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So the FAQ says they follow the random movement rule EXCEPT that if they would hit a friendly unit, they instead do impact hit-like things to them.

But the random movement rules say that you can never hit a friendly unit, you have to stop 1 inch away.

So, whenever they get closer than 1 inch, do you do impact hits? Do you never get impact hits on friendlies?

What if the doomwheel would go straight forward, within an inch, but not touching?

What about when it charges? The random movement rules say both that you charge if you come into contact with enemies and that you can't move within 1 inch of a friendly unit. If you would have to move within 1 inch of a friendly unit before you would come into contact with enemy unit, do you still charge?

If your random movement triggers the "halt here" part of the rules it obviously would have taken you further and inpact hits are appropriate, if your movement takes you exactly 1" away (or more obviously) from the unit then no impact hits take place.

That's not necessarily true. My movement could have me end up 1/2 inch away from the friendly unit. That takes me within the "halt here" part of the rules but not into the unit itself.

what about a situation where the HPA is trying to "Thread the needle" between two friendly units? There's more than enough space for it to go in between (so it doesn't HAVE to hit either unit if it continues forward), but not enough space for it to go in between with 1" on either side?

I don't think I'm allowed to deal impact hits to an enemy unit without actually being able to hit them, so why do I "side-swipe" my own units?

And a second situation -- what if I can hit an enemy unit, but I have to come within 1" of my own unit to do it? Does the "Charge" part of the random movement rule take precedence?

You dont have to alway be one Inch away, just have to end your movement one inch away.

This includes on the charge.

IMO if random movement takes your model with 1inch of a friendly unit the model stops one inch away and is done.

ShivanAngel wrote:IMO if random movement takes your model with 1inch of a friendly unit the model stops one inch away and is done.

Which is how it works for everyone but the HPA and Doomwheel.

Not sure if we've resolved this yet. As i see it, there are 6 possible situations, 2 of which are clearly covered by the rules:

1. My random movement and direction will carry me into a friendly unit. Per the rules, I stop 1 inch away and inflict impact hits

2. My random movement would carry me within 1 inch of a friendly unit and if I went 1 inch further in the same direction, I would hit the unit. It's not quite clear to me how to handle this situation, although I think there's a good case for impact hits.

3. My random movement would carry me to within 1 inch of a friendly unit AND leave me there, but if I went further in the same direction I would never make contact. Should I stop as soon as I'm an inch away, or go the full random movement, then bounce to an inch away? Do I inflict impact hits, even if I would never come into contact with the unit?

4. My random movement would carry me within 1 inch of a friendly unit AND would carry me further than 1 inch past the unit without making contact with it. Do I end up in the final position? Do I stop as soon as I'm an inch away? Do I inflict impact hits?

5. My random movement would carry me within 1 inch of a friendly unit, but I will end up in contact with an enemy unit. Per the rules (IMHO) I continue forward and do impact hits on the enemy unit.

6. (Bonus). What happens in one of the above situations (esp. 2, 3, and 4) if I would come within an inch of two friendly units at the same time? Impact hits on both?

1: yes

2: No impact hits

3: go full movement, bounce, no impact hits.

4: Final position, no impact.

5: you attack the enemy.

6: impact hits on both if your movement is enough to actually touch both your guys.

See I have to disagree with some of your answers Templar. The random movement rules say "If the random move brings the unit to within 1" of a friendly unit . . . it stops immediately"

This would prevent some of your answers and is the root of my problem.

Page 11 of the rulebook answers this question. The specific rules of the HPA and Doomwheel override the basic rules of Random Movement.

But their rules say to follow random movement. What Doomwheel exception applies?

Killjoy00 wrote:But their rules say to follow random movement. What Doomwheel exception applies?

Skaven FAQ

Page 67 – Rolling Doom
Replace this special rule with the following:
“The Doomwheel has the Random Movement special rule,
with the following exceptions.
• If the move takes it into a friendly unit, the creature will
inflict D6+1 S6 Hits, distributed in the same manner as
shooting attacks, and then stop 1" away from the unit (or flee
through it if it is fleeing).”
• The Doomwheel treats terrain in the same manner as a
Chariot.”
Note that the ‘Loss of Control’ rule remains unchanged.

Proof enough? Page 11 says that that this FAQ replacement of Rolling Doom supersedes any basic rules of movement.

Nothing in that rule supersedes the Random Movement rule that says if you WOULD come within 1 inch of another unit you stop. That's the initial point that you seem to be missing.

Random movement says stop if you WOULD come within 1 inch. Doomwheel says follow random movement except if you would go into a friendly unit, stop 1 inch away and do impact hits. But by following the random movement rule, you will never be "take[n] into a friendly unit."

Killjoy00 wrote:Nothing in that rule supersedes the Random Movement rule that says if you WOULD come within 1 inch of another unit you stop. That's the initial point that you seem to be missing.

Random movement says stop if you WOULD come within 1 inch. Doomwheel says follow random movement except if you would go into a friendly unit, stop 1 inch away and do impact hits. But by following the random movement rule, you will never be "take[n] into a friendly unit."

And you seem to be missing Page 11 from your rule book

Basic versus Advanced
Where rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules.

Ok, what are basic rules.

Basic rules apply to all models in the game, unless specifically stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting, close combat and so on, as well as the rules for Panic test.

I don't see how you're making an issue out of this. The FAQ says that if the random movement would have you run into a friendly model, than that unit takes impact hits and then the model stops 1" away.

I don't see how you can say that there is anything ambiguous about this. Page 11 says Rolling Doom will supersede the standard movement rules which include Random Movement. You seem to be under the impression that the Doomwheel uses Random Movement to move, it doesn't. It uses the Rolling Doom rule which has it's own rule set which you seem to be confusing with Random Movement.

You are missing the fact that "rolling doom" specifically says:

The Doomwheel has the Random Movement special rule,
with the following exceptions.

That means it follows Random Movement in all respects EXCEPT for what it says not to. Random movement says stop 1 inch away. Nothing in the exceptions contradicts that rule.

As above.

The FAQ would have to say it specifically CAN come into contact witha unit, and then X Y Z happen, otherwise it has not overidden the Random Movement rules which prevent you from coming into contact.

So from a RAI perspective, how would you play it?

hamsterwheel wrote:So from a RAI perspective, how would you play it?

There is no RAI on the internet.

It seems like they MEANT for it to be able to come into contact with friendly modles, and it certainly did in 7th - hopefully it will be in a future update.

I'd play it that it can run through friendlies just fine, as its the more fun way. I'm running a tournament at the end of the month and that will be my answer there as well, as this does seem to be a case of unintended consequences kicking in.

Nos (or others):

I would play it as they can run into friendlies as well. We were more concerned as what happens when it wouldn't actually run into the friendly, but would come within 1 inch of them. What would you do in those (2, 3, 4 from Teddet's list) situations?

If it cant run through them, then it must stop 1" away.

Same as if you overrun and would come within 1" of an enemy but not actually into base contct; it isnt a charge so you have t ostop 1" away.

In general the 1" rule wins out on all of these "almost!" situations!