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Noticed that the UK masters event is happening soon and the lists were posted that all the players will be using. This is an event with the top 16 players in the UK so guess the field is good.

Wonder if anyone who is better than me at reading the meta game has anything to say about the lists? Who do you think will win and is it a reflection on how warhammer 40,000 is being played competitively everywhere? Also do you think its a reflection of how good the codexes are -no orks, no sisters, no tau etc.

http://www.rankingshq.com/masters/profile.aspx?MasterId=9

They are all there.

These player's lists show that the metagame in england favors alot of MSU and plenty of anti-vehicle. SO much that even the guard lists have a distinct lack of templates needed to kill hordes, while the lack of lascannons and the lesser prevelance of melta also say that these people do not expect alot of heavy armor, like monoliths an land raiders to take the field.

It is pretty usual of the current 5th edition metagame, where mech is king and big units, at least to many competitive players, are a hinderence, because they require you to put more points into a single place.

It says that the metagame we have now is here to stay, at least until 6th edition comes out. Even then, 6th may make mechanization more powerful than it is now, so we will have to wait on that.

The glaring weaknesses I see in most of these lists is the fact that they have no durability, no lasting power because of how little wounds the squads have to eat through before being destroyed.

Bear in mind that 1500 is a different metagame than 1750 or 2000. These lists are smaller than most of the lists we usually see in the US.

After reading through the rules pack it seems 3 games are at 1500, 3 games are at 1750 so yeah quite small games.

They have also changed capture and control or something?

Those are all stock standard, hard core tournament lists, as you would expect at that level.

Mech IG
Wolfstar Wolves
Dual Lash Chaos
Mechdar
Fatecrusher Daemons
Blob spam IG
Steeler/tervigon/HG spam Bugs
Mech BA

All the big dogs are there apart from Orks, which may struggle at 1500.

The only list that stood out to me really was the 1st DE list with 5 Homunculae and 2 WWPs. Seems like a bit different way to play the list. Also, the non-fatecrusher Daemon list, although it wasn't much of a deviation from the norm.

The thing I don't like about 1500 is that it doesn't leave much room for anything but the absolute essentials. A lot of those lists are nearly identical. 2K allows you to customize your list to a far higher degree.

It looks like a really fun event though, I look forward to seeing how the results come out.


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Also, two IG players have 6 Hydras, which is something you don't see this side of the pond that frequently. I can see the utility though, they are so amazingly good for their points.

I was a little surprised to see no Orks. I think they actually do fine in smaller games. After eking out a win against Yermom in R3 of the Iron man event last summer, I had to beat a tight Ork list in round 4 to win my ticket.

I would imagine the green tide at 1500 would be very hard to beat as most lists pack in almost exclusively AT weapons at that points level, but I have never played against or with it so I couldn't say. Dual Lash Chaos may be too much to overcome though, and you know you will see that at 1500 as it is one of the best lists at that points level.

Personally I was surprised to see no Vulkan, he is really popular in my area and all the lists would have had lots of targets for meltas/flamers. Was it the 1500 points that put people off him do you think?

I couldn't say. Vulkan lists are excellent, and can be very strong at any points level. Perhaps there just wasn't a player using a Vulkan list that qualified? Who knows.

Yeah that's what I thought too, vulkan termies back up with nullzone are a threat for all the other superunits running around, plus twin linked MM deals with imperial guard tanks quite well.

And I tap my island to play doom of malanti...

Meta talk makes me sad :*(

Phototoxin wrote:And I tap my island to play doom of malanti...

Meta talk makes me sad :*(

Reecius wrote:Those are all stock standard, hard core tournament lists, as you would expect at that level.

Mech IG
Wolfstar Wolves
Dual Lash Chaos
Mechdar
Fatecrusher Daemons
Blob spam IG
Steeler/tervigon/HG spam Bugs
Mech BA

I think this is a fairly correct statement, although many of the lists have (sometimes significant) deviations from the 'internet copy and paste' competitive lists in order to cater for each players individual style or whatever.
I think some of those lists were a fairly big step away from the norm, such as the fragility and lack of transports shown in some lists or the 1st Dark Eldar list (which Reecius rightly pointed out). I actually think that some of these lists didn't have that much anti-tank compared to what I usually see and neither Tyranid list had more than 1 Trygon. Personally, I think many of these are a step away from the norm. Also note the lack of Fire Prisms in the Eldar forces.

Personally, I think the Chaos Space Marine lists could be the ones to beat here, or the 6-hydra Guard or 1st Dark Eldar. It's nice to see Eldar and Chaos still having a definitive presence, despite peoples constant criticisms of these armies.

Finally, are the Chaos Space Marine lists exactly the same? This could've just been me or an error, but if someone could correct/confirm this that'd be good...

Hmm for some reason the link does not show up on my BB

/sadpanda

The chaos space marine lists are very VERY similar. Both darn boring too, what a shame.

In a codex that is widely regarded to have approximately two viable builds (Dudes in Rhinos or Dudes in Rhinos + Monster Mash), why does that surprise you?

It might be "nice" to see some oddball list build do well (especially Chaos), but if it hasn't been happening for the last 5 years why would it simply crop up now?

@Just Dave
Yeah, that DE list intrigued me, too. Not much else to see in the other.

I think the reason we see CSM and Edlar here is because they max in power at 1500. Above that and the units they add dilute their overall potency. They are still powerhouses at that level though.

@Lunarman
Why are they boring? That is the best list in the book and this is a master tournament. What were you expecting? I like oddball armies, as does everyone, but you don't get to that point playing a list that isn't hard core effective. They are not objectively any more boring than any other type of list, just more common. That is the price you pay for 1500 points in an ultra competitive environment. But hey, that is what campaigns are for: possessed, raptors, bikes, etc.

@Sourclams
You said it.

Reecius wrote:@Just Dave
Yeah, that DE list intrigued me, too. Not much else to see in the other.

I think the reason we see CSM and Edlar here is because they max in power at 1500. Above that and the units they add dilute their overall potency. They are still powerhouses at that level though.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how well it will do after a second glance however, it lacks much durability (Night/Flicker shields) in deploying the portals and I think it struggles to scale to 1750.

I completely agree about the CSM and Eldar, however I would argue that Chaos can do well at 2500pts or that range due to the power of some of their more expensive units/troop choices which they struggle to include otherwise. I also think that Eldar can be capable at 1750pts. But I do agree to 1500pts being their optimum.