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Hi all,

Two questions, possibly daft, but would appreciate the panel's views.

First question came up in a game at the weekend.

My dwarfs are in combat with some marauders to their front and a small unit of warriors to their right (too small to disrupt). They have already been in combat for a turn, and each side is wearing the other down.

My opponent has a war shrine in the dwarf's front arc. He wants to charge it into combat, shifting the marauders to the side and joining the fray. The marauder unit is wider than the dwarfs, so there is no space in the front rank. I was rather surprised at this, as I've never attempted this move and, as a dwarf player, I would benefit from being able to send reinforcements into a combat without having to walk into the side arc. He seemed rather surprised at me questioning it and perused the BRB for a good few minutes. Nothing in the BRB, so he agreed not to do it and we played on. Next round of combat, the marauders broke, I got their standard and won the game.

Should I have let him do it?


Second question about stand & shoot.

A unit of wood elf dryads charges a unit of dwarf quarrellers by coming out of some woods. Do the drayds count as in soft cover for the purposes of stand and shoot? (They are in cover at the time the shot is resolved, but it seems a bit odd).


Thanks for any input. I have read the rulebook and FAQ, but didn't see anything.

doctorludo wrote:My opponent has a war shrine in the dwarf's front arc. He wants to charge it into combat, shifting the marauders to the side and joining the fray. The marauder unit is wider than the dwarfs, so there is no space in the front rank. I was rather surprised at this, as I've never attempted this move and, as a dwarf player, I would benefit from being able to send reinforcements into a combat without having to walk into the side arc. He seemed rather surprised at me questioning it and perused the BRB for a good few minutes. Nothing in the BRB, so he agreed not to do it and we played on. Next round of combat, the marauders broke, I got their standard and won the game.

Should I have let him do it?

Well by RaW if the unit can't fit in any way possible the charge fails. The only way, i can think of, for him to succeed was for him to use a combat reform in the previous combat phase to "slide" the marauders over without reducing the number of fighting moddels, if he was able to open a corner for his shrine to get in base with you then he woul have been able to do it as corner to corner is base contact and thus combat.
Some pics or a diagram may help us help you better.

doctorludo wrote:A unit of wood elf dryads charges a unit of dwarf quarrellers by coming out of some woods. Do the drayds count as in soft cover for the purposes of stand and shoot? (They are in cover at the time the shot is resolved, but it seems a bit odd).

Stand and shoot is resolved as soon as the charger enders the shooting weapon's maximum range, so if the driads where already in range or would be in it before they leave the woods they would have cover.

HoverBoy wrote:

doctorludo wrote:My opponent has a war shrine in the dwarf's front arc. He wants to charge it into combat, shifting the marauders to the side and joining the fray. The marauder unit is wider than the dwarfs, so there is no space in the front rank. I was rather surprised at this, as I've never attempted this move and, as a dwarf player, I would benefit from being able to send reinforcements into a combat without having to walk into the side arc. He seemed rather surprised at me questioning it and perused the BRB for a good few minutes. Nothing in the BRB, so he agreed not to do it and we played on. Next round of combat, the marauders broke, I got their standard and won the game.

Should I have let him do it?

Well by RaW if the unit can't fit in any way possible the charge fails. The only way, i can think of, for him to succeed was for him to use a combat reform in the previous combat phase to "slide" the marauders over without reducing the number of fighting moddels, if he was able to open a corner for his shrine to get in base with you then he woul have been able to do it as corner to corner is base contact and thus combat.
Some pics or a diagram may help us help you better.

Cheers for the response. I think you've understood it fine. It couldn't fit in at all; that was the issue, as he'd gone for a wide frontage to maximise attacks. The marauders were completely blocking the way between the shrine and the dwarfs' front arc.

The problem with the combat reform approach is that the unit has to reform around a central point, and no model can be removed from combat (as you've pointed out). This doesn't allow him to slide.

Out of interest, is this an over-strict RAW interpretation? Would others have played it differently?

Goign to add something to Hovers correct statement


You use the maximum range, of the shortest range weapon in the unit.

So if the unit was 24 quarrelers and one character with a pistol, the range would be determined at (IIRC) 16 inches. ( or the max range of the pistol). Its really fun to put one character with a throwing weapon in there to make everything shoot at range 8 so you dont lose the -1.


Also I would not have played it differently... If it cant fit it cant fit....

doctorludo wrote:The problem with the combat reform approach is that the unit has to reform around a central point.

Ahh yes my bad we have a house rule that allows sliding when combat reforming.

doctorludo wrote:Out of interest, is this an over-strict RAW interpretation? Would others have played it differently?

Yes this is the RAW, however given the local house rule i mentioned, i would have likely allowed my opponent to try and slide reform his unit (in the case of a loss counting any applicable modifiers to his LD test) as if it was last turn's combat phase. But truth be told this is just a house rule and should be agreed on by the local group, or at least your opponnent.

ShivanAngel wrote:Goign to add something to Hovers correct statement


You use the maximum range, of the shortest range weapon in the unit.

So if the unit was 24 quarrelers and one character with a pistol, the range would be determined at (IIRC) 16 inches. ( or the max range of the pistol). Its really fun to put one character with a throwing weapon in there to make everything shoot at range 8 so you dont lose the -1.

Good point. I usually go for pistols where possible for CC boost and extra shots at short range. Hadn't thought of this!

It's a great trick for shooty armies who have such options

Two things I thought I'd mention/correct.


First, the FAQ removed the "around the center of the unit" mess for combat reforms. A lot of people have missed this. Combat reforms just need to keep the same amount of people in base to base contact and not contact a new unit/edge. Otherwise, you can form into odd shapes all you want while in combat

Second, stand and shoot is resolved AS IF the charger was at the maximum range. You don't move the charger at all during the stand and shoot reaction. So you take the charger as they are, which might mean they are behind cover/almost out of line of sight/who knows where.

It could also mean tehy are beyond the maximum range of the firing weapons - this simply is there to simplify the mess that was S&S in 7th, where you would move the unit to just within max range (if outside), resolve S&S, resolve flee etc from this point, then carrry on.

This is now a one step deal - if you declare S&S you do so immediately, before moving anything. Makes it much faster and much more precise

Killjoy00 wrote:First, the FAQ removed the "around the center of the unit" mess for combat reforms.

I knew it, just couldn't find it
As for the S&S i guess i goofed on that one