Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello all. I have a little problem. You see, I have too many Space Marine armies. I have a 3,000 point shooty Ultramarines army. I have a 1,500 point Blood Angels DoA army. I have 1,500 points of Marines that I don't even know what I want to do with yet. Heck, I have 30 metal Terminators that I am not using. Finally, I have 1,500 of Black Templars that I am not even sure I want.

So, my question is, what can you do with Black Templars in 5th? Since Mech is king, are BT's only good in a Mech list? Used to be the 20 man squad was the way to go. Is this still the thing in 5th, with so many AP 3 and Templast weapons? Sure, the Codex is still able, but what do you think will happen in a NEW Codex? Still going to hang on to the Vows?

Basically, I am looking for reasons to play Black Templars over Blood Angels or Space Wolves, like everyone else on the planet seems to be playing. I already have a shooty Mech list with my Ultramarines, so why would I need another?

Discuss...

BTs can actually do a decent foot shooting list with Terminator AssCann spam.

Beyond that... no idea.

True, but we can assume that Assault Cannons will not be "spamable" in the next Codex.

Let's break this down for easier responses...

10 Initiantes and 10 Neophytes should cause around 15 Wounds if they get to assault.

10 VV Marines, without Power Weapons and such, can dish out around 10 Wounds if they get to assault.

20 Troops should have more stamina than 10...

But, is it easier to blast 20 models before they get into combat?

You're not going to find the answer you're looking for by breaking the analysis down to that level. Newer codices will simply look better due to cheaper models and wargear, Space Wolves especially.

You've got to focus on what the BT can do that other codices can't, and decide if the list is worth running on that merit. Land Raiders immune to lance weapons, Asscan spam on foot Termies...

And the Black Templar drop pods use the vastly superior 4th ed rules, so instead of auto-dropping on turn 1 with half of your pods, you roll everyone in from reserves, starting at turn 2. This makes it much harder to defeat a Templar pod list by simply reserving everything.

you can also do Landraider spam like no other army.

16 guys piling out of a LRC is not something any army wants to face.

multiply it by 5 and you have some serious hurt coming down.

In an 1850 list you can field over 100 s5 t4 models with pistol + sword that are scoring, and still have points left over to hide pfist/melta in all the squads.

In an 1850 list you can field over 100 s5 t4 models with pistol + sword that are scoring

Don't forget that initiates do not benefit from Suffer not the unclean to live. Not sure if that 100 includes them, but I assume so.

BTs can actually do a decent foot shooting list with Terminator AssCann spam.

Beyond that... no idea.

Tank hunting assault cannons (and powerfists), no less.

I had pretty good success with nothing but 20 man crusaders squads, grimaldus, and a captain. The crusader squads are silly fast, score, and can kill literally anything in the game (althrough they are better suits to some things than others). Plus not many build to take out 80+ marines.

That's what I was wondering, if 20 man squads are even possible in the Mech/Melta/MC environment. Seriously, when almost every Codex is packed with 2 or 3 AP weapons and cheap vehicles, are 5 or 6 Meltaguns even going to be a threat? Especially when they are spread out all over the tabletop?

I know that I can take some great advantages NOW, with Tank Hunters and the like. But, I know that these advantages will vanish in the next Codex also. So, I'm wondering what the community's ideas are.

And, no offense, but I do not like "spam" armies. Sure, they may be good for tournaments, but they are really boring in friendly games.

I am a Fluffy Nutter, so Fluff is more important to me than 6 Min/Max Las/Plas squads and 3 double Assault Cannon Tank Hunting Terminator squads. It just seems like builds like this lack....stye?

Is any other build possible in 5th?

Most players don't spam vehicles that won't go down to dozens of S5 and S4 hits to the back, led by absurd amounts of BP fire. For the players that are spamming vehicles resistant to that sort of thing, 4-8 meltas and some meltabombs or Pfists should be adequate (those vehicles are unlikely to pose a serious threat to you anyway)

Good builds use stuff that is good, if you have preemptively decided that good, or multiples of good things, or whatever, is bad, then no, there are probably no good builds out there that use like a bike chaplain over here, a LRC over there, some dudes with jump packs over here, maybe a 10 man squad over there, some vets thrown in with random weapons for kicks, etc etc.

And the fluff is whatever they felt like crapping out that afternoon. Here's your fluff: "My holy templar guys took the field and mightily vanquished the enemy with (insert weapon you used alot here) and it was a huge battle and they totally got blood on their shoes and all that stuff that always happens when SM armies kill whatever they are fighting"

It's also not really fluffy for SM to lose, or take take stuff that is bad on purpose.

Preferred Enemy "stock" assault termies with dual claws are pretty nice piling out of LRC and the BT everything in Pod army is really strong, played vs one at an 1850 RTT a while back and it was WAY better than traditional pod list cause everything comes in from true reserve rolls!
his list was 4 pods and 2 LRC.....gave me one helluva game!

P

I see spammed IG blobs work wonders, so why can't blob BT work wonders. I think that many models can do very well, you can get enough meltaguns to handle tanks, along with PF, have great saves, and just lots of units they have to shoot at.

CaptainLoken wrote:
And, no offense, but I do not like "spam" armies. Sure, they may be good for tournaments, but they are really boring in friendly games.

I am a Fluffy Nutter, so Fluff is more important to me than 6 Min/Max Las/Plas squads and 3 double Assault Cannon Tank Hunting Terminator squads. It just seems like builds like this lack....stye?

Fluff?

Marshall German McTeutonname when confronted by the orks of WAAGH! Killstuff quickly discovered that his traditional tactics of large squads of initiates weren't working. he discovered that large squads allowed the orks to concentrate their numbers. Insteat he formed his men into small squads, forcing the orks to do the same where the marines superior fighting skills were more effective in the smaller skirmishes.

There's your fluff for MSU.

CaptainLoken wrote:I am a Fluffy Nutter, so Fluff is more important to me than 6 Min/Max Las/Plas squads and 3 double Assault Cannon Tank Hunting Terminator squads. It just seems like builds like this lack....stye?

I don't think you're describing fluff, I think you're describing diversity.

Vulkan and ten billion melta/flamer marines/land speeders is definitely fluffy. I don't think you'd enjoy playing it given the criteria you show.

So then the real question is, 'would a mixed bag BT list do well'? Probably not. Or at least, very few lists with one drop pod, one Land Raider, one squad of guys in rhinos, one squad of 20 foot dudes, one missile shooty term squad, and one Assterm squad actually do well when played.