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Hi, im new to the deldar and i was wondering what the opinion was on the harlequins, ive tried playing a game with a small group and they started well hitting their reverve on turn two then they quickly got taken out by shot gun blasts and melta guns from a ten man guard veterans squad. the way ive heard it the harlequins seem to be the mythical unicorn of the dark eldar because they are so hard to use well, but i am interested to see how they measure up to other people. I know the webway gets them in fast, but beyond that im kinda lost with them. any davice helps, thanks

I have no idea, I have only seen people avoid them intheir lists. but there must be someway to use them. I have been interested in the Dark Eldar rules so would love to see peoples responses as well.

I agree with the above, not sure why they used a Codex Eldar unit, but I'll have to read the fluff tonight, I'm not a huge fan of just their model, they look like circus people.

1,000 Post, letz goooooo.

The best use I can see for them is starting ON the table, as the bodyguard for the haemonculus holding the WWP. Veil of Tears helps keep them from getting shot in the first turn or two before you deploy the portal.

They're not that strong a unit; partially because GW gave them the exact same stats they have in the Eldar codex. Rending got weaker in 5th ed, and Initiative was more important back in 4th, when casualties had to be removed from the models close enough to fight.

Edit: Revacky, going back their introduction in WD104/105, the Harlequins travel through the webway at will, between all Eldar homes, Craftworld or Exodite (or Dark, once they got introduced), telling the stories and performing the dances which tell the history and legends of the Eldar. They're also fanatical enemies of chaos, so much so that they've been known to work alongside humans and others to kill Chaos. After the DE got introduced, GW expanded on that, explaining that the Harlequins don't discriminate between flavors of Eldar, and they recruit the best warriors and performers from the DE too.

Just a bummer that they're not more effective presently.

thanks for the advice, im still unsure, ive had a very difficult time finding an elite choice that works for me.

See when you take foot harlies, you take a shadowseer.That saves you from big scary blasts...if you place them well.
For Eldar they work better cuz we have doom and fortune.For dark eldar they are not as good but they can make their points back if used well.

With Dark Eldar the only real use for Harlies is as a WWP delivery system (or a unit which comes through it I guess). You don't need a big unit for this, mostly just a Shadowseer so you can safely get the portal down without being hit and obviously the Haemonculi to carry the portal. Not being able to take a transport really limits what they can do in most Dark Eldar lists, their only option would be to steal someone elses. For Eldar they can be used a bit more easily in this role as Eldar can get Falcons as non dedicated transports and have units which can easily buy Serpents which they don't need themselves (i.e 5 Avengers + Serpent, Avengers go in a Falcon).

As for good Elites choices for DE, small squads of Incubi in a Venom or Raider and 3-5 man Trueborn units with Blasters would be the top of the list for me but all of them are usable. Grotesques are pretty good and fit into Haemonculi based lists, Mandrakes can be useful for disruption and board control, Bloodbrides make good escorts for Archons in a Raider and obviously fit into Wych based lists very well and Trueborn can be built to make a mess of infantry or take out vehicles with Blasters. The only bad Elites unit imo are Wracks, not because they are a bad unit, but because you should always take them as Troops.

I like small Trueborn blaster units in Venoms for Elite, though Incubi look pretty good too.

I could see using a big squad of harlies stealing someone else's Raider. Maybe a squad of Warriors with a Dark Lance which stays back in the DZ to hold an objective and shoot.

Probably the best use, though, is just the 5 man WWP delivery, maybe swiping a Venom from some other unit.

caesarwolf wrote:thanks for the advice, im still unsure, ive had a very difficult time finding an elite choice that works for me.

There are at least two cost-effective elite units in the new DE codex: Trueborn and Incubi.
Trueborn can really shine if you give the assault or heavy weapons and Incubi (with pain marker) can take on almost everyone in the 40k universe, bar MCs.

Long Story short from my experience.

Harlequins are great in the Eldar Codex (to an extreme if used well)

and in the Dark Eldar codex they just don't fit.

Especially since the Dark Eldar have units that suit 5th edition a lot more and are quicker.

Incubi as an obvious choice.

Harlies aren't completely useless in DE, out of a webway they can deliver mass S4 attacks (which can be better against Geqs than the PW anti Meq incubi). They can also have 2x fusion pistols. Considering the fact they are coming out of a portal, the chances of them at least getting 2 S8 AP1 shots off are pretty decent. So harlies can be great anti infantry (assuming non marines) or play as a secondary anti tank unit. Since the shadow seer limits incoming fire, they can be extremely useful for screening other units coming out of the portal too.

For Eldar they are awesome.

For DE, not as awesome, but still good.

The best use I can think of for them, and the only reason to take them over Bloodbrides (who rock with character support) or Incubi is the following:

To deliver a WWP as stated by others,

As a compliment unit to Vect in his Pimp Wagon. Take 8 of them with kisses, Vect and a Homunculea and you have a very powerful unit.

Are they better than Incubi or Bloodbrides in that roll? That is debatable. They are sort of a cross between the two. You take the bloodbrides to kill hordes and to soak damage from power weapons with their 4++. You take Incubi to deal damage to elite infantry and soak non-power weapon attacks with their 3+. Harlies are in the middle, being great at mulching light infantry (although slightly less gooad at it than tricked out BBs), heavy infantry (although again slightly less good at it than Incubi), MCs and they can hurt tanks due to rending. The Homunculea makes all of th eunits more resilient and makes harlies nearly as good as blood brides on staying power.

Plus, the shadowseer can help save the unit from being shot down if they wipe a unit in combat. Their ability to ignore cover also means that so long as the ICs don't move through the cover, the unit won't have to take a difficult terrain test but can still benefit from a cover save, making them more mobile. If they do have to move through cover, they have the IC's move through cover rules to boost their mobility.

So yeah, Harlies have a place in DE although it is pretty limited when compared to Eldar. I think it just depends on the composition of the unit they are with. But as stated, i think with vect they definitely have a place in the list as a limited deathstar.

Harlies have a good couple of roles, at least for DE:

-WWP bodyguard (as already detailed)
-Another way to get two melta guns (fusion pistols) into list
-Screen unit for foot-based list (Shadowseer protects Harlies, they provide 4+ cover to units behind them)

As pure melee threats, they can be matched cheaper elsewhere, but they are still a solid choice.

Just remember that Dark Eldar Harlequin's Kisses are not close combat weapons.

DarknessEternal wrote:Just remember that Dark Eldar Harlequin's Kisses are not close combat weapons.

Don't have the book at hand, but I was under the impression that it was just a copy paste unit. AB seems to agree with me, but that could be wrong of course.

Maybe they are supposed to be a copy and pasted unit, but Harlequin Kisses in Codex Dark Eldar are unequivocally not close combat weapons.

Disagree. They're still CCWs. "Close combat attacks made by a Harlequin's Kiss have the rending rule." What do you make a close combat attack with?

GW just removed a redundant sentence from the Eldar 'dex.

Mannahnin wrote:Disagree. They're still CCWs. "Close combat attacks made by a Harlequin's Kiss have the rending rule." What do you make a close combat attack with?

Spit and prayers?

Guardians don't come with a close combat weapon, what do they make close combat attacks with?

Close combat weapons are not required to make close combat attacks.

Eldar codex says Harlequin's Kiss is a close combat weapon. Dark Eldar codex does not.

Space Marine codex says Storm Shields provide a 3+ Invulnerable save. Daemonhunter codex says Storm Shields provide a 4+ Invulnerable save, but only in close combat.

Same thing. Each codex is given authority on its own rules.

Obviously you CAN make a close combat attack without a weapon.

I don't disagree with any of the principles you're basing your argument on, but I think you're misapplying them in this specific case.

IMO the phrase "Close combat attacks made by a Harlequin's Kiss have the rending rule" clearly is expressing that the Kiss is a weapon. Maybe not as perfectly clear as it could be, given that they misused "by" when they obviously meant "with", but if you're making a close combat attack with it, it's obviously a close combat weapon.