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I am playing a newer player but his friend who is experienced has made him a great army list. i devised the following to help bring him down, but I was hopping for some feedback or if this was the right way to go about building a list all together. and specifically, how would an ork player best dispose of those pesky crisis suits? Well here's the list:

HQ
Wazdaka Gutsmek
Weird Boy (In truck with 'ard boys)
235

Elites
15 Kommandos-2 burnas- boss snikrot
15 komandos-2 burnas,nob-powerklaw
480

Fast Attack
3 Defkoptas-twin linked rocket launchers, buzzsaws
20 storm boyz
535

Troops
9 Warbikers (due to gutsmek)-Nob-powerklaw
11 'ard boyz-stikkbombs (except for 3)
dedicated trukk-reinforced ram, red paint, grot riggers armour plates
11 Orkboyz, Nob-powerklaw
dedicated trukk-reinforced ram, redpaint, grot riggers, armour plates, stikkbomb chucka
640

all together 1850, it's an 1850 point game as far as I know (it might be 2000 in which ill add some more troops i think, or likely some more defkoptas)

my final concern is I have heard many reputable player I know say that one of the best methods is to make sure you have multiple engagments with the Tau. They said that as soon as an ork unit is done massacring the Tau once they finally reach them, that they will often be mowed down (understandable ) and to combat this is engaging multiple enemy units at once in assault. Do you think this list could accomplish that?

Loads of (storm/battle wagon) boyz, KFF Meks, Snikrot commando's (but you already have those!).

Either ditch the bikes and the trukk boyz, or focus on one of them and take 6 cheap squads. Especially the Ork biker list is pretty scary against Tau.

Do you think this list could accomplish that?

Either take big mobs, or a whole lot of mobs, this makes it easier to charge multiple targets.

The Main problem that I see with this list is that you are very limited on the amount of models you are putting on the field. Running all of your Boyz in only two trukks is a sure way to not have any Boyz make it to the battle against Tau. Tau lose in close combat if you can get them there and our best bet for getting there is lots of boyz. If you really want to scare a Tau player (or pretty much anyone), drop 180 orks on the table with Snikrot and his Kommandos and some Killa Kans in front of them with some KFF's (much higher point match though).

If the Tau player is using the Kroot Bubblewrap on his crisis suits then a fun way to deal with that is to tank shock the kroot with a battlewagon deffrolla. Either way they will run off the table, die, or simply let you pass if they make their leadership role. Or you can get a squad or two of Lootas to mow them down from a distance before Snikrot shows up to the fight. Tau have good ways to get rid of AV14 early in the game so its best to run multiple battlewagons with KFF protection.

Hope this helps.

Kustom Force Field...

Use your imagination...

Put one in a battle wagon, and put loads of green skins in 4 trucks surrounding it, all vehicles get 4+ cover save (obscured)

also Lootas are your friend against Tau.

Best way to deal with crisis suits is to hit them with small arms fire first to strip away their drones then hit them with insta-death weapons once the drones have gone. So some shoota boys followed by some deffkoptas with rokkits should do the trick(provided they live through the salvo of fire from the Tau)

How about NOT tailoring a list. Not only will you look like less of a jerk but it will also make you a better player.

In general & this will help Vs ALL armies. Drop wazdakka, he sucks because your standard ork biker sucks.

You want 2 warbosses on bikes.
Warboss, Warbike, PK, Bosspole
These make 2 squads of nobz troops, they also get bikes.
Best run the nobz in squads of 6 for 1850:
Doc
BC
BC Waaagh Banner
PK
PK Kombi-skorcha
BC Kombi-Skorcha

Next you need something to open up transports so your bikes can annihilate the contents / Ranged firepower to take out nasty ID causing Missile Launchers.

3 Squads of 15 lootas will make quick work of either.

55 points left.
1 Squad of 15 gretchin with a runtherd. They sit on an objective in your deployment zone so your bikers & surge forward safely knowing you have that objective.


If you want to run a vehicle list you will need 2 Meks with KFF in Battlewagons & keep everything else inside those obscure granting bubbles.

I know this sounds Cheese and it is, but run a Larger unit of Nob Bikers with a Biker boss. Then fill the extra points with Boyz in Battle wagons with a KFF Mech. Be sure to toss in Lootas and you have a list that will crush Tau period. If you really want to lay down some pain and make people hate you, run 2 large squads of Nob Bikers backed with a few Deff Koptas with Buzz Saws to tie up his broadsides while your Nobz get to the fight. Its a sure way to lose friends but you will win pretty hard.

Don't take vehicles. If this is as good a list as you say, its going to have plenty of Railguns. Railguns are going to crack open any and all vehicles by turn 2.

I would go with several maxed boys squads. The Tau can only kill so many boys before you get into assault range. I would also do a couple small deffkopta teams. That way you can target multiple vehicles/suits at once.

Maybe this fast list?
Not a lot of boyz but it will give the tau a hard time to avoid close combat in hand to hand. But i have no clue if its good.
And i think if you take trukks they will get obliterated fast by tau.

you could also change the kommandos for 1 more mob of Nob bikers in this list.
HQ
Warboss - 140 points
Warboss, Warbike, Cybork body, Power klaw, 1 bosspole.
Warboss - 140 points
Warboss, Warbike, Cybork body, Power klaw, 1 bosspole.
Elites
Kommandos - 265 points
15 Kommandos, 2 burnas, boss snikrot.
Kommandos - 220 points
15 Komandos, 2 burnas, nob, powerklaw, bosspole.
Troops
Nobz - 475 points
7 Nobz, warbikes, cybork bodies, 2 Power klaw, 1 Painboy, 1 Waaagh! banner, 3 big choppas, 3 shoota/rokkit kombi weapon.
Nobz - 475 points
7 Nobz, warbikes, cybork bodies, 2 Power klaw, 1 Painboy, 1 Waaagh! banner, 3 big choppas, 3 shoota/rokkit kombi weapon.
Fast Attack
Deffkoptas - 45 points
1 Deffkopta, twin-linked rokkit launcha.
Deffkoptas - 45 points
1 Deffkopta, twin-linked rokkit launcha.
Deffkoptas - 45 points
1 Deffkopta, twin-linked rokkit launcha.

The way I beat tau is move fast. Warbike warboss+nob, Truck boys, Mek KFF, the time you spend getting there will hurt ALOT!!!! but when you are there the table turns and you put the pain on him.

NeCrotic@; Your list needs more minis, you forgot boys. Nobs are all good and well, but 30 infiltrating boyz, and they are not even proper boyz. An ork army will kind of work whatever you do, but you must follow one rule, more boyz. I mean I lose most games. You know why, I have 40 boyz, the avarage is 60, but, back to the OP, the average for a trukk hord is about 50, if you want a good effect, more is advised. The only way to worm out of this rule is wazzdakkaz bikerz all bikerz may be taken as troops choises, but then still get as many as possible, say 40, not nobz. 10 to 15 komandos or lootas a squad of three deffcoptas with rokkitz and a buzzsaw are good, but only one or two. KFFs are brill for fighting tau.

Also put the deffcoptas in one unit, it means it is harder to pick out the buzzsawz

First of all, someone mentioned their disgust for tailored lists, I will admit I am a n00b and have not been plying long. or have but not inteligently So this is me actually making a list. I just usually end up playing IG and now Tau i guess, so I need a list good at dealing with long distance, it's not directed towards just this one friend. I'm trying to comprise a sort of speed freaks type army, as you can see (I hope....) and I would rather not have units sitting at my edge of the board just shooting away, because they will get obliterated by all my friends' ranged armies. That is why I'm afraid to use lootas, does anyone have tips on using them effectively? And I have to apologize, I know most abrevitions, but someone said "BC" a bunch in a supposed army list, had no clue what that stood for And yeah the only reason I took Gutsmek was for my bikers to be counted as troop choices. I also noticed that no one was a big fan of the Storm Boyz, are these a bad pick? or were they just not mentioned because I was correct in picking them. I'm not sure how I feel about replacing a kommandos squad with a deffkopta or 2, sure it'll pop a vehicle, but what is going to deal with what's inside of it. And considering my 2 trukks aren't likely to cross the field, i kind of need them IMO.

Note: i wasn't aware at the time that KFF's gave vehicles 4+ saves, that's 'ing amazing, I might make another list using that to my advantage.

So heres a more broad question as I approach revising for a better army list: Is it better to pick specialized troops like kommandos, storm boyz, and things of the sort. Trying to most effectively achieve your goal. OR is it more effective to just layout a crap ton of models and run head strong through a maelstrom of enemy fire? I assumed the first was better when I built the list, but between kff+vehicle combos, and the reasonable (gaming) price of ork boyz, I'm starting to reconsider.

@trash: Could ya post the tau list? For those of you advocating more boyz, you ought to keep in mind that will do little good if the tau player is running 3 Railheads.

On that note, trash, without altering your list really, make sure the kammandos (Outflank is good for forcing him to group up and move off his back edge) and Storm Boyz close in for h2h asap as even 2 or 3 surviving orks will trash a trio of Crisis Suits. Have the deffkoptas go after his suits or Railheads, if he uses them. Anything that will close fast and assault.

Lastly, *if* you have access to Battlewagons with Deffrollas (with a KFF), those are best used in running over Crisis Suits. It's just too many Instant Death hits for a Crisis unit to handle. I know from being the tau player. Even though I had 3 b-sides and 2 Railheads with MarkerLight support (denying the KFF) I hard a hard time getting through AV14; and yes, the BWs are more maneuverable than the Railheads, so it was tough to get a side shot with multiple BWs protecting each other's sides.

@Shas'O Dorian: regarding tailoring, I agree that for those of us who have a year or so experience, tailoring is an unneeded crutch. Especially that last minute, *thinks* Oh, he's pulling out orks, I guess I'll ditch all of my plasmaguns and bust out the flamers. I agree, that's being a jerk.

Then again, if a nooB's scissor army is rocked, constantly, some tailoring/changes are needed. *Some*.

And what if you and your frequent opponent have been at it weekly, and he buys a couple dreadnoughts? He knows your list and has made weekly adjustments; It seems okay enough to step up the anti-T a little to compensate for those 2 dreads, eh? We, frequent opponent and I, went several weeks exploring the newer Codex: SM changing and countering list tweaks.

Pick-up game tailoring = bad.
Scheduled ahead where both players have a chance = challenging.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

trash wrote:Note: i wasn't aware at the time that KFF's gave vehicles 4+ saves, that's 'ing amazing, I might make another list using that to my advantage.

It's not exactly that KFF's give vehicles the 4+. It's that KFF gives *any* ork unit within X inches a 4+, BattleWagons, being a 'unit'.

trash wrote:So heres a more broad question as I approach revising for a better army list: Is it better to pick specialized troops like kommandos, storm boyz, and things of the sort. Trying to most effectively achieve your goal.

I think this serves you better, but I'd like to see what the tau player is running.

trash wrote:OR is it more effective to just layout a crap ton of models and run head strong through a maelstrom of enemy fire? I assumed the first was better when I built the list, but between kff+vehicle combos, and the reasonable (gaming) price of ork boyz, I'm starting to reconsider.

Not if there are Railheads with the lovely high STR, better than ork AP, big blast template submunition shots.

I don't have the list, he offered to read it off to me but I have some dignity.... so i told him I'm not that much of a tool to completely model my army around his list.
I do remember him bragging about a dedicated transport and 2 other big ships, he like rail guns so probably with those. Thats just guessing from the conversation we had though. he also said he had 6 crisis suits, but I think he has more and is being modest. And I do have 1 battlewagon and love the sound of a deffrolla, not just because of it's stats. but, well it is what it is an doesn't need much explaining So I think Im going to throw in a battlewagon/deffrolla and scrap the trukks for it, I don't have a codex on me I hope pointswise that works out. If not what should I scrap? I just read a thread on Deffkoptas, if I have to drop something I think making my 3 defkopta unit to one is a good idea?

But yeah, I'm going to go back and make a green tide army, just for fun, although I tink Tau will slice right through it though. or I just won't have enough models

trash wrote: ... a dedicated transport and 2 other big ships, he like rail guns so probably with those. if I have to drop something I think making my 3 defkopta unit to one is a good idea?

Not a good idea as one unit will limit how many targets they can bang. So, 2 units of DKs and then the Storm Boyz, I guess. Or drop the StormBs altogether for 3 Deffkoptas.
Given that the deffkoptas can assault turn 1, and thus nail the 2 Railheads (most likely RHs) before they get to move. yes, but one of the orks' advantages and *not* a 'tailored' item; just a smart tactic.

It doesn't seem like a lot of people here really understand the strengths of Tau when used properly so lets make this a little lesson for those that need it

Kroot block your scout moves, unless you're infiltrating your kommandos (assuming you actually have those overpriced things in your list, AND you make your roll to deploy them before he deploys his infiltrators) your koptas aren't going to scout anywhere useful other than MAYBE to side armor on something but just assume a turn 1 assault on something worthwhile is a no-go against someone competent. You're taking away from your backfield support by using so many Kommandos rather than lootas, if you're looking for disruption then don't take a full squad of kommandos. Take just enough for snikrot and 2 burnas and maybe 6 more so you can hit some long fangs or a dev squad (or strip away a layer of kroot) and tie it up while the rest of your army makes it there while not overspending on a unit that won't do enough in the long run.

Also lets talk about how you actually plan on getting to your opponent. If you're walking toward a refused flank odds are you'll never actually make it. The reason being even with movement and running you have to get through first the blocking piranha, the gun drones (from the piranha not actual gun drone squads). If you want to rely on storm boys then you've picked the wrong unit for the job because they'll get really far ahead of your main lines (if running trukks) and isolated and simply torrented away from kroot rifles, pulse rifles and whatever else just happens to be available and as an Ork player you don't want to make it so easy for your opponents target priority to pick your list apart with the weapons best suited for the job at all times.

What does that leave us with how to get across field? Bikes and battlewagons. If you're going to plop 9 trukks in front of a tau player they'll be gone by the end of turn 2 and odds are you'll be arriving in perfect waves to get into rapid fire range and die with each squad that got disembarked which is why I'm discounting them. Your opponent should have between 4 and 6 rail guns at this points level if he wants to keep enough blocking and screening elements in his list to keep you away for as long as possible. Each should be able to fire at separate targets which means you should have at least 1 turn 1 threat and something he would rather be shooting at NOW rather than later which brings me to how I personally run Orks. I have both a small squad of nob bikers AND 2 battlewagons. By presenting multiple threats that people want to shoot heavy weapons at and presenting 1 as a turn 1 in your face threat it allows your battlewagons time to move an acceptable distance across the field before taking fire from something that can really hurt it (fusion blasters from piranha or rail guns).

The key to keeping this together is don't go stupid with upgrades on nobs. You don't need the big choppas and more than 2 power klaws in the unit (I include any attached warbosses as part of this) is usually overkill unless you're up against something that you don't actually want to be in CC with and should actually be shooting to death (yes it's stupid to charge dedicated CC units like thunderwolves because they can play wound allocation just as well as you and get 3++ saves for equal or cheaper points, or th/ss terminators, or other equally tooled out CC units).

Warbikers are a fine unit, just don't be silly and think you can assault with them against anything other than as a last ditch effort or the squad is severely weakened. You have twin linked dakka guns for a reason, use them! The key to them is to keep them small and not care if they die. The minimum squad is all of 75 points and will get you wounds each turn you fire and can even pen most things on the rear if you can get behind them (which on a bike is very doable). They score with wazzdakka, they can turbo boost for contesting or holding in late turns and they're more resistant to small arms fire than most things in the codex. Also before you start listening to people who detract from them just remember that Space marines make a fine bike army and so can orks. They're very similar but with some key differences (which is a thread for another time really).

To the list at hand:

Wazdakka: he's fine if you want to get more bikers and really start laying down some dakka

Warp'ead: it's a silly unit but if you're friends tau list is moderately tuned he's a waste of points, drop for a warboss on bike or a big mek with kustom forcefield and change the rest of the force accordingly

Elites:
You have WAY too many points invested in things that don't do a good job at killing, take lootas or nobs, they both kill and are cost effective.

Note: Burnas in a battlewagon are OKAY, not super spectacular great but not the worst choice for this slot either because they can be used against heavy infantry or light infantry to devastating effect from a battlewagon.

Fast Attack:
Storm boys don't fit and really don't fit well in many lists at all. My opinion of boys is low, almost tripling the cost of them and making them move faster while not protecting them is a waste

Deff Koptas are good, just not in units of 3. They're better in a unit of 1 or a unit of 2. At 3 when you lose 2 of them and they break you'll never regroup, with 2 at least you can always regroup. With 1 it's a throw-away unit but 70 points is kinda pricy but can be marginally worth it.

The star of this slot is really warbuggies. You get 3 and rokkits and they can block movement, only cost 105 points and if you take a force field big mek or stick some warbikers in front they become surprisingly resilient.

Troops:
Trukk boys are frankly terrible. You don't have enough of them to make them good either.

Personal opinion: Standard boys are terrible as well, you take 12 and put them in a trukk and they will suck and die against most troops you'll face, you take 30 and they're unwieldy and slow, you take 20 and put them in a battlewagon and they become only marginally useful in assault and sure they'll kill something but usually die to either counter assault or moderately concentrated anti-infantry fire. Grots are better for simply scoring, Warbikers can put out some shots, move fast and score and nobs as troops will kill most things, move fast, score AND be resilient.

Heavy: You're not using an entire FoC section when there's a couple really good units. namely: Rokkit kans and battlewagons. I know the models are expensive but really with some bits and a bit of conversion you can turn empty paint pots and sprue into killa kans and battle wagons from tonka toys, it's just a matter of how much work you want to put into the army. This is also the spot where your best anti-AV 14 is found in the form of dreadnaught weapons and the all mighty deff rolla, just make sure you remember it ;-).

Hopes this helps you.

I have to agree with most of what MrDrumMachine said, but I would also have to disagree with a few other points.

Ill post a list that I would run at this points level and then explain why I chose what I did.

HQ:
Biker Boss
-PK
-BP

KFF Mech

Troops:
7x Nob Bikers
-PK/Cybork
-PK/Cybork/Waagh Banner
-BC/Cybork
-BC/Cybork/Kombi Flamer
-BC/Cybork/Kombi Rocker
-BC/Cybork/TL Shoota
-Pain Boy/Cybork

19x Sluggas
-Nob
-PK
-BP

20x Sluggas
-Nob
-PK
-BP

20x Sluggas
-Nob
-PK
-BP

Elite:
12x Lootas

12x Lootas

Heavy:
Battle Wagon
-Deff Rolla
-Big Shoota

Battle Wagon
-Deff Rolla
-Big Shoota

Battle Wagon
-Deff Rolla
-Big Shoota

Total: 1849

Reasoning:
Biker Boss w/Nobz: Tough as nails, gives you more wounds for your bikers, but most importantly gives them LD 9. This way its going make it really hard for the Tau player to make the Nobz run off the board on turn 1. You move the bikes flat out giving them a 3+ cover save which makes it nearly impossible to deal with them. Even if he hits you with marker lights and takes away your cover save, hes still going to have to dump his Rail Guns into this unit to insta kill them and hope that you fail your leader ship of 9 with a re roll from the boss pole...its just not practical to think this unit wont make it into assault. Aside from that, if he does dump his rail guns into your Nob Bikers, hes not dumping them into your Battlewagons...either way its a win win situation.

Battle Wagons w/ Boyz: I have never heard of anyone say that 20 Boyz are only marginally useful in assault...thats 80 Attacks, 4 of which are PK attacks... Even if you only get half of them stuck into combat on the assault thats still 40 attacks with 4 PK attacks and against Tau thats all you need. Yes I do agree that 20 Boys can get taken down by small arms fire, but you have to remember that your whole army is going to crash his lines on turn 2. By this time, don't even worry about the Rail guns and just go for the infantry and Crisis suits. So what is really going to bring your 40+ boyz down before they get to assault again next turn? 8 Rail guns? A squad of Fire Warriors? I doubt it, and even if you do lose a squad, your still going to have some boyz in the backfield assaulting whatever their closest to on turn 3...sorry to say but boyz are far from marginally useful, even after the first assault. With running 3 Battle Wagons, shooting at AV 14, it becomes a bit tough to take all 3 down especially since the KFF Mech will be giving all 3 a 4+ cover save. I'm not saying that he couldn't bring all 3 down, its just not likely by any means no matter what anyone says. Also, if hes focusing on your BWs, hes not doing anything to the really scary nob bikers that can eat through his entire army.

Lootas: These guys are GREAT for opening up transports and just being annoying. If he thinks hes going to throw some Kroot in the way of your Nob bikers to create speed bumps, think again. Your lootas will do enough wounds to those squads to wipe the Kroot off the board in 1 round of shooting, or take them down to a low enough model count that your bikes can just fly passed them. IMO Lootas are the ultimate support unit. STR 7 Weapons can easily open up transports for your Nobz and Boyz to just crush and if he wants to focus on them, then hes not focusing on your wagons OR your bikers which once again...its a win win situation.

Some options: Koptas can really be great especially in a list such as the one I listed. They do take some practice and careful planning, but if played right, they can tie up his Rail guns for a whole turn while your army moves up the board with minor damage. I would even consider dropping 4 Lootas in favor of a Kopta. That would probably make the list even stronger at this points level.

My buddy plays a Tau list and he is quite good with them. I have tried and tested the above units and all i can tell you is they DO work against Tau. Its just making your opponent figure out his target priority when all the units on the table are deadly. I hope this helps man. Let me know what you think.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just wanted to add. With playing the above units against Tau, I have won 5/5 of the games that we played. We only played 1 KP mission which is already in your favor and the rest were Objectives. Just play smart with objective games and you will come out on top. Don't think you HAVE to get your boyz into assault if they lose a wagon. Bring them back onto an objective and stay there the entire game and let the rest of your army do what they do.

MrDrumMachine wrote:It doesn't seem like a lot of people here really understand the strengths of Tau when used properly so lets make this a little lesson for those that need it

Me?

MrDrumMachine wrote:Kroot block your scout moves,

OP poster 'trash' didn't mention if the enemy uses kroot yet. And let's keep in mind, it's a dice off for Infiltrate. Outflank is chancy, of course, but a threat enough that a smart tau player will deploy off the edge accordingly. If he's got enough kroot to deny the back then poster 'trash' can chance either side or just infiltrate.

MrDrumMachine wrote: ... your koptas aren't going to scout anywhere useful other than MAYBE to side armor on something but just assume a turn 1 assault on something worthwhile is a no-go against someone competent.

Competent player or not, the one of the three koptas will be assaulting something Turn 1, hitting *rear* armor. It'll automatically hit (vehicle didn't Move) with a Pfist on Rear AV. Flechettes pending.

The only thing preventing this, would the tau player going all Reserve.

'Course, I am taking note of all of your tau advice. There's always more to learn, so thanks, MDM. <-- Not sarcasm.

Brothererekose wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:It doesn't seem like a lot of people here really understand the strengths of Tau when used properly so lets make this a little lesson for those that need it

Me?

Not specifically but a little! ;-)

Brothererekose wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:Kroot block your scout moves,

OP poster 'trash' didn't mention if the enemy uses kroot yet. And let's keep in mind, it's a dice off for Infiltrate. Outflank is chancy, of course, but a threat enough that a smart tau player will deploy off the edge accordingly. If he's got enough kroot to deny the back then poster 'trash' can chance either side or just infiltrate.

He said that a very experienced player made the Tau player a great list, I can't classify a Tau list great without kroot personally ;-).

Brothererekose wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote: ... your koptas aren't going to scout anywhere useful other than MAYBE to side armor on something but just assume a turn 1 assault on something worthwhile is a no-go against someone competent.

Competent player or not, the one of the three koptas will be assaulting something Turn 1, hitting *rear* armor. It'll automatically hit (vehicle didn't Move) with a Pfist on Rear AV. Flechettes pending.

The only thing preventing this, would the tau player going all Reserve.

'Course, I am taking note of all of your tau advice. There's always more to learn, so thanks, MDM. <-- Not sarcasm.

I love both my ork and Tau armies and I think I can provide some insights especially on this particular matchup at least from the Tau players perspective as I haven't found a really good game against Tau but have had some against orks as tau.

What I meant by that is you really should only be able to SHOOT side armor, that or charge kroot. What you're forgetting is you also have to announce what those kommando's are doing during your setup. Yes if you're going second it is an option to roll of for infiltrate and manage to get in close with koptas, but really if the tau player is going first he has a very big advantage right out the gate and if I'm anticpating them charging one of my vehicle: I move the vehicle lol since I'm going first. Now if the ork player is going first the Tau player already knows whether or not the kommandos are infiltrating or not and can plan accordingly through setup. Regardless though properly protected units (including vehicles) won't get charged before being able to move.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:Battle Wagons w/ Boyz: I have never heard of anyone say that 20 Boyz are only marginally useful in assault...thats 80 Attacks, 4 of which are PK attacks... Even if you only get half of them stuck into combat on the assault thats still 40 attacks with 4 PK attacks and against Tau thats all you need. Yes I do agree that 20 Boys can get taken down by small arms fire, but you have to remember that your whole army is going to crash his lines on turn 2. By this time, don't even worry about the Rail guns and just go for the infantry and Crisis suits. So what is really going to bring your 40+ boyz down before they get to assault again next turn? 8 Rail guns? A squad of Fire Warriors? I doubt it, and even if you do lose a squad, your still going to have some boyz in the backfield assaulting whatever their closest to on turn 3...sorry to say but boyz are far from marginally useful, even after the first assault. With running 3 Battle Wagons, shooting at AV 14, it becomes a bit tough to take all 3 down especially since the KFF Mech will be giving all 3 a 4+ cover save. I'm not saying that he couldn't bring all 3 down, its just not likely by any means no matter what anyone says. Also, if hes focusing on your BWs, hes not doing anything to the really scary nob bikers that can eat through his entire army.

A competent Tau player with a decent list really shouldn't let you hit anything important in CC until turn 3-4 unless you play where deff rollas get their d6 hits even on dodging skimmers. It usually takes until turn 3 just to peel back all the bubblewrap of kroot, drones and blocking skimmers just to get to a juicy target.

Also the math you're presenting is very flawed when it comes to understanding how powerful a battlewagon of boys actually is. Yeah it's 80 attacks. . . .before your opponent will almost always go BEFORE you (assuming a regular opponent is a space marine player). Woe to you if it's a space wolf player because even a small long fangs squad will do significant damage before being run down and then odds are you'll be countercharged and decimated. Even charging kroot that are in cover will pull down close to their points before dying and then you're exposed to full volume fire from the parts of the Tau that ACTUALLY kill things including flamers and the AFP. Of course 40 attacks is okay against tau, it's Tau, but that's a really low bar for CC ability lol.

Really going for the quality that can be found in nobs is the best choice for a CC unit, or if you want a countercharge unit Killa Kans have really be doing well for me as they support from mid field and give me board control even when incorporated into a list that outpaces the walkers they're an all around threat and having the ability to hurt the bane of orks (land raiders) is a really nice bonus.

I understand your list but It's really just like any other "rock" army out there and I haven't been impressed with that sort of play style against any of the 5th edition codecies but most notably against space wolves, and IG as they turn into "paper" when they need to (no I'm not talking about list tailoring, I'm just talking in general all comers terms ie. and army that acts like paper, rock and scissors as needed).

MrDrumMachine wrote:He said that a very experienced player made the Tau player a great list, I can't classify a Tau list great without kroot personally ;-).

I agree and will take note since the Kan Wall is a large part of the local RTT scene (2 at least at the last two RTTs).

Thanks guys that was really specific and helpful. I do have a few model constrictions though: I only have 1 Battlewagon, I don't have any buggies.... SO keep in mind I am considering these constrictions durring the construction of this list.

Note: He still sticks to saying he has 6 Crisis suits, I'm almost positive he'le have some kroot, he has.... 7 VEHICLES

Alright well everyone has definitely proven that stormboyz really aren't worth the cost, and not to rely on kommandos as much or at all even. Actually I'm going to devisea new list on what people suggested, I like the bikers a lot and have the models so I will do that. My favorite suggestion was the bikers mixed with a battle wagon (seconded by the double wagon, that would be terrifying!) but due to model constrictions I'm going to go with that. Alright well heres my new army list:

HQ
Wazdaka Gutsmek
Big Mek-PK, KFF, 2 grot oilers
300

Elites
10 Lootas-Mek-KFF
200

Troops
5 Nob Bikers-PK's, Painboys-Wagh Banner
19 Ork Boyz (sluggas and choppas)
5 Warbikers-Nob-PK, Bosspole
5 Warbikers-Nob-PK, bosspole
879

Heavy Support
Battle Wagon- Deff Rolla, Red Paint, 'ard case, zzap gun, 4 rokkit launchas, armour plates
185

Fast Attack
2 Deffkoptas- Rokkit Launchas, Buzzsaws
2 Deffkoptas- Rokkit Launchas, Buzzsaws

1849 points all together....

well with this list I plan to bolt across the field and take out what needs to be taken out. Hopefully I can out maneuver kroot, but I also have the lootas to put them in a world of hurt (but do you think the lootas will even live through 2 turns? they have a pretty good reputation which draws attention to them, but I guess it's not on my vital units so that's okay?). Oh, of course the Big Mek is in the Battlewagon. And I adopted the 2 kopta plan, after reading that thread about koptas another time. My major concerns with this list, is that for an ork army list, it seems scarce, i think a lot of that is due to the extra points I took to mount all the troops, so will those points be effectively spent or wasted. I also spent almost 400 on the nob biker squad, given it's like a superman squad, it still felt weird spending that much.

I'de love feedback on the new list. I'm liking this list a lot, the other one was fun and cool, but pretty ridiculous, goofy, and not reliable/productive. This list I think will come through every time. Well after your guys's thoughts of course.

trash wrote:Note: He still sticks to saying he has 6 Crisis suits, I'm almost positive he'le have some kroot, he has.... 7 VEHICLES

2 DevilFish, 2 Railheads and 3 piranhas, is my guess according to your statements above. If he's good and dirty he'll flechette each one, making you take a wound on 4+ for every model that assaults the vehicle, including the piranha squadron.

Note on that: it should be *one* 4+ wound on each ork attacking the piranhas, even if they are a pair or trio. Someone flew the idea that assaulting a squadron trio of piranhas yielded 3 flechette wacks per ork, but 'tain't so. I tell you this now, so you can resolve this point *before* your game begins.


I'll leave the rest of the ork list to others better versed in orkese ... orkiness?

Well another problem is I'm not to familiar with Tau. So all of these titles of Tau units don't help me out to much. I'm working on changing that. I play Eldar/Orks/ and on rare occasion Black Templar

Devilfish - looks like the Hammerhead, but without a BFG on top. Your rule book has its stats. 'Tis a transport for FireWarrior troops. Most likely will be equipped with a Cover Save good after 12" away.

HammerHead - same as D'fish but with the BFG. Called a "rail"head if equipped with a railgun.

Piranha - AV like a rhino, often sporting an upgraded meltagun on its nose. Skimmer & Fast.