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Hi all

I'm only just back into 40k after 14-15 years in the bitter wilderness. Honestly, for any doubters out there, 40k is better than women.

Anyhow I've started up a pretty nice DH army. I have an inquisitor and pick between an Eversor and Vindicare assassin depending on the opposing army. I also have an allied witch hunters contingent. Now in your learned opinions, do you think it is acceptable to field an assassin as an elite choice for both my DH & my allied WH's? Obviously I would include the required inquisitor for each. The codices are pretty specific when it comes to only allowing one assassin per army, but does that take allied armies into account?

Thing is I really enjoy using the Vindicare and Eversor assassins and I always feel sorry for the little chap I leave out. These people have feelings and I'm the caring sort.

Thanks in advance.

Women are way better than 40k.... most the times, in small increments.

Anyways, take your HQ as an inquisitor, and your allied HQ as an inquisitor and that allows you two assassins as far as i know. I would also go to assume that it would allow you to take two of the same assassins. (two vindicares baby.... the glory)

Then again, i do not have the codices in front of me atm so i might be wrong.

You might have a problem with your plan. You can only use 1 Elite selection as a WH allied list and your plan would require 2 selections (the inquis and the assassin). Nena97 is correct if you took your WH inquis as an HQ then you could take an assassin as your WH elite choice.

Also, since you're just getting back into the hobby, I thought I should point this out:

DH are rumored to be the next codex to be updated (and WH are in the works as well). Consider waiting a short while before committing too hard to a specific build. It's unlikely that Allies will still be allowed, and there should be a whole new awesome line of plastic minitures for much more bang for your $.

Vargas79 wrote:The codices are pretty specific when it comes to only allowing one assassin per army, but does that take allied armies into account?

Allies picked in this way are certainly part of your army, they take up FOC slots and all. One, no matter how many inquisitors you have.

There is also the caveat under the assassins entry.

No more than one (temple) assassin per army, ever.

So no, can't be done.

Spetulhu wrote:

Vargas79 wrote:The codices are pretty specific when it comes to only allowing one assassin per army, but does that take allied armies into account?

Allies picked in this way are certainly part of your army, they take up FOC slots and all. One, no matter how many inquisitors you have.

I would disagree.

The DH and WH FAQs deal with the other version of this plan, which is to take a DH Inquisitor and a WH Assassin, or other combinations where an Inquisitor is required to 'unlock' a unit, and point out that it doesn't work because the units in each codex are distinct, separate entities that just happen to share a name. The rules from one book do not apply to another book.

The same logic applies here. A DH Assassin is not a WH Assassin. If the limits and requirements of one codex do not apply to the other (as specified by the FAQ) it is perfectly legal to have both a DH and WH Assassin in the same army.



Having said that, it is the sort of thing that is likely to raise grumbles, as many players do see the 'only one Assassin' as an absolute. And as pointed out, it's likely to be a short-lived army option.

insaniak wrote:The same logic applies here. A DH Assassin is not a WH Assassin. If the limits and requirements of one codex do not apply to the other (as specified by the FAQ) it is perfectly legal to have both a DH and WH Assassin in the same army.



Having said that, it is the sort of thing that is likely to raise grumbles, as many players do see the 'only one Assassin' as an absolute. And as pointed out, it's likely to be a short-lived army option.

agreed. while i do see some basis for the argument against, rules and restriction in one codex don't generally affect another. that being said, you'd be using up a heck of alot of slots to do it. you'd have to take an inquisitor lord (hq) and a DH assassin and then an inquisitor or inq lord ally (elite or hq respectively) with a second WH assassin. You're using up 4 slots to pull of the trick.

insaniak wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

Vargas79 wrote:The codices are pretty specific when it comes to only allowing one assassin per army, but does that take allied armies into account?

Allies picked in this way are certainly part of your army, they take up FOC slots and all. One, no matter how many inquisitors you have.

Having said that, it is the sort of thing that is likely to raise grumbles, as many players do see the 'only one Assassin' as an absolute. And as pointed out, it's likely to be a short-lived army option.

Cheers chaps.

Yeah I agree about the potential grumbles. I think I'll simply run it by whoever I happen to be playing against to see if they have an issue.


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warboss wrote:

insaniak wrote:The same logic applies here. A DH Assassin is not a WH Assassin. If the limits and requirements of one codex do not apply to the other (as specified by the FAQ) it is perfectly legal to have both a DH and WH Assassin in the same army.



Having said that, it is the sort of thing that is likely to raise grumbles, as many players do see the 'only one Assassin' as an absolute. And as pointed out, it's likely to be a short-lived army option.

agreed. while i do see some basis for the argument against, rules and restriction in one codex don't generally affect another. that being said, you'd be using up a heck of alot of slots to do it. you'd have to take an inquisitor lord (hq) and a DH assassin and then an inquisitor or inq lord ally (elite or hq respectively) with a second WH assassin. You're using up 4 slots to pull of the trick.

It's not really an issue for me as I already use Karamazov for the Witch Hunters HQ (not that effective but an amazing figurehead for the army - although oppy's seem to get fixiated in shooting him and he can take a fair bit of damage before he goes down) and a DH inquisitor set up as a heavy weapons elite unit. It's just the additional elite spots the assassins take up and I don't have any other units at this point to fill the gaps.

It does say "only one assassin in a force no matter what". Call it what you will, if you take two you do break the rules in both codexes.

Spetulhu wrote:It does say "only one assassin in a force no matter what". Call it what you will, if you take two you do break the rules in both codexes.

hrmm... i'll have to do an about face on this. i remembered the only 1 restriction but not that it was worded so strongly. "no more than one... can be used in any force for any reason". i remembered it as similar to the 0-1 restrictions some codices have on units and not so blunt and forceful (how inquisitorial!!). I'm revise my position to taking two in once force org chart is not allowed. You'd have to have a second force org chart or play apoc to have more than one.

Wasn't there a rumor that the 0-1 Unit restriction on assassins would be eliminated? Might get lucky witht the new codex

Spetulhu wrote:It does say "only one assassin in a force no matter what". Call it what you will, if you take two you do break the rules in both codexes.

Yes... but the point being made, based on the FAQ, is that where the DH codex says 'only one assassin' it inherently means 'only one Daemon Hunters assassin'... because the rules in the DH codex are self contained, and don't refer to other units with the same name from other codexes.

If having a WH Inquisitor doesn't count as having an Inquisitor in your force for the purposes of DH units that need an Inquisitor present in order to join the battle, then having a WH assassin doesn't count as having an assassin in your force for the purposes of determining if you can have a DH assassin.

While I'd like to agree with you Insaniak but, I have a problem with your stand. The gist of the matter is, according to my Witch Hunter Codex I can have 0-1 Officio Assassinorium Operatives in my army. However, there is a little box to the left of the entry titled "Important note" that states that "...no more than one Officio Assassinorium Operative can be used in any force for any reason". (underline added by me bold is actual text) This leads me to believe that the developers considered the possibility that a second operative could be found using some other means and have banned said other means. Otherwise the box has no meaning since I am already limited to 1 operative by the FOC chart itself (maximum 1 elite slot with a maximum of 1 assassin in said slot).

DakkaDakka wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote: Otherwise the box has no meaning since I am already limited to 1 operative by the FOC chart itself (maximum 1 elite slot with a maximum of 1 assassin in said slot).

You're so limited when taking them as allies. You're not limited to one Elite slot when building a DH or WH army...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Che-Vito wrote:Both DH and WH are able to take a unit, both are called the "Officio Assassinorum Operative"

Yes. And what the FAQ is pointing out is that despite having the same name, these (along with the other unit selections that share names) are two different units, by virtue of being selected from two different codexes.

insaniak wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote: Otherwise the box has no meaning since I am already limited to 1 operative by the FOC chart itself (maximum 1 elite slot with a maximum of 1 assassin in said slot).

You're so limited when taking them as allies. You're not limited to one Elite slot when building a DH or WH army...

But you are limited to how many assassins you have in an army since it says 0-1 under the selection itself. So the only thing I can think of that the box refers to is allies.

That's a fair point. Although it could also have been intended to apply to multiple detachment games.

The FAQ only speaks of units required to unlock another. Those must be from the same codex. Since WH/DH allied is still one force there can only be one temple assassin.

insaniak wrote:That's a fair point. Although it could also have been intended to apply to multiple detachment games.

Well then, wouldn't it apply to any amount of detachments/FOCs? I mean it wouldn't make sense to say you can only have 1 assassin between two completely seperate forces on the same side but you can have 2 if you merge them into one force.

TO be fair, there is a Apoc formation of multiple assassins in one army. So if you want to get you assassin on, use that.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Well then, wouldn't it apply to any amount of detachments/FOCs? I mean it wouldn't make sense to say you can only have 1 assassin between two completely seperate forces on the same side but you can have 2 if you merge them into one force.

A multiple detachment force is different from an allied force.

A force using WH or DH allies still uses a single FoC. A multiple detachment game uses multiple FoCs to build the army... so without that rule on the Assassin, you could take an Assassin for each detachment. You would simply have to stick to the 0-1 rule for each detachment.