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Edit: I really dont see the point in heavy flamers, they are not powerfull in my eyes, and not worth throwing away 140 points to take out a few troops with two flamers. Are they worth it?

I currently am using the HF/MM landspeeder combo, but I do not see the use for either. I mean, I can quickly hop across the battlefield and get a shot at a tank with a MM, and that pays for the points, then they are popped. Or I could do the same to some grotz or the like with the flamer, but then it gets popped by a klaw. Is there a way to avoid the suicide run HF/MM, while still utilizing both in needed situations? Oh, and dont say "Ues HB/Typhoon combo," because that doesnt do either very well... in my oppinion, or prove that it is worth it, anything will help!

Well, if you know your opponent is going to play an agressive strategy, nothing says you can't but them behind LoS cover until a more advantageous situation arises.

But in reality, their purpose is to be a suicide unit. Don't look at it in terms of them making their points back. If that unit of two kills a Manticore, or a Land Raider Redeemer or Vindicator before they get to close, think about the impact that can have on the game. On the tactical situation.

Same thing with the Heavy Flamer roasting up some bugs or orks. The Flamer takes town the better part of a unit and now they have to spend some resource on taking the Speeder out. Whether that resource is movement (not directly toward your lines) or anti-armor shooting (allowing your Razorbacks another turn of shooting/maneuvering) it seems to me that the Land Speeder is doing plenty of good work.

I dont know, I guess I just have a moral dilema, I am not a utilitarianist... so I cant give up a life for the better of the group, each life matters.

Heh. Yeah; the design of 40k is such that stuff is going to die. Getting points back is almost irrelevant. If the unit achieves a tactical aim you need to help you win the game, it's a good investment.

The nature of the weapons means it has to get up close to be effective, which naturally means it's easier for your opponent to hit it back. The Typhoon config survives longer because it can fight from further off, meaning fewer enemy weapons can get at it. But which one to take is much more a function of what guns you need/what you need them to do in your army. Not of which lives longer.

You do know they aren't real people don't you?

Unlike my long time suffering IG!

You need to run multiples. redundancy is a huge part of an army list. I run 2 with HF MM in a vulkan list. They zoom around and get cover saves until they get within range then start popping things, or DS in and pop things. Yes I know they will most likely die but for the shock factor of pretty much anything they shoot getting blown to pieces or torched is helpful. they are relatively cheap, can deal out a lot of damage and have to be dealt with while my army positions itself. If they get ignored then the opponent gets a slap in the face when TL MM start popping off. As far as getting hit, they are skimmers and shouldn't be taken down very easily in CC. They are light vehicles but can move fast and get cover relatively easily compared to other vehicles, its just a matter of when to run(and hide) and when to gun.

skysky wrote:You need to run multiples.

+1.As stated,a couple of these with MM/HF and your opponent ignores them at his peril.Use them to pop heavy armour or toast a particularly annoying squad in cover and do not worry about losing them before they "get their points back" and your opponent will have to reorganise after the losses or be slowed in their advance.

Land Speeder with an MM is about 90 points yes?
Suicide a Land Raider or almost any other tank and you'll have made the points back with more to spare.

I really dont see the point in heavy flamers, they are not powerfull in my eyes, and not worth throwing away 140 points to take out a few troops with two flamers. Are they worth it?

First tank shock with a rhino, then flame. When tank shocking remember not to physically hit the models carrying PF,meltagun, etc. Especially with nasty genestealers and DE wyches this works very well. Sure its not great against 3+ armor saves, but once you start roasting 100+ points of genestealers your opponent will keep them away just because he is scared of the heavy flamers.

When going in for a tank kill it doesnt matter if you die because you will make up the points or KP, and he has to waste his shooting on something that has already made back 2-3 times its points.

Also remember if you turbo directly in front of a land raider he MUST stay 1" away from you. Therefore he may choose to waste a turn with a S6 tank shock that you ignore on a 3+ anyway because you are a skimmer, or he can waste a turn moving around you, in which case mission accomplished anyway. Doing this first turn really pisses off salamander players.

darkmarine wrote:I really dont see the point in heavy flamers, they are not powerfull in my eyes, and not worth throwing away 140 points to take out a few troops with two flamers. Are they worth it?

really depends. If you can blow up an ork wagon full of goodness (with another unit) and flame the unit inside, its pretty worth it to set a big mob orks on fire, or a key scoring unit. Last game I played as chaos, I missed my speeders, as I had a bunch of looters on the other side of the board (Spearhead deployment) smashing up my rhino's and daemon princes etc. A pair of HF speeders would have solved that problem quicksmart.