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Came up in a recent game at the FLGS and I'm wondering where do you draw LOS from on the Manticore? (the guard tank with four missiles)

Vehicles shooting draw LOS from their weapons. In case of the Manticore pick one of the missiles.

First of all, most of the time you do not have to draw LOS since it is an ordinance barrage weapon, meaning it doesn't need LOS.

However if you moved with it, and are using the regular ordinance rule instead of barrage then you draw LOS from the missiles on the vehicle. If you can draw LOS from any of them, you have LOS. Even if you have fired 3 of the 4 missiles, they are still one weapon system and LOS can be drawn from any of them.

Well, you're told to draw LOS for a vehicle's weapon "from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel". The Manticore doesn't have a barrel, so it can't draw LOS.

Of course, this is a silly answer, just like saying Wraithlords can't draw LOS because they have no eyes.

But it does mean that there is no "proper" RAW answer, so it's up to you and your opponent to work out a reasonable answer. But, I don't think anyone would have a problem with saying you draw LOS from one of the missile warheads.

So any point on any missile is the standard then?

Aduro wrote:So any point on any missile is the standard then?

There is no standard since there's no barrel on the weapon. So regardless of what we say, really what matters is that you and your opponent agree which is always best done before the game begins.

The rules state that you must trace a line of sight from the weapon's mounting and along its barrel to the target. While the Manticore doesn't have barrels, it certainly has mountings, so I figure the closest you can get is measuring from the point at which your missiles connect to your turret on your Manticore. I've played that way for a while and no-one has even commented on it.

Lone Dragoon wrote:First of all, most of the time you do not have to draw LOS since it is an ordinance barrage weapon, meaning it doesn't need LOS.

A quick side-note. I believe that IF you are firing ordnance barrage at a target that is "in sight" you can still subtract the BS of the firer from the scatter. You are still firing indirectly and still must abide by any minimum distance rules, cover coming from the center of the blast marker, etc. (Pg.58 'Ordnance Barrage Weapons' Para.4)

I'm curious about this one too, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

DoW

Yuppers!

If a vehicle firing an ordnance barrage can see it's target it can still subtract BS. Even if it is not direct firing as normal ordnance. If it fires out of LOS, it scatters full distance. This makes Ordnance Barrage very deadly if the vehicle firing can happen to see a vehicle target with front armour 14 facing. The firer still gets side armour, subtracts BS and gets 2d6 pick the highest for penetration. Even worse if the vehicle does not have smoke, kustom force field, storm caller, or that blood angel storm caller equivalent...

On P. 58 it specifies that you only scatter full if you cannot see your target.


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Oh, and I'd say you draw your arc of fire from one of the missile racks facing forward only.

They are fixed weapon mounts on the current model so each missile would have it's own 45degree arc to fire from.

A reason I like the forgeworld kit is the turret on it.

Dog and NTFH made a good point that if you can see with the weapons you subtract scatter. However my comment was from the fact that I play manticores in my guard army, and I do everything in my power to make sure they stay OUT of LoS, means they live longer. If my opponent can see the missiles on the manticore they can shoot it, and at that point since it's only a Chimera chassis, it's game over for that one.

I would play it as the point on the rack between the two centre missiles.

Right were my adequately photoshopped arrow is pointing. Yeah, that little camera thingy.



S_P

That's a reasonable way to play but nothing in the rules supports using targeting devices to draw LoS from (regardless of how sensible that may be)

I think at this point we have to simply find the "reasonable way to play" as the rules simply do not cover vehicle weapons that do not have "barrels." It's similar to how the non-vehicle LoS rules do not cover models that do not have "eyes."

Grakmar wrote:Well, you're told to draw LOS for a vehicle's weapon "from each weapons' mounting and along its barrel". The Manticore doesn't have a barrel, so it can't draw LOS.

Of course, this is a silly answer, just like saying Wraithlords can't draw LOS because they have no eyes.

But it does mean that there is no "proper " RAW answer, so it's up to you and your opponent to work out a reasonable answer. But, I don't think anyone would have a problem with saying you draw LOS from one of the missile warheads.

Wraithlords do have souls!

Oh wait you said eyes.


As stated, from any missile you like.

willydstyle wrote:I think at this point we have to simply find the "reasonable way to play" as the rules simply do not cover vehicle weapons that do not have "barrels." It's similar to how the non-vehicle LoS rules do not cover models that do not have "eyes."

Down the length of the weapon has got to be the most sensible. What do people do about hellstrike missiles on Valks?

Scott-S6 wrote:

willydstyle wrote:I think at this point we have to simply find the "reasonable way to play" as the rules simply do not cover vehicle weapons that do not have "barrels." It's similar to how the non-vehicle LoS rules do not cover models that do not have "eyes."

Down the length of the weapon has got to be the most sensible. What do people do about hellstrike missiles on Valks?

Replace them with multiple rocket pods?

Well, yes.

But rocket pods have the same problem - no barrel. Yet people have no problem drawing LoS from the rockets.