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Why is it that normal Tactical Squads can't take Heavy Flamers as a heavy weapons choice? I mean sisters of battle get them he'll even guard command squads get them. I just cant see why HF aren't available for Tac Squads. I think it would be pretty beastie to have a Flamer and heavy Flamer in the same squad and also a combi Flamer that would be sick against nids ork or even guard. It could be an awesome free heavy weapon choice for Tac Squads.

for one, im not sure this should be in you made da call, maybe ask a mod to move it to general?

Secondly, although its called a heavy flamer, it is an assult weapon, so if anything i could see it taking up the same spot as a flamer/melta/plasma/etc. Although, maybe the reason they dont have it their, is because they didnt want you to have both for whatever reasons.



EDIT: Hurp a Durp, my mistake, this isnt even in you made da call, still not sure its really a matter for tactics

Sure SoB can get a Heavy Flamer. Really the choices are 1-2 Stormbolter, Flamer or Meltagun. The Heavy Flamer replaces the spot of a Flamer.

The Marines however get the choice of Flamer, Meltagun, Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, Multi-Melta, Lascannon, Plasmacannon and Heavybolter. The Sergeant can take a Stormbolter too if they wanted to really. The Marines don't really need it in the tacticals at all as they have enough options.

Generally the SoB are mid to short ranged. No infantry (I'm talking about pure SoB, not the shoehorned, watered down copy and pasted units from DH) can get weapons that have a range over 36" and the only template the army will really use is the Flamer one. Therefore it fits in with the army. I guess they may have thought that the marines didn't need it.

By the way, a Space wolf player can field a wolfguard termie with heavy flamer as leader of an "ordinary" marines unit. On the other hand, the wolfes dont get any heavy weapons in their squads by any other way. Still you can get 10 grey hunters with 2 flamers and a terminator leader with heavy flamer for some nice xeno frying.

Still I could see Salamader, Firehawks, or any flame oriented marine army who having a HF in the Tac squads would add more to the fluff. And seeing it as an assualt weapon that would be great for point capturing Tac Squads, use the Flamer, Combi Flamer, and Heavy flamer to burn through the objective holders and then assualt whats left. I also thing it would be a good idea to let Devastators use Heavy Flamers aswell for anti horde.

I guess balance seeing that HF are assault weapons instead of heavy. 3-4 salamander tac squads with TL Meltaguns and HF would be a very deadly choice (well depending on how they would price the HF)

If it were given a price probably would be 5pts at most

Thematically, yea marines ought to have them!

Practically the argument could be made, why dont they, but by that logic I think all terminators ought to carry plasma rifles!

They sort of have it...

The specialists can have them, see Sternguard! You could do 2 heavy flamers and 3 combi flamers in a drop pod!

Dreads are not bad either, if you love them so much!

Tac squads can get HFs, they just don't have them on sprue

Warmastersolon wrote:Tac squads can get HFs, they just don't have them on sprue

We must have a completely different codex then

I think you could put them on a razorback, for a tac squad to get them, even as twin linked but, that's probably not worth 70 points...

It'd probably be too expensive if they did it anyway, although it does seem bizarre that IG veterans can deploy with a weapon that the Emperor's Finest can't.

Warmastersolon wrote:Tac squads can get HFs, they just don't have them on sprue

...page #?.

Yes, it is a bit baffling. IMO salamnders should get them, maybe for 10 or 15 points. Not too cheap to be OP, but hopefully useable. The Guard HF's are cute, but thats about it. 20 points is just too painful for a weapon that will probably only fire once or twice per game.

MekanobSamael wrote:although it does seem bizarre that IG veterans can deploy with a weapon that the Emperor's Finest can't.

I dont get it. You say the emperors finest cant get a HF yet you clearly mention that imperial veterans can get them.

Walrus wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:although it does seem bizarre that IG veterans can deploy with a weapon that the Emperor's Finest can't.

I dont get it. You say the emperors finest cant get a HF yet you clearly mention that imperial veterans can get them.

As one Walrus to another, I have to urge you to lower your voice when speaking such heresies. The Inquisition is everywhere, and they don't like cheeky guardsmen...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:...cheeky guardsmen...

That's funny. Koo koo ka Choo.

Walrus wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:although it does seem bizarre that IG veterans can deploy with a weapon that the Emperor's Finest can't.

I dont get it. You say the emperors finest cant get a HF yet you clearly mention that imperial veterans can get them.

Don't be ridiculous.

Veteran guardsmen are NOT the Emperor's finest. They are his black sheep, not his rams--a rare and curious part of his flock, but neither superior nor essential.

Marines do get them.

Sternguard Vets can Take 2. you can have a 5 man unit with 2 heavy flamers to toast some orks with.

It's probably a balance issue? I usually take one in my sternguard squad that accompanies my librarian in a rhino. Then I have a mobile flamer mobile (HF + the Avenger psychic power). If I could have that on all my tacticals I might just run them in rhinos instead of combat squading the heavy weapon.

Riddick40k wrote:Why is it that normal Tactical Squads can't take Heavy Flamers as a heavy weapons choice? I mean sisters of battle get them he'll even guard command squads get them. I just cant see why HF aren't available for Tac Squads. I think it would be pretty beastie to have a Flamer and heavy Flamer in the same squad and also a combi Flamer that would be sick against nids ork or even guard. It could be an awesome free heavy weapon choice for Tac Squads.

I think you pretty much answered your own question. It's entirely a question of balance. Sisters have them because flamers are their thing (and with DG is what makes them not utterly terrible) and Guard Command and Veteran squads have them because they function in a Guard army the way Sternguard function in a Marine army. If you had a heavy flamer as a heavy weapon choice (note that they're a special weapon in an IG Vet squad and you can only have 1) in a Tac squad, especially if it were some ridiculously low price like 5 points or even free I'd be surprised if most Marine armies didn't consist mostly of Tac squads running around flaming everything to death.

Well they do have the flamer already, so its not like they are in need of a template weapon. Plus it would mess with the whole 1 special weapon 1 heavy weapon thing. Cause all the special weapons are under 24" and all the heavy weapons are over 24". That is the distinction I see. So to have two alternate weapons under 24" in the vanilla tac squad would, on GWs part, be rediculous. Plus sisters get them because the whole perdition thing is their shtick.

tuebor wrote:

Riddick40k wrote:Why is it that normal Tactical Squads can't take Heavy Flamers as a heavy weapons choice? I mean sisters of battle get them he'll even guard command squads get them. I just cant see why HF aren't available for Tac Squads. I think it would be pretty beastie to have a Flamer and heavy Flamer in the same squad and also a combi Flamer that would be sick against nids ork or even guard. It could be an awesome free heavy weapon choice for Tac Squads.

I think you pretty much answered your own question. It's entirely a question of balance. Sisters have them because flamers are their thing (and with DG is what makes them not utterly terrible) and Guard Command and Veteran squads have them because they function in a Guard army the way Sternguard function in a Marine army. If you had a heavy flamer as a heavy weapon choice (note that they're a special weapon in an IG Vet squad and you can only have 1) in a Tac squad, especially if it were some ridiculously low price like 5 points or even free I'd be surprised if most Marine armies didn't consist mostly of Tac squads running around flaming everything to death.

Hey, sisters don't need to DG to be good. 2x special weapons per squad + 11 point BS4 power armor is what makes them good. DG makes up for their lack of long range (if you are going to get that close, you better kill them)

That being said, it is sad that the space marines don't get all the toys that everybody thinks they deserve.

All kidding aside, there is probably some Ultra Smurf reason for not having 2 flame weapons in the same squad. Might be "tactically inflexible" (in a tactical squad? Can't Be Allowed). As for the reasons why salamander or other thematic armies don't get them, it is because Calgar is their spiritual liege.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Walrus wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:although it does seem bizarre that IG veterans can deploy with a weapon that the Emperor's Finest can't.

I dont get it. You say the emperors finest cant get a HF yet you clearly mention that imperial veterans can get them.

As one Walrus to another, I have to urge you to lower your voice when speaking such heresies. The Inquisition is everywhere, and they don't like cheeky guardsmen...

If arrogance is heresy the universe is being purged. While the marines may get the glory at the end of the day they can do nothing without the men and women of the guard that do the real fighting and burning with their heavy flamers that the marines cant have.

Weird thing is sternguard can get heavy flamers.

Because they are Heavy Flamers duh.

It's a balance issue.

Tactical Squads would become a deadly assault unit.

with Vulkan you could have 2-3 Tac squads with Flamers and Heavy flamers marching forward, double flaming a unit and then assaulting it for good measure.

then a couple of Melta gun and Heavy flamer units for some anti-tank duties.

it would be very powerful.