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So here is what I’m thinking. It’s meant to be competitive:

HQ

Command Squad w/Creed-205
Astropath, Camo-Cloaks, Regimental Standard

Commissar Lord-80
Camo-Cloak

Elite

Marbo-65

9 Battle Psykers-100

9 Battle Psykers-100

Troop

Veteran Squad-110
Autocannon, 2 Plasma Guns

Veteran Squad-110
Autocannon, 2 Plasma Guns

Veteran Squad-110
Autocannon, 3 Melta Guns

Veteran Squad-110
Autocannon, 3 Melta Guns

Infantry Platoon-750 (Total from Below)

PCS-50
4xGrenade Launchers

Infantry Squad-75
Power Weapon, Melta Gun, Melta Bomb

Infantry Squad-75
Power Weapon, Melta Gun, Melta Bomb

Infantry Squad-120
Power Weapon, Melta Gun, Melta Bomb, Commissar, Power Weapon

Infantry Squad-65
Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

Infantry Squad-65
Autocannon, Grenade Launcher

4xHWTs-300
All Autocannons

Fast Attack

Armored Sentinel-55

Armored Sentinel-55

Total:1850
Models: 123(ish)

I think it has depth and the ability to take out most lists at range. It has disruption units. Trick will be to go after mobility first. Make everyone as slow as I am and then start moving up for the kill. I've thought about dropping one of the PBS's for more toys on the Vet Squads like camo cloaks or lascannons but can't bring myself to decide.

Thoughts?

This is actually going to be me asking you questions for my benefit

Why does the Commisar Lord have a camo-Cloak? Is he just their to hide and give orders?
Do Battle Psykers work on foot? I have no idea, its just when ever i have seen them used, they have been in a Chimera (or Vendetta....)
Why Autocannons everywhere? I get it with Hydras, but all your long range AT, is S7 Autocannons. I think their good, i would have thought a couple of Lascannons might help (although presumably the mech will be coming towards your meltaguns though)

Do 2 Sentinels do anything? They could tie up a unit that doesn't have any powerfists in (I remember when my friend decided not to take a PK Nob in his ork boy squad, and got charged by a sentinel )


I think it will work quite well, as long as tank comes to you. But after seeing so many Mech Guard lists, it hard to see how an infantry list can stand up to it.....

Commissar Lord is for Leadership boosting and possibly hiding a unit w/a 3+ in cover, probably a PBS squad.

I don't know if PBS don't work on foot. But I see them as dual role. They provide a St8 Large Blast the first few turns if there isn't much anti-psyker in range. Follow-ups w/anti-leadership later in the game.

Autocannons are for killing mobility. I don't worry much about most heavy vehicles as they either can't kill enough infantry every turn or they'll be headed to me.

Sentinels are minor fire support and tie up units for non-st8 units.

Hope that helps

Commissar lord can join a unit and give them stealth.

Q for OP: What will you do vs. AV14 that can outshoot you with, lets say, a battle cannon? or 5?

I could imagine that the 30man blob will be moving forward/outflanking to deal with armor, but right now it seems like the only thing that will be threatening heavy armor, making it an obvious target.

I would drop the sentinels, and turn the hws's into lascannon teams. 12 lascannons would actually be a pretty decent anti tank ability. With the lord commissar nearby, these guys should be able to accept BiD w/o an issue.

Also, consider switching the 4x grenade launchers in the PCS out for 4x flamers for a good counter attack. The S6 is trumped by the S7 of the autocannons everywhere. flamers will give you an antihorde ability.

I think the real strength of the all infantry IG is in the blob squads.

Why?

A larger number of models benefit from a single order.

Better staying power though numbers and leadership bonuses.

More models can benefit form the Commissar's stealth.

IMO, you should go with as many Blobs as possible, each with a commissar, a few MBs, PWs and max las cannons. This gives you very low KPs, and massive scoring power.

Using the flamers as suggested by rryann works well as a counter assault unit. So does the special weapon squad with 3 demo charges.

Also, consider rough riders. With creed giving them scouts, they can get a first turn charge. Against vehicles, strength 5 auto-hits on rear armor 10 can be devastating. Going second you can outflank them. For their tiny points cost, they serve as a nice counter assault unit or as a nice surprise first turn disruption unit.

The other benefit to maxing out on blob squads is target priority problems for your opponent. If all he has to shoot at are identical, huge blobs, you eliminate the usefulness of all his anti tank weapons and make his ability to hut you very low. With units of Vets and Psykers, and HWSs you clearly give superior targets for your opponent to destroy.

All infantry IG can be an incredibly powerful army. Good at assault, good at shooting, good at scoring objectives, low KP and very resilient.

Good luck with it buddy, I bet if you bring this to the big show you will surprise a lot of people. Most lists won't have the tools to bring down 200 infantry or stand up to 12-20 las cannons.

Generally agreed with above... Your current lisy has alot of cardboard cutouts with flashlights.

Blob the Infantry and give em a commisar. Creed can outflank them right? Al'rahem is cheaper though.

AC/melta vet squads are a waste though. those squads will be dead before they ever get to use melta. put them in chimera's for mobility, or make more blob squads!

Other than the IS with melta's that may outflank(?!?!) you have no real way to handle av13/14 at range. That's going to kill this list period, since your vets have no ability to do anything before they're killed.... a few more periods for good measure....

First off good feedback. Quick word on Autocannons vs. Lascannons and then I'll answer each person

Autocannon is superior, w/or w/out BiD against, a lascannon against AV11

Autocannon is equal to, w/or w/out BiD against, a lascannon against AV12

Generally a lascannon HWT upgrade is around 40% of the cost of a autocannon HWT. In a squad it's a smaller, 13% increase.

So for demeching the Autocannon makes the Lascannon its little girly man.

@Rryannn

If someone is bringing 4-5 AV14 vehicles w/pie plates then I should be able to take out their foot element fairly easily. Even at 2k your talking minimum 600pts for 4 tanks. It's not something you see often to be honest and is generally a better MEQ killer since killing 30pts worth of models seems a bit of a waste If however someone did bring it then the focus would be on demeching and then advancing. Even that many pie plates can't kill 130+ infantry in a game.

Sentinels provide a much needed barrier for units that could swamp my army in waves. Tool kit unit really but a helpful one.

@Reece

Creed can't give rough riders anything. It's infantry or vehicle unit in his entry. Easy to miss since it was pointed out to me just the other day and I had to look it up

As for blobbing everything I'm not sure I agree. While blobbing is good and can provide a small tarpit there are increasing things in the game that can eat thru it (generally in 2 rounds of combat). Which means I'm losing extra guardsmen, extra points in the commissars, and sometimes not able to shoot. Not to mention that 3-squad blobs run a hefty price tag with the equipment your giving them (300). Think of that as a "tie-up" unit. 300pt killer units are ok. 300pt tie-ups are a losing proposition when they can go down in a turn to 160pts in ork boyz.

Target priority is a good point. And probably the best point for blobbing. And I could wind up dropping the PBS's for some other stuff. I've got a few other versions of this in the works. My only problem is that for 3 autocannons it'd run me 180pts (2 HWT's w/2xas many AC's) and w/lascannons it would be 210 (same as above but w/LC's). More survivability but half the weapons so it bears thinking on.

@Leprousy

There is a commissar and yes Creed can make them outflank. And Al Rahem actually costs more once you factor in the need to take another PCS for a home base infantry platoon since all of Al Rahem's unit has to outflank.

AC/Melta vets might be focused on and killed before someone gets close in say a LR. But that's a risk I can take. You do realize though that to make another "blob" w/even 20 guys would cost at it's cheapest (w/out Commissar but w/LC's) 170pts right? Add in a commisar and it now costs more than the 2 independently firing BS4 vets. Now that being said I'm looking for a few ways to get LC's on my vets so "ranged" anti-AV13/14 might take a bump up.

@Everyone

Quick question cause I might be missing it but what AV13-14 vehicles should I be worreid about running an all infantry list? With shooting being so much less effective in 5th I'm curious as to what AV13-14 could ruin my day from range.

Hulksmash: You might want to take a look at some of Ailaros's Battle reports (link at the top of the latest one: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/333828.page). He uses Alrahem to great effect.

While I have only played against infantry/blob IG in 5th ed., I can offer a couple recommendations
1) They can pack a lot of heavy weapons
2) Blobs are best on the move, esp with meltaguns, power weapons/priests and commissars
3) commissars are needed to protect leadership, as each blob is a huge point investment
4) Priests add a lot to the blob, both through the reroll to hit when you charge and with an evisorator
5) The main weakness of shooty foot IG is that they are prone to be assaulted. Include countercharge units or plan accordingly

I hope some of this helps. Hopefully Ailaros sees this, as he's the expert on this subject

Right now, Leman russes seem like the biggest threat. With this list, you can only engage them at 12", gaining optimum shooting at 6".

While you do have 9 meltaguns, 6/9 are in 10 man squads, and the other 3 are in your "assault" element. Furthermore, the 6/9 in the ten man squad are also with an autocannon, which implies that they will probably be sitting in the backfield, guarding the obj. So, 3 moving forward?

The best idea, imo, would be to move the meltaguns out of the blob and into the PCS, while switching the grenade launchers/flamers into the blob. This way your PCS can shoot at tanks that you encounter, while the blob doesn't have to decide between shooting at a tank or assaulting infantry.

I understand that vs. AV11/12, the autocannon outperforms the lascannon, but you lack the capability to even scratch the paint on a LR outside of 12 inches.

PBS would easily die on foot, if your planning to go all infantry then I suggest you just drop them and get more guardsmen or you may want to try 5 man storm troopers with meltaguns to answer your AV14 problems. They may also be used with plasma for MEQs and MCs.

Your veterans are all wrong, its not good to mix heavy weapons with special weapons. You give them an AC so most likely they will be shooting far back, then you give them meltaguns that would be wasted because you won't have the chance to shoot them. On the other hand if your gonna be using your melta you will have to be on the move so your AC would be wasted.

I suggest you drop the vets and make another blob so you can have one blob sit on an objective and another blob to walk the field. Since this is an all infantry list you could also try rough riders and Ogryns .

Also,
If your not planing to put weapons on those sentinels then just drop them that's 110 points wasted on units with BS3 multi-lasers.

I figure the AC in the vet squads is mostly used against Dark Eldar mech lists, all rhino chaos/marine lists and enemy mech guard lists. You don't want mech guard getting close to you with all those heavy flamers on the vehicles. The armored sentinels are key vs. Bloodcrusher lists which would chew through the infantry very quickly and not fear anything in assault.

I would seriously look at the best way to take down a Lash/Oblit chaos list. It appears to me that Chaos could lash the infantry into nice globs for the Oblits to Plasmacannon. They do this at range and prevent you from closing with them by lashing you away - and into a glob. It won't be easy to take out the Oblits with autocannons and a few lascannons in the vet squads would do the trick.

Well, I don;t agree about the auto-cannons and p.guns being total mismatches, they match in strength and the 24" range works well. Like the las/plas squads of old, you will be in range often with that combo. I like that combo, actually, although I still think the blob is better due to its ability to assault, resiliency

@Brad
Good catch on Creed, I didn't notice that.

PBS won;t die on foot any easier than any other squads, and when you present multiple threats they may survive due to target saturation. Plus you can always attack a commissar lord to them.

Well, try it out in proxy. Theory only take you so far. The only thing you can do from there is try your ideas in the real world and see what works best.

If infantry squads are to be blobbed 30/20 with a mobile 30 man squad with the meltas and a sit and shoot one with the auto/GL then this could work.

I would look to go for 3 scout sentinels rather than 2 armoured if keeping them cheap. The outflank ability may be useful. You could also look at some rough riders to give you two fast moving counter attack units, maybe at te epxense of one PBS.

I would try to get the 3rd plasma in those vet squads.

You will need the scout rule from Creed or you will struggle to get your army into the deployment zone without cramming them in and making them vulnerable to large blasts!

For orders you might want to look at adding Kell as the Comm Lord's bubble will not cover everyone. With Creed then those 4 orders a turn are your key tactic.

Nicely done for 1,850 though without massive redundancy. The list is certainly giving target saturation to the opponent!