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So I'm a new 40k player and just picked the DE because they looked cool. I then spent a bit over $100 on models, the right paints, and the codex. Unfortunately, I can't return any of it, because I bought it all on vacation. Plus, I've already assembled and painted the models, so I couldn't really even sell them on eBay (especially since I didn't do that great of a paint job). I could probably get my $30 back for the codex, but that's about it.

What brought all this on is that I've been hearing more and more about how the DE are not a good choice for beginners because of how fragile they are and how unforgiving they'll be as an army if you screw up. Whereas the Space Marines are supposed to be a great choice.

Now, I've always been a fickle table-top gamer, hating to make tough decisions, going through innumerable character sheets in an hour trying to decide on the right one, but that was no problem. D&D is cheap (relatively). 40k is not. Unless you're rich, which I am not, you can't afford to play several different armies (at least, not when first starting out).

So you can see I'm in a bad situation. I've tried to convince myself that I'll like DE, and I do think they're very cool, but I just don't think I'll have fun playing them, and I know I'll be a lot more unhappy if I force myself to sink the rest of my money into building a DE army instead of just selling what I can, accepting that I've wasted a lot of money, and moving onto Space Marines.

But then, sometimes I do think I've made the right choice.

But there's always a nagging doubt in the back of my mind.

Gah, I suck at making tough decisions. Please help me. What should I do?

Stick through it. You will learn the army. You did what most players do (including myself) and pick an army based on how it looks. Honestly I think that is the best way to pick an army. After all, these are models!

Will I want to stick with the army after I learn it?

First question I will ask. Have you even ever played a single game with what you have?

You sound like you haven't. Play some games first before you let other people influence you.

That said, picking an army you think is cool is always better than picking one that is not.

TBQH, if you are unhappy with your investment, I'm not going to say stick it out. If there is even one doubt about your army, you will probably just not like it. You don't need to convince yourself about which army to like. You should kind of "like them" from the getgo.

I picked Eldar as a Starting Army (and its currently my only army too.) and I have had absolutely no problem, and infact, am doing quite well with them.

play a few games with a 5-10 sized squad and see if you have fun. If you do, it works! If not, consider it practice for your painting!

No, I've never played. And unfortunately, I am easily influenced when it comes to gaming. I should say, I am easily inspired. I don't just do what people tell me, in fact I am one of the most stubborn people I know, but if I read one good description of something or watch a movie or read a book about something, I become instantly inspired towards that thing and forget everything else until something else inspires me. For instance, in the last few minutes, I've been reading about DE fans discuss them and their praise for the army has made be want to pick it up again.

Poor, easily-inspired me :(

Captain Pain wrote:No, I've never played. And unfortunately, I am easily influenced when it comes to gaming. I should say, I am easily inspired. I don't just do what people tell me, in fact I am one of the most stubborn people I know, but if I read one good description of something or watch a movie or read a book about something, I become instantly inspired towards that thing and forget everything else until something else inspires me. For instance, in the last few minutes, I've been reading about DE fans discuss them and their praise for the army has made be want to pick it up again.

Poor, easily-inspired me :(

(in a less racist brave heart manner) The dark eldar are vampires! they are faster than slaanesh, and can be tougher than space marines! (3+ save and FNP ftw!) they are the best and kick the rest! now go! go and paint for battle! [insert warcry]

inspired? :p and remember we have one of the best antitank weapons! dark lances!

Try playing a few games with your Dark Eldar. If you find you don't like them, shelve them for now, and try a differnt army. Perhaps after you've learned the game system you may want to play them, or you may not.

Blitza da warboy wrote:

Captain Pain wrote:No, I've never played. And unfortunately, I am easily influenced when it comes to gaming. I should say, I am easily inspired. I don't just do what people tell me, in fact I am one of the most stubborn people I know, but if I read one good description of something or watch a movie or read a book about something, I become instantly inspired towards that thing and forget everything else until something else inspires me. For instance, in the last few minutes, I've been reading about DE fans discuss them and their praise for the army has made be want to pick it up again.

Poor, easily-inspired me :(

(in a less racist brave heart manner) The dark eldar are vampires! they are faster than slaanesh, and can be tougher than space marines! (3+ save and FNP ftw!) they are the best and kick the rest! now go! go and paint for battle! [insert warcry]

inspired? :p and remember we have one of the best antitank weapons! dark lances!

Yay! You have inspired me to slaughter and revel in depravity with my Dark Eldar! (I love Braveheart!)

The rest of you, stop showering me in log and reason

Perhaps I was simply seeking justification all along...

If you really want to play Space Marines, go pick up the Assault on Black Reach set. It comes with a decently sized force for Space Marines and contains the manditory Core rulebook (the set is also great value for what you get). It's slightly more expensive than the big tomb book, but it gives you the models to start off those armies if you ever decide to go that direction. The Space Marine force in it is also moderately balanced and can be tweeked into a good 1000 point fighting force easily (you will need to buy another tactical squad to make it a legal army however).

The Dark Eldar, however, are not something to be underestimated. You will have difficulties in the beginning, mainly making bad choices where you get the crap blown out of you more easily than any other army, but they are very rewarding when they do pay off. Just remember to rely on cover, utilize transports for speed, and close in the distance, but refrain from actually charging in unless the unit is designed for close combat (while all DE have initiative 5, that's about where the generic CC perks end).

I started with Tyranids, and still play them, but cooled on the after our new codex, and went downright icy after the FAQ. Not getting rid of them just yet though.

When AOBR came out i couldn't care less, as i played neither orks nor Marines. I now have nearly 11,000 points of orks (nearly none painted.. working on that as a new years resolution)

Something just clicked, and I got inspired I've lost easily as many games as I won until recently, but I've had a blast learning to play them. It's impossible to pick up any army overnight, and until you have won with them a few times, and lost a few more you'll not know whether you like their playstyle, or what to avoid.

Dark eldar (my main opponent when i got back into 40K, and one off 3 with Craftworld eldar and Spacewoofs these days) are a brutal, fast, ludicrously overpowered/ overstatted, fragile, delicate, complex army.

They can reduce a mech-guard army to slag on turn one, with luck, or be blown out of the sky in the same amouunt of time, with poor luck. They are a very all-or-nothing army. Not terribly forgiving of mistakes (like trying to treat their vehicles as tanks, or using warriors as cc troops) but pretty easy to learn, and damaging enough to scare the cud out of the opponent as few other armies can.

In short, don't be a victim of 'impressionable as warm wax' syndrome (i am a terminal case at times) until you actually play a few games.

If you want to try reliable, forgiving, and easy to play, but rather characterless i'd borrow someone's Marine codex and play them before dumping all your stuff for a new army.

If you're still committed to being rid of them after playing them a few times PM me, and I might take them off your hands (baaad case of army add) but give them a chance to impress you first

I'm a long time DE player. As has already been said, play a few games first. However, if you have lingering doubts then cut your losses and move onto something else. Your admission to being 'easily inspired' also makes me believe you'll be 'easily discouraged'. If you are unable to disassociate having fun playing the game with winning and losing, you likely won't like any army in the end.

I started with Necrons, friend of mine started with DH. Both extremely outdated codexes that are supposedly rather hard to play well. Were early games rather unforgiving? Absolutely. But was it also alot of a fun with the challenge? Again, Yes.

The point is that choosing the easiest to start with army is not always the best choice. You said you liked the look of the DE and if you do, stick with it. They're a fun army to see fielded and to play.

I started playing around 3-4 months ago.

Bought AoBR set. I took the SM because I thought they looked awesome. My brother took Orks.

A month in to playing (after buying Codex, Librarian in Terminator armor, and two more Tacticals) I decided I hated SM. So boring to me.

My brother never fielded the Orks. He really wanted to play CSM. He has no job to purchase a new army. So I have been trying to fund both new armies.

Here we are three months later on a budget of about $25 every two weeks and have a nice start to our new armies (he's at a little over 1200 pts CSM and I'm at 796 Necrons). We play small games because of the mistake we made but I know that 40k is a hobby that is all about the long term. Even if you suffer now buy what you want to play a year from now.

I wouldn't give up on an army because of what the internet says though. Sure DE are kind of complex but one day that'll be a good thing to you.

Buy/play what the models you like and what fluff you like. Never what the internet says.

I'd give it some time, like most others, if you don't like how they play shelve them or sell them.

They are harsh, but once mastered are great.

stalkerzero, did you give your bro the SMs you had? Cuz you can convert those into CSM and save some money in the longrun (given that you fund his endeavour anyways, it shouldnt be that different).

Picking an army because you like the fluff/appearance/feel is almost always the best way to start. It gives you the motivation to paint, and to stick with the army while you learn it.

No matter which army you pick, you'll get your butt kicked by experienced players when you're starting. Loving your army and its feel will give you the motivation to persevere through it and learn your army so you can start kicking butt yourself.

I started as Necrons... this is an army that has a 7-8 year old codex now (2 editions old... ) and I've sunk over $600 into them. When I bought the first battleforce and HQ, I did have that sinking feeling of regret knowing I will have an uphill battle. Since I've invested so much time into the army though, I not only know its an investment with a codex in the future (not holding my breath for its release though ), and I find every victory I win so much more sweet.

Like the DE, Necrons require a lot of management and skill to win, and you'll likely have a much higher advantage as a DE player vs necron, so you're already a step ahead of me

Truthfully man, if you enjoy the way the army looks, and you like their lore - STICK WITH IT. If you go something generic that you enjoy, but don't love - you won't have fun building, painting, or playing the troops.

Read lots of posts on various forums for suggestions, goto GW meets if you have them in your town and just learn from other players. Luckily , with an older codex there are TONS of battle reports to watch on youtube for me and I learned a TON of new tricks. I imagine it's only a matter of time before Beasts of War do a Dark Eldar week and review a lot of the units and provide quality feedback and advice.

All the best , and my recommendation is stay with em and enjoy the game. Hard to master, but when you do, DE's are effing lethal

Edit: I'll also add, the internet in general is a negative place. There are a lot of nay-sayers for everything. People will bash the tau, necrons, space marines, orks (though not on this forum ) , tyranids, regular eldar, etc. If I took all those threads at 100% face value, there's no way in hell I would have started playing this game

For the record, my current Nid army only has Trygons and Zoans as the "cookie cutter" units. My Hive Guards are still being built and I actually use the Venom Cannon on the Hive Tyrant (mainly because I'm too lazy to change it. I never use it anyways) and half the time I forget his psychic powers. And the lone trygon i use is what most people dislike too: a Prime with Regen. However my nid army hasn't lost a single battle to date.

On the other side of the spectrum, I run Oblits, Sorcerors with lash, Plague Marines, and Berserkers in my Chaos army, all of whom are rated as some of the best units in the book. I have won ONE game to date with them, and that was because I was up against gunline guard, who could barely penetrate my T5, let alone actually get past my armor save and FnP. And in the end, it would have been a tie if the guy didnt give up. The Dice gods can and will be fickled, so dont get tricked by the experience of others. It's your army, make it uniquely yours.

Captain Pain wrote:So I'm a new 40k player and just picked the DE because they looked cool. I then spent a bit over $100 on models, the right paints, and the codex. Unfortunately, I can't return any of it, because I bought it all on vacation. Plus, I've already assembled and painted the models, so I couldn't really even sell them on eBay (especially since I didn't do that great of a paint job). I could probably get my $30 back for the codex, but that's about it.

What brought all this on is that I've been hearing more and more about how the DE are not a good choice for beginners because of how fragile they are and how unforgiving they'll be as an army if you screw up. Whereas the Space Marines are supposed to be a great choice.

Now, I've always been a fickle table-top gamer, hating to make tough decisions, going through innumerable character sheets in an hour trying to decide on the right one, but that was no problem. D&D is cheap (relatively). 40k is not. Unless you're rich, which I am not, you can't afford to play several different armies (at least, not when first starting out).

So you can see I'm in a bad situation. I've tried to convince myself that I'll like DE, and I do think they're very cool, but I just don't think I'll have fun playing them, and I know I'll be a lot more unhappy if I force myself to sink the rest of my money into building a DE army instead of just selling what I can, accepting that I've wasted a lot of money, and moving onto Space Marines.

But then, sometimes I do think I've made the right choice.

But there's always a nagging doubt in the back of my mind.

Gah, I suck at making tough decisions. Please help me. What should I do?

Drop back on spending any more and play a few small games with what you have. Seriously.

If you can hold off buying until you figure out what your army can actually do with what you have on hand, then you arn't going to do any better spending over 100.00 more on something else, such as a Tank army, or an horde army.

Dark Eldar are just the new kidz, no better or worse then any other army. I have a rather large army of DE from back in the 3d edition. I picked up everyone elses DE squads from thier boxed sets, (because people outright didn't like them.) Later on, after fielding them, adding some of the serious close combat, jetbike, and long range S and M love, did I have a little fun with them.
I think I started out with a couple of 16 man squads, then added a few more boxs, then with something or another attached, then addd in some of the heavy weapon guys Etc.Etc... When I figured out that those shard rifles they had had some range and AP love, the worm turned and massed firepower was king. It was really something to see enemy squads whittle down as they crossed the table. Not to mention the amount of dice... mmmmm

What do you have for units, by the way?

Stop buying till you decide.

Play some games.

If you still dont like them, start a new army while your ahead.

And when i say start a new army.. get maybe 1 unit.. playtest with some proxies.. then get the army.

I bought DE as my first army because I could get them cheap from a friend. It didn't matter how much money I pumped in I couldn't win (nearly three years of getting face-stomped). I ended up quitting warhammer because of it.

If you are easily discouraged play something that is more forgiving.

That or play smarter. I got back into warhammer when someone in a gaming club contacted me, telling me a new DE codex was coming out. I love warhammer again but to be successful you need to play smart. Don't buy what is pretty. This is dark eldar not space wolves. Play dirty, find loop holes, and rape some slaves. Quit being a girl and like everyone says, proxy out some games and figure out what works. If you don't have fun it is not for you.

Captain Pain wrote:So I'm a new 40k player and just picked the DE because they looked cool. I then spent a bit over $100 on models, the right paints, and the codex. Unfortunately, I can't return any of it, because I bought it all on vacation. Plus, I've already assembled and painted the models, so I couldn't really even sell them on eBay (especially since I didn't do that great of a paint job). I could probably get my $30 back for the codex, but that's about it.

You buy it, you keep it. Move on.

What brought all this on is that I've been hearing more and more about how the DE are not a good choice for beginners because of how fragile they are and how unforgiving they'll be as an army if you screw up. Whereas the Space Marines are supposed to be a great choice.

I read in another post how you say you are easily swayed. I know what your problem is..

GET OFF 40k FORUMS NOW!!!!

What you hear online is NOT what happens in most gamer's lives. You are reading how bad DE are from people who 1) haven't played DE and like to armchair quaterback and 2) heard from people who are new to DE and have failed to grasp that the army is not a beginners army, and have quit, probably to Marines like soo many other inexperienced kids.

You need to find a group, and stick with it. Stop reading all this garbage on the internet because most of it is not true at all. All you read on here is about tournaments, but tournament play is roughly 1% of all games played in the hobby across the globe. Most people play for FUN and do so in their living rooms, game stores or garages.

Now, I've always been a fickle table-top gamer, hating to make tough decisions, going through innumerable character sheets in an hour trying to decide on the right one, but that was no problem. D&D is cheap (relatively). 40k is not. Unless you're rich, which I am not, you can't afford to play several different armies (at least, not when first starting out).

Well, if this is your reason, then I would agree with you. most other armies you read online, like IG, Chaos, Marines, have poorly written codices in which only have a few good units. The Dalr Eldar codex, which is the best written codex, like, ever, has EVERY single unit usable! I have been playing DE for 13 years, and even I find myself trying to figure out what to use with the new book since everything is soo good.

If you want to narrow your brain a bit, go with a marine army.

So you can see I'm in a bad situation. I've tried to convince myself that I'll like DE, and I do think they're very cool, but I just don't think I'll have fun playing them, and I know I'll be a lot more unhappy if I force myself to sink the rest of my money into building a DE army instead of just selling what I can, accepting that I've wasted a lot of money, and moving onto Space Marines.

I must ask, how old are you? As you get older, you'll learn in life that you won't like something unless you try it. Now I am sure some tool is going to respond to me "Well, I know I wont like walking on lava", but I am sure you understand where I am getting at. Just play the army about 30 times and you'll have an idea about whether you like it or not.

But then, sometimes I do think I've made the right choice.

You did. You picked up GWs best written, best balanced codex ever. Now, it is not an easy army to learn, and you will lose A LOT, but as long as you have fun with people who make the games fun for you, you'll get better over time.

Gah, I suck at making tough decisions. Please help me. What should I do?

Find a friend, and play a game.

Something else you need to consider is 40k is a local game, not a global game. While other people might have problems with units because whoever they are playing can easily beat them, you might have the complete opposite experience.

Take Tyranids. Trygons are a far better choice than Carnifexes, on a statline and point based comparison, but I saw no issues really since model size gave the Carnifex a benefit the Trygon clearly didn't, but no one used Carnifexes. Until I realized that, whenever I see logs of people playing online, they're using barely any terrain. Nothing higher than a barricade and a few forests, nothing to break line of sight.

My gaming group uses lots of terrain, stuff that could easily hide a Carnifex, while a Trygon would still be quite visible and attract fire. This is when I realized reading other peoples experiences with units it pointless, just based on what you're gaming group has for terrain, and also what sort of armies people in your group like to run.

I think he's already made his decision on staying with DE, since he has another thread up about how to paint them. However just to tack a bit more onto what Loki has said, the internet reflects the metagame, and generally it also reflects all-comers lists. It's not going to take into consideration who you face, because it considers that you will face everyone with a single list, with no changes whatsoever. Like I was discussion with another member about Sporemines, they and Biovores are a horrible buy to go into an all-comers list, as Tyrannofexes and Trygons are infinitely better, even if they are more expensive. However I know my friend loves to bring ID weapons and play horde Eldar. Nothing ruins such an army more than dropping S4 AP4 pieplated everywhere, and nothing in the nid codex does it better than the Biovores. We also play Annhilation, so I can divert points away from my troops section to fuel the more killy parts of my list. Play a generic list until you find out what your group's specialties are, and what their weaknesses are too, then tailor your list to exploit them to the fullest. Who knows, maybe you'll face alot of Tyranid MCs or Daemons with multi-wounds, which DEs excel at pummeling due to having Poisoned range weapons.