to reduce the KFF save. Then destroy his squad and him to make taking the rest of the army down much easier.

Doom, guide and fortune will be your friends. Send fortuned Scorps into doomed orks and they will cut them down to size rapidly.

Get warp spiders in position for side and rear armor shots and again, guide them and doom a target and you will wreck havoc.

Without knowing the exact lists your up against, general tips is the best we can do. Just try and make sure to focus all of your firepower on taking down one units at a time.

Oh, and Lootas. Eldar hate Lootas. Take them out rapidly, Warp Spiders are great for this.

Good luck.

How to arm Exarchs:

Avengers: Dual Catapults, Bladestorm. No other option is viable, IMO.

Banshees: Executioner, Acrobatic. Triskele, Acrobatic is also viable.
Run the math to see why. Assume you're fighting MEQ and get charge (or don't get charge but have Acrobatic).
With Triskele you kill 0.83 in shooting (1.39 with Doom) and 0.89 in CC (1.48 with Doom). 1.72 total (2.87 with Doom).
With Executioner you kill 0.09 shooting (0.15) and 1.33 in CC (1.78). 1.43 total (1.93).
With Mirrorswords you kill 0 in shooting and 1.11 in CC (1.85). 1.11 total (1.85).
So, Triskele seems to be the best option, but its big drawback is that you can't take advantage of fleet, so will often times not be able to fire and still assault. It's a viable option, but I prefer the Executioner. Acrobatic is a nice upgrade and should be taken whenever possible. War Shout is a waste of points.

Dragons: No exarch!

Scorpions: Biting Blade, Shadowstrike. Stalker optional. Chainsabres, Shadowstrike also viable. Scorpion's Claw is a big mistake. You need the Exarch striking at I6 to soften up the enemy, not I1. And, the Claw is typically no higher S than a Biting Blade. The only advantage it has is that it's a PW, but Scorpions should be going against horde units with junk armor, not against units with excellent armor saves.

Reapers: Tempest Launcher, Crack Shot. EML, Fast Shot also viable, but much worse, IMO.

Hawks: Sunrifle, Intercept. No other options. This is a poor unit that is only good at taking out GEQ and not worth the points, but if you want it, this is the Exarch you should take.

Spiders: Dual Death Spinners or Spinneret Rifle, either works. Give both Powerblades and Withdraw for CC goodness or neither to remain shooty. Surprise Assault is an absolute waste of points (they can DS without it in 5th)

Spears: Cannon, Star Lance, Withdraw. Skilled Rider optional.

Thanks for all the help guys

One last question

Since i recently found out that i might be fighting Space Marines along with Orks should i swap out the squad of 10 Harlequins with a squad of Banshees and a wave serpent?

Oriallis wrote:Thanks for all the help guys

One last question

Since i recently found out that i might be fighting Space Marines along with Orks should i swap out the squad of 10 Harlequins with a squad of Banshees and a wave serpent?

It depends on the rest of your army. Synergy is much more important than one unit vs another. This is especially true for Eldar.

If you're playing mechdar, Harlies shouldn't be in it anyway. Banshees in a WS are always better than Harlies for mech, no matter what you're playing against. But, even then, they aren't all that great. Without an assault vehicle transport, Eldar have a very difficult time using a CC squad in a mech force.

For footdar, don't take a WS. It won't last long being the only vehicle on the board.

If you're running the classic Avatar/Guardians/Wraithlords MC Eldar, stick with Harlies. They stay in front and provide cover. Banshees simply die too quickly.

If you're running a gunline Eldar army (Reapers, lots of Firepower), Banshees can work. They hang in back and charge whatever manages to make it to your line. Although, for this build, I prefer Scorpions to outflank and take out anything you can't get a good shot on.

I agree with most of what Grakmar says, but totally disagree about Harlies.

Harlies are superior to Banshees. Harlies are still one of the best assault units in the game when played correctly. Mine routinely win me games. They will do more damage, are more resilient against almost every target and infinitely more resilient against shooting, are more mobile, can damage vehicles and will in general give you better results. Although played poorly, they drop like flies.

In a mechanized force, they still have a place as you can run 6 in a Falcon. It isn't what it was in 4th ed, but it is still viable.

What you do, is load them up into another unit's WS, such as a guardian defender squad that will sit back on an objective and shoot, and they are good to go. Include a Farsser with doom and fortune (attached characters benefit from Veil) and that squad will butcher nearly anything it hits.

Banshees aren't bad by any means and you can make a strong argument for them in a Mecahnized force (the only time I would use them), and can hit quite hard, but point for point, Harlies out-shine them in nearly every context.

In any kind of foot list, static shooting or otherwise, never take Banshees. Harlies are vastly superior not only for their increased hitting power but because nothing can shoot them until very close! Put them in front of units with Farseers attached to them and now your screening unit is practically invisible along with HQs (average of 14" spotting distance). Harlies can hang back and then charge through terrain with no difficult rolls and smash units that come close. Harlies can also go on the offensive in a Foot list and cross the board if needs be (especially against another shooty list) with a far high degree of survival than would Banshees. Banshees are easy targets in a foot list or as a counter assault unit.

Also, IMO, don't waste points on triskeles or pistols on the harlies. They look great on paper, but in reality I find I am ALWAYS fleeting to make an assault and as such, never use the pistols. This may be different for other players and in a Mech list it is more likely to use them, but I don't bank on it and save the points to use elsewhere. YMMV.

Not meaning any offense here, Grakmar, just positing a counterpoint.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough, try the Exarch on the FDs with crack shot, and firepike. The internet screams bloody murder over this combo as in theory he is a waste of points, but in reality, he is amazing. That extra 6", higher BS and the ability to negate cover are absolutely invaluable. FDs typically shoot once and then die, not if played very well or with lucky saves, but assume this to be the case. Therefore, you must be sure that when they shoot, they destroy their target. Like taking combi weapons in other armies, the Exarch is your ace in the hole to ensure that lucky cover saves, being slightly out of melta range or bad shooting doesn't waste your investment in them. Try both and see what works for you, but I never leave home without him.

Lastly, we should have said this before, but post your entire list, this will help a lot.

The thing is my list is pretty foot-based, however I have a Wave Serpent for the Fire Dragons, along with a pair of Fire Prsims for long range support.

I also have a pair of Farseers, one with Guide, and Fortune and the other with Doom and Mind war.

Finally i have a squad of Guardians (Mostly just because they were in the Battleforce) a trio of Warlocks (conceal,embolden,and destructor on each) for each Farseer, and a trio of Scatter walkers.


Based on this what should i change about my list?

Actually, I'd like to chip in that I've seen Dire Avenger Exarchs with the thing that gives everybody a 5++ and the thing that reduces your opponent's attacks by one is pretty obnoxious.

Units that rely on power weapons/fists to do damage are likely only going to be making a single attack, and even then, between rolling to wound and getting through an invul save, it can be really hard to put down damage that sticks.

Ailaros wrote:Actually, I'd like to chip in that I've seen Dire Avenger Exarchs with the thing that gives everybody a 5++ and the thing that reduces your opponent's attacks by one is pretty obnoxious.

Units that rely on power weapons/fists to do damage are likely only going to be making a single attack, and even then, between rolling to wound and getting through an invul save, it can be really hard to put down damage that sticks.

Shimmer field only gives a 5++ in combat and at 15pts even with a power weapon it will rarely help ... Best bet don't get charged.

Tri wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Actually, I'd like to chip in that I've seen Dire Avenger Exarchs with the thing that gives everybody a 5++ and the thing that reduces your opponent's attacks by one is pretty obnoxious.

Units that rely on power weapons/fists to do damage are likely only going to be making a single attack, and even then, between rolling to wound and getting through an invul save, it can be really hard to put down damage that sticks.

Shimmer field only gives a 5++ in combat and at 15pts even with a power weapon it will rarely help ... Best bet don't get charged.

If i'm in a crazy mood and have 2 full units of DA. They are generally armed like so...

10 Dire avengers, Exarch, Dual cats, Bladestorm.
10 Dire avengers, Exarch, Shimmer shield, Bladestorm, Defend.

If i'm going to end up in combat, i'm not getting charged, i'd rather get my troops killed on my own terms. (Unless the destruction of said unit will pull the enemies units further apart)
After all, the heroic last charge of an Aspect Warrior to protect his/her craftworld is the kind of thing they'll write songs about back home right?
10 Hammernators with fleet (from Shrike) can be a real pain in the *** when your opponent refuses to fail saves.
Throwing Fortune on the shimmer unit, doom on the hammernators and guideing both dire (2 farseers required) can really solve that problem.
...er... maths...
Those two units should throw out 54 BS4 shots and 5 BS5 shots (52.9 hits with guide)
Those hits should result in 39.7 wounds.
So 6.6 dead terminators.
Assuming they do not run away, the DA with shimmer shield then charge in.
Providing 18 normal attacks and 3 power weapon attacks, resulting in... (does maths) a further 1.5 termie deaths.
The 1.9 termies left (who now have 1 attack each) will kill 0.35 of the DA.
You win by 1, termies hold, then something else arrives to save the DA, or maybe they could finish the last 1.9 off.

TBH, if my enemies rolled "statistically" i think i'd die of a heart attack...

dayve110 wrote:

Tri wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Actually, I'd like to chip in that I've seen Dire Avenger Exarchs with the thing that gives everybody a 5++ and the thing that reduces your opponent's attacks by one is pretty obnoxious.

Units that rely on power weapons/fists to do damage are likely only going to be making a single attack, and even then, between rolling to wound and getting through an invul save, it can be really hard to put down damage that sticks.

Shimmer field only gives a 5++ in combat and at 15pts even with a power weapon it will rarely help ... Best bet don't get charged.

If i'm in a crazy mood and have 2 full units of DA. They are generally armed like so...

10 Dire avengers, Exarch, Dual cats, Bladestorm.
10 Dire avengers, Exarch, Shimmer shield, Bladestorm, Defend.

If i'm going to end up in combat, i'm not getting charged, i'd rather get my troops killed on my own terms. (Unless the destruction of said unit will pull the enemies units further apart)
After all, the heroic last charge of an Aspect Warrior to protect his/her craftworld is the kind of thing they'll write songs about back home right?
10 Hammernators with fleet (from Shrike) can be a real pain in the *** when your opponent refuses to fail saves.

I feel that fleeting Termination are rather rare ... but when you do see them they normally are popping out of a land raider so its fairly rare to get to shoot them (Infiltrating terminators does happen but really that just means they take a beating from everything). If they were on foot then I'd take my chances falling back shooting.

Tri wrote: I feel that fleeting Termination are rather rare ... but when you do see them they normally are popping out of a land raider so its fairly rare to get to shoot them (Infiltrating terminators does happen but really that just means they take a beating from everything). If they were on foot then I'd take my chances falling back shooting.

It's starting to happen more frequently at the FLGS since some of the "new blood" graduated to veterans night with all their oddly composed lists.
Plus, if i can take them out that way, i can safely take out anything providing mobility and firepower in the rest of the force, confident in my abilities to take out the hammernaters later on.
But thats only when running 2 DA max units.
Usually its just one BS/dual or MSU in serpents.

But... I've found a worthwhile use for the shimmersheild (it also works well against other match ups), its not for everyone, but the point is IT CAN be useful.

Just dont take the diresword...

Plus, given defend and shimmershield, you now have something that can act as a tarpit once its bladestormed. The only other way to accomplish this is with 10-bot squads of wraithguard, which are a fair sight more expensive than a 15 point upgrade.

Not necessary, of course, but not worthless either.

I agree with Reecius. Crackshot with the FD exarch negates those pesky smoke launchers that all the MEQ's have on their rhino's as well. Nothing erases whole units from the table faster than blowing up the MEQ transport and charging them with Harlies.

On the DA with Defend and Shimmershield, they can be an effective tarpit, and led by Asurmen, they can actually put quite the hurt out too! And it's hella fun.

Playing styles differ. I do use wraith-guard (troop choice) simply for the fact there has not been a game that's end with them destroyed. My DA are set up purely to shoot; I don't need or want them in combat.

Personally I shy away from close combat of all types with the only units regularly being sent to the slaughter my storm guardians and fire dragons. Banshee are about the only unit I would think of taking as they can be relied upon to go first and make all of their attacks.