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Hello all,

It's been a while since I posted on Dakka, in fact it's been a while since I had anything to do with any war gaming. Anyway, my friends and I are starting a group to play Combat Patrol, or 40K in 40 Minutes, to get people near us interested. It's cheaper then diving straight in to a 1,000pt or 1,500pt army, and it allows for those who have played to focus more on painting and conversion work. We decided that we will go with 400pts and probably go up to 600pts.

My purpose for posting is to hopefully get you guys here in Dakka in on a discussion on possible tactics, lists, and different armies that are used in Combat Patrol.

I'm trying to focus on a Tau Empire force while others will be using Space Marines, Chaos Daemons, Orks, and possibly the new Dark Eldar. Maybe even some Eldar since we have the extra models.

So, anyone have some input that would be usefull?

I think this is a great way to get people to gain interest in the hobby. For these smaller games, try to keep the physical number of models as close as possible. Also i think its ok to shy away from the force organization chart for these games to showcase the units that characterize certain armies

The theme behind combat patrol suits mech armies.
This will usually limit the model count and also give you a (more or less) full range of the rules (Vehicles, infantry, jump infantry etc)
For Tau i would say Fire warriors in devilfish with a battle suit commander (Or maybe no HQ?) and some Vespid. If you can fit it in some Piranhas as well.

Technically Combat patrol doesnt exist anymore, as it's written out of the book. However since they give more leeway to the rules now, you can still use the older edition rules and the current rules are fully backwards compatable.

In Combat Patrol, if my memory's correct, you are not allowed to have models with an invul save, more than 2 wounds, MCs, 2+ armor saves and Ordinance. For Tau, this prettymuch means you have to rely on Fire Warriors and Kroot for your forces. Going strictly by the rules, Chaos Daemons are not usable (as everything has an invul save) but it's an acceptable break for them.

If you are not going by the old rules and just using 400 points of whatever with a single troop choice, ignore all of that.

As tau your basic forces will comprise of Fire Warriors and Battlesuits. hammerheads should come next as some of your ranged support weapons. While Marker lights seem tempting, try and avoid massing them. They're quite huge pointsinks. Since you are trying to get people into the game, see if you can give them the bare minium choice of 2 troops and 1 HQ, and move on from there.

I don't think you can field Hammerheads in Combat Patrol....If Combat Patrol is the one I'm thinking of, the variations on the rules are thus:

- No Special Characters.
- No 2+ saves.
- No models with more than 2 wounds.
- Must have one troops choice, can have up to one HQ choice.
- No vehicles with a total armor value over 33.


Army Builder is telling me that Hammerheads have a total armor value of 35, so no go there unfortunately.

---

I like playing Combat Patrol, it helped me get a Tau friend back into the hobby. Good, quick game, and units that aren't necessarily worth fielding in a bigger game become useful.. (I.E With no heavy armor around, it's not as vital to take melta weapons, thus alot more people tend to field plasma). Also, due to the speed, can be very good for introducing players to the game during whatever spare time they have.

What is the armour on a hammerhead? I remember there was a rule like combined AV had to be less than 33 for vehicles.

edit - ninja, didn't realise it had been so long since i had refreshed.

The new DE are pretty broken in combat patrol, with the small board they can get turn one charges off with ease and really hurt a large part of your force.

Its a fun system but I think it needs tweaking for 5th ed.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:I don't think you can field Hammerheads in Combat Patrol....If Combat Patrol is the one I'm thinking of, the variations on the rules are thus:

- No Special Characters.
- No 2+ saves.
- No models with more than 2 wounds.
- Must have one troops choice, can have up to one HQ choice.
- No vehicles with a total armor value over 33.

You hit the nail on the head sir.. I never saw anything that said no Invulnerable Saves, but I can see where one may think that. DE is broken. I took one look at the points cost for the Ravanger and what it could take as up grades and decided when I got done with Tau I would start on them.

We have a group of people, about 4 strong, that played as early as 3rd ed and want to get creative with their lists for personal play among us. we do have a few lists that are primarily for fun with new players or just around the house.

I'm shocked I got so many replies in just a few hours. 5th ed does make it difficult to field balanced forces, but I can honestly say that I have looked at most 5th ed armies and I believe that everyone could field a pretty nasty force if they decided to for Combat Patrol.

I personally believe that Tau have some pretty cheap but effective units that work great in Combat Patrol. A six man Fire Warrior team is only 60pts and that fields the requirement for a troop choice. You could field a XV8 Crisis Suit with a Missle Pod, Plasma, TA, and HWMT as a Team Leader for under 70pts. If played right you can pop at least one MEQ a turn, easily making his points back. We also have Devilfishes, which could be a WarFish, although I wouldn't recommend it. It's pretty much a points sink that can get popped early.

Ordinance weapons are also not allowed, and apparently 400 is the max points total for Combat Patrol, so that would be another strike against the hammerhead. I was wrong on the Invul Save part tho, forgot where I saw that one. However do note that if you do decide to conform to the rules, Tau Battlesuits all have 3 wounds...

And the newer books have severely discounted transports. when Tau get their update, the Devilfish will definately go down as well.

Shas'el and Shas'o have more then 2 wounds.. However, the XV8 options for Elites only have 2, thus are legal.

Tau have incredible speed and mobility at such a small points level that the Devilfish, IMHO, isn't needed. They also have ton of board control. Simple Fire Warrior squads have a range of 30" with Str 5 weapons. Can't really ask for more then that.

you're right on the battlesuit account. I stand corrected again. Just be careful of enemies (especially Eldar) making it into CC range though. I once had an entire 10 man squad of Fire Warriors utterly destroyed by a single Avenger Exarch. He caused enough wounds to win combat, which forced a modified leadership test, and since I failed it, he caught me on the pursue (due to his insanely high Initiative and my pathetically low one), wiping out the entire squad (and winning the game) all in one swing.

Combat Patrol is a GREAT game type that doesn't take much to get going. It does have some limitations, but they don't hinder too much. User the 2011 Adepticon rules, as they are the most recent for CP.

I run Imperial Guard and I've found a nice mix of Transports w/ Vets and some Sentinels works wonders. I tried a blob and it works, but I dont love it.

Grey Knights are hilariously fun to play at combat patrol levels, since shrouding + psycannons really mess up an opponent's day at so low points levels.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:you're right on the battlesuit account. I stand corrected again. Just be careful of enemies (especially Eldar) making it into CC range though. I once had an entire 10 man squad of Fire Warriors utterly destroyed by a single Avenger Exarch. He caused enough wounds to win combat, which forced a modified leadership test, and since I failed it, he caught me on the pursue (due to his insanely high Initiative and my pathetically low one), wiping out the entire squad (and winning the game) all in one swing.

You're probably not going to find any Avengers in CP since Eldar don't have any transports that are legal in CP. A walking squad, even with fleet, would draw a ton of fire and probably be manned by turn 2.

Tau have two things working for them. Massive fire power, and mobility. All which work wonders on such a small space. A 4' x 4' table where most everything can shoot 30'' or 36'' can really cripple other armies. Crisis Suits dominate the board if played right. I'm trying to find the right build for the XV8's for Combat Patrol. Fireknife is very effective, but I'm thinking Deathrains will probably be better. Twin-linked Missle Pods keeps them at a safe distance while still pumping out some major hits, but I believe the Fireknife is more effective since it fills the role for transport cracking, and taking down MEQ.

My major problem is finding a solid list that is balanced. A single Fire Warrior squad is solid and tend to do their job. Maybe two Crisis teams with two members would be effective but still cheap.

Anyone have any lists that they found effective?

Believe it or not, the Avenger squad was footslogging. However they were supported by a Guardian squad with a support weapon and a warlock. they pummeled another Fire Warrior Squad I had and so took on top priority. After the dust cleared my Fire Warriors managed to kill the avenger squad down to the man, but still got whopped. Be careful of the Fair folk in space.

In light of the Crisis suits being viable, consider taking a few burst cannons on them to put out more fire. Fusion guns and Missile pods should be discounted due to the fact that those are more for vehicle hunting than anti-infantry. Plasma Rifles are invaluable too and should be used alongside Burst Cannons for more firepower. Consider some Kroot Hound-equipped Kroot kindreds, as, being tau, most people would try to close the distance on you to catch you in close combat.

Missle Pods have to be taken. Melta-type weapons are not as important since you don't face anything with too much armor. They pump out 2 Str 7 shots at 36'' away. They are walking Autocannons basically. They help with horde type armies also.

So far I know I'm taking this:

Fire Warrior team (6)
Pulse Rifles

Crisis Suit Team leader
PL, MP, TR, HW-MT.

Crisis Suit Team Leader
PL, MP, TR, HW-MT.

I'm at 194pts, still have 206pts to spend. Kroot could come in handy, but as an assault squad, they are really no better then the Fire Warriors with the exception that they have a higher WS. Cheap though.

Pathfinders may be worth looking into since they come with marker lights. Vespids I think are pointless. Far too expensive for what they do, and then they die.

Silverwarrior88 wrote:Missle Pods have to be taken. Melta-type weapons are not as important since you don't face anything with too much armor. They pump out 2 Str 7 shots at 36'' away. They are walking Autocannons basically. They help with horde type armies also.

So far I know I'm taking this:

Fire Warrior team (6)
Pulse Rifles

Crisis Suit Team leader
PL, MP, TR, HW-MT.

Crisis Suit Team Leader
PL, MP, TR, HW-MT.

I'm at 194pts, still have 206pts to spend. Kroot could come in handy, but as an assault squad, they are really no better then the Fire Warriors with the exception that they have a higher WS. Cheap though.

Pathfinders may be worth looking into since they come with marker lights. Vespids I think are pointless. Far too expensive for what they do, and then they die.

Take the kroot, but don't bother upgrading them. As for pathfinders, just add markerlights into the firewarriors and take more of them. BS5 with 12 Firewarriors=Death to all

We're really trying to put together a Chaos Daemons army. One hitch we ran into was that we love the rules for "Fiends" but hate how expensive and ugly the GW model is.

We want something more along the lines of plastic in case we decide to convert them some. Possibly something like a unit. I'm sold on the long limbs and claws though, they match Slaanesh very well.

Anyone have any ideas?

For fiends, I convert them from the Seekers. Others use Goblin Spider riders and instead of the rider, glue Daemonette torsos to the spider's face dor Fiends.

Vespids are MEQ killers and ONLY MEQ killers. They will do squat against anything else (or at least, not do other things as well as anything else). I still think Plasma Rifles and Burst cannons are slightly better than Missile pods, since you dish out more shots per turn and Plasmas can instakill whatever the Missile pods can. The range is a bonus tho, but the enemy will likely close the distance faster than you'd expect.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Technically Combat patrol doesnt exist anymore, as it's written out of the book. However since they give more leeway to the rules now, you can still use the older edition rules and the current rules are fully backwards compatable.

In Combat Patrol, if my memory's correct, you are not allowed to have models with an invul save, more than 2 wounds, MCs, 2+ armor saves and Ordinance. For Tau, this prettymuch means you have to rely on Fire Warriors and Kroot for your forces. Going strictly by the rules, Chaos Daemons are not usable (as everything has an invul save) but it's an acceptable break for them.

If you are not going by the old rules and just using 400 points of whatever with a single troop choice, ignore all of that.

While Combat Patrol is officially gone, it's also worth looking at Battle Missions for the Kill Team mission, which uses 200 points (and is, technically, fully legal). It's a good way for the beginner to get games in even before Combat Patrol, and the games are short and sweet, typically.

The whole point is to use a system that may be gone, at least no longer in a rule book, but can still be used towards the 5th ed armies and their rule books.

It's hard for Nids now since everything that was great inside and out of Combat Patrol now has 3 wounds, like Lictors, Warriors, and Ravaners.

Still trying to add to the Tau Combat Patrol party. Maybe Stealth teams could be worth taking if you can get that magical 21" range going.

I would of thought more people would have commented on this particular thread. Combat Patrol is so fun.

Anyone else have anything to share? I'm really interested in seeing particular lists.

The Adepticon site has a link to their Combat Patrol rules, if it would be of any help.

Downloads: http://www.adepticon.org/?page_id=1727

Silverwarrior88 wrote:We're really trying to put together a Chaos Daemons army. One hitch we ran into was that we love the rules for "Fiends" but hate how expensive and ugly the GW model is.

We want something more along the lines of plastic in case we decide to convert them some. Possibly something like a unit. I'm sold on the long limbs and claws though, they match Slaanesh very well.

Anyone have any ideas?

Chaos Spawn. The actual Chaos Spawn unit has terrible rules, but the Spawn model kit is really nice, with lots of awesome bitz, and goes on the same base as a Fiend. Build it to look as fast and as Slaaneshi as you can, paint it pink or purple, and you're good.

Have played a lot of Tau combat patrol, and absolutely love it, so felt obligated to comment:

- A smartfish works really well (devilfish with sms, dp, ta and mt) since it can scoot 'n shoot, have a 4 plus and AV 12 front which makes it an uncatchable scoring firing platform that is very hard too shoot down given the amount of AT people usually bring.

Regarding Kroots, its just plain wrong that they are as good as FW in CC. Kroot have more ws, higher strength, an extra attack and superiority of numbers. 20 Kroot on the charge will completely destroy 30 boyz, and placed in a forest they have a 3+ and can shoot 24. All that, and scoring, for 140 points is a great deal. I have often ran a squad of 12ish Kroot with succes. They are a bit like the Arcadians in 300. Swinging wildly, but they make a glourious mess.

Gorlack wrote:

- A smartfish works really well (devilfish with sms, dp, ta and mt) since it can scoot 'n shoot, have a 4 plus and AV 12 front which makes it an uncatchable scoring firing platform that is very hard too shoot down given the amount of AT people usually bring.

I love a Warfish also, but it digs deep into points. You're looking at 120pt Fish. I have played with it several times and enjoy it, but I don't know if it could be as useful as say two more FireKnife or DeathRains XV8"s could.

Gorlack wrote:
Regarding Kroots, its just plain wrong that they are as good as FW in CC. Kroot have more ws, higher strength, an extra attack and superiority of numbers. 20 Kroot on the charge will completely destroy 30 boyz, and placed in a forest they have a 3+ and can shoot 24. All that, and scoring, for 140 points is a great deal. I have often ran a squad of 12ish Kroot with succes. They are a bit like the Arcadians in 300. Swinging wildly, but they make a glourious mess.

I didn't mean it in terms of "Kroot = Fire Warriors via combat" I mean for the points, pound for pound, a 6 man Fire Warrior squad dishes out more damage from shooting then a 10 man Kroot squad. Sure they do give you a free unit to block charge lanes, and can be decent in combat, but I would rather loose my Warriors after/ or not rapid firing to someone. The Warriors get at least one turn of shooting and if left unchecked become a pain. Either way, either unit does it's job drawing enemy fire or charges. This means you have more time with your Crisis Suits, or your Fish.

My current build did involve the WarFish and looked like this:

XV8 Team Leader
HW-MT, TA, Plasma, MP


XV8 Team Leader
HW-MT, TA, Plasma, MP

Fire Warrior Team (6)
- Devil Fish
MT, DP, SMS, TA

I still have 66pts left. I have room for a possible single DeathRain, or I could just beef up the Fire Warriors. Maybe a suicide XV8 with:

XV8 Team Leader
Fusion, Flamer, TA, HW-MT




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mannahnin wrote:

Silverwarrior88 wrote:We're really trying to put together a Chaos Daemons army. One hitch we ran into was that we love the rules for "Fiends" but hate how expensive and ugly the GW model is.

We want something more along the lines of plastic in case we decide to convert them some. Possibly something like a unit. I'm sold on the long limbs and claws though, they match Slaanesh very well.

Anyone have any ideas?

Chaos Spawn. The actual Chaos Spawn unit has terrible rules, but the Spawn model kit is really nice, with lots of awesome bitz, and goes on the same base as a Fiend. Build it to look as fast and as Slaaneshi as you can, paint it pink or purple, and you're good.

You sir, have a valid and very good point. I never thought of the Spawn box. It's the same price as one Fiend but you get two at once, plus they come with several claw-like arms and barbs and hooks. They look very Slaanesh like to begin with. Great idea, I'll be sure to pass it along to my friend.

I dislike suicide units in general, even more so in low point games. Throwing away 1/5 of your army is pretty much never a smart move.

Also, another thing. Do you think it's worth it to pay 15p/model to give the suits +1BS? It seems on the expensive side IMO...If you drop the TL/TA upgrades on the suits you could add 2 deathrains with flamers.

+1 BS is what makes the FireKnife XV8 handle MEQ. Without it you have a 50% shot at hitting with Plasma, something you really don't want to chance, not to mention that the Missle Pods are what helps with enemy transports and vehicles.

If I drop the Team Leader and TA's, I might as well field two teams of 2 Deathrains and just dish out multiple shots.

Ended up having yet another friend jump into Combat Patrol. He had some Marines laying around and just had to buy some Typhoons. Here was his lay out:

Tactical Squad (10)
Flamer
Misslle Launcher

Land Speeder Typhoon
Heavy Bolter

Land Speeder Typhoon
Heavy Bolter

Attack Bike (1)
Heavy Bolter

He breaks the squad up into combat squads, using the Flamer to advance and the Misslle Launcher to take down armor. He pumps out 9 Str 5 AP 4 hits from 36'' away and gets 4 Str 4 Blasts from 48" away with just the Speeders and Bike. He can also throw 5 Str 8 AP 3 shots into heavy infantry or transports/light vehicles.

I called cheese after seeing the list, but really dropped my jaw after see it played.