Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, being less than fluent with the difference between the IA updates units and what can and can't be used in 40k, I ask:

Are there certain units listed in the IA updates that can be used in a regular 40k without your opponents permission? I've seen it written in said updates that such and such a unit can used as part of a {insert army} force as a {insert organisation chart slot} choice. I'm thinking along the lines of the nurgle blight drones, Eldar hornet etc. Stuff thats obviously not a super heavy or titan.

Generally speaking most people will be okay with you using some FW (edit: Imperial Armor/Apoc/etc) units, but you should ask before you play your opponent if they mind.

It is a nasty surprise to find out halfway through a game that your opponent is fielding FW units/rules

It depends a bit on the general consensus in your neighborhood. I think most people don't allow/like IA units by default, but for friendly games you can always ask and not many people will have a problem with it.

Tournaments should have the allowed lists and addendum's listed in their rules.

Units that have a "normal" place in the FOC, such as blight drones (Fast Attack ina Daemon army, from memory), are as much "opponents permission" to use as anything else in 40k, including playing the game at all.

All games start with "do you want to play?" and go from there.

As noted above if you wish to use "non standard" units, pointing this out explicitly and asking if they are ok with it is generally a polite thing to do!

I only play with friends and they don't mind me using my tomb stalker since they've all had the chance to read the rules and think it's an extremely balanced unit.

Cryage wrote:I only play with friends and they don't mind me using my tomb stalker since they've all had the chance to read the rules and think it's an extremely balanced unit.

Is that sarcasm? Maybe I'm just sensitive because my 'nid army doesn't have any lascannons.....

Reanimator wrote:Is that sarcasm? Maybe I'm just sensitive because my 'nid army doesn't have any lascannons.....

Nor toughness 7. . . .

Reanimator wrote:

Cryage wrote:I only play with friends and they don't mind me using my tomb stalker since they've all had the chance to read the rules and think it's an extremely balanced unit.

Is that sarcasm? Maybe I'm just sensitive because my 'nid army doesn't have any lascannons.....

The Tomb Stalker is a little rediculous.

Maybe if it one fewer wounds, drop the War Construct and Fleet.

This is assuming I've got the latest rules for it, located here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/t/tstalker.pdf

Grakmar wrote:

The Tomb Stalker is a little rediculous.

Ya its a little undercosted, should prob be 250 or so, but its not really that different than the tyranid monstrous creatures running around for about the same cost. And it runs into the same probs the tyranid have, no inv save and a 3+ armor, and with T7 instead of 8 bolters and the like can still damage it at least unlike wraithlords.

Add to that the necrons horribly outdated/outclassed codex and I would have no problem letting necron players field tomb stalkers, if only because of the pity factor.

Reanimator wrote:So, being less than fluent with the difference between the IA updates units and what can and can't be used in 40k, I ask:

Are there certain units listed in the IA updates that can be used in a regular 40k without your opponents permission? I've seen it written in said updates that such and such a unit can used as part of a {insert army} force as a {insert organisation chart slot} choice. I'm thinking along the lines of the nurgle blight drones, Eldar hornet etc. Stuff thats obviously not a super heavy or titan.

Many units in Imperial Armor list exactly what force organization choice they can be used in 'normal' (non-apocalypse) games of 40K. Also, the back of Imperial Armor: Apoclaypse 2 actually has a listing of all Imperial Armor units (up until that point) and what force organization section they fall into.

As to whether you can use these units without your 'opponent's consent' the answer is no. You can't actually play any game without your opponent's consent.

Now, whether or not your opponent should give their consent to play with Imperial Armor units is entirely up to both you and them because you're perfectly able to refuse to play him if he doesn't want to allow you to use your Imperial Armor unit. Just be aware that Imperial Armor rules are an 'expansion' to the standard 40K rules, if that makes any difference to your or your opponent as to whether or not to utilize these rules in your games.

Games Workshop makes a game called 40K. It is defined by rules that GW produces in a BRB and a number of codices.

THAT is defined, by GW, as the game of 40K.

When you ask someone to play 40K, that is the GW game as defined by GW.

There are other places and companies that create rules that can be played with 40K, but they are not part of the 40K rules, thus not part of the 40K game. If you use those rules, then you are modifying the game. To play with modified rules, without asking your opponent, seems a lot like cheating.


There is a company that makes alternate rules for playing Chess. If I asked you to play chess, but started using those rules.... you might be a bit miffed.

IA units come from books now marked "40K Expansion", just like Planetstrike, Cities of Death, Spearhead and Apocalypse are.

The question is; would you field/use any rules from Planetstrike, Cities of Death, Spearhead and Apocalypse without talking to your opponent about it? The same answer applies to IA.

Thanks for all your help, you've ceertainly helped to clarify the issue for me. Cheers!

Actually the rules for playing an unbound army state that you can use any models in you collection without restriction. The only catch is you dont get the benefits from detachments or formations. So my understanding of this is that you can use apocalypse/IA/whatever units, but not formations.

There is nothing explicitly requiring permission anymore with the introduction of the LoW choice, but in the spirit of the game, it's generally a good idea to inform your opponent of any such choices.

Especially if they're the likes of the Supremacy Suit or a Titan of any kind. Actually any Super-heavies and Gargantuans should probably be pointed out beforehand, even Knights.

malcontent333 wrote:
Actually the rules for playing an unbound army state that you can use any models in you collection without restriction. The only catch is you dont get the benefits from detachments or formations. So my understanding of this is that you can use apocalypse/IA/whatever units, but not formations.

There was no such thing as 'Unbound' back in 2011, which is when this thread was last active before someone dug it back up.

This was a thread from 2011, so there is confusion based on rules having been changed in the last 5 years. Please try to double-check the date on the last reply in a thread before posting in it, and if its more than 30 days and is about topical information (such as rules, which get rewritten over the years), then it is probably best not to reply.

Locking now.