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What do you like and dislike about the new rules? What are your best and worst moment so far?

I think the rules are very solid now. I still hate the new points system though.

I really like them, though I haven't played against Hordes at ALL yet in Mk II

Love 'em, though I still miss Iron Curtain.

Having just started, I love the lower points system. Why does everything have to be multipled by 10 in most games? 7 or 8 points instead of 75 all the way!!

As I see it the points are as follows:

15, 25, 35, 50, 75.
So it's not all just 10 point increases.

15: Starter Level
25: Baby Steps
35: Decent amount on the board, good for pick up games.
50: Good for arranged games.
75: Good for getting all/most your fav. models onto the board

Whoops, I meant as compared to MKI or warhammer, where games are played at 750 or 2000 points instead of 75 or 200, for example (multiplied by 10).

I don't ever see myself playing at 75 points in Hordes but we'll see!! Definitely 35/50 seem like great sizes for games... I'm doing an escalation league and we had 15 last week, 25 tonight, to be followed by 35 and 50!

There are problems though with the base 10 point scale where you do not have the half point. There are several units that need that half point scale because they are either too cheap (Black 13th for example) at their current points or too expensive (Centurion, Junior). The B13th are almost always included or highly recommended because of their cost and Junior and the Cent have the same beef that they aren't worth it except in certain cases (pNemo and Kraye respectively). This is obviously a Cygnar perspective but I'd wager most factions have at least a couple units like that.

It is easier to do the maths though when a jack costs 8 points versus 117 points.

The biggest game I've done is 50 points both with a single and multi caster level. Anything over that I think would be hard to play with a single caster.

The other thing I really like is it doesn't seem like any one faction is overpowered and immune to the game (while I pick on Cryx about it, they really aren't) like certain Hordes factions were in Mk1 (*cough*Circle*cough*). So far there seems to be a pretty good balance, IMO.

Well, in warhammer there are half points (I believe shield upgrades for skaven, for example) so there's no stopping there being half points in warmahordes, if they wanted to do it!

Yep, I agree. They made the decision during the field test for Warmachine that there would be no half points despite the players saying they really needed it.

I think MK2 is a really solid rules system that makes for quick and fast games if both players know what they're doing. What I'm still getting used to is how concise most of the rules have become, and I really like that they consolidated Abilities A, B, C, and D that all did the same thing into just Ability A. The point system took a while to get used to, but I'm also glad that I don't need a calculator anymore to make up army lists.

12thRonin wrote:Yep, I agree. They made the decision during the field test for Warmachine that there would be no half points despite the players saying they really needed it.

But they don't really need half points. If you think that the Black 13th is too cheap, for example, you can raise them to 5 points. If that makes them to expensive, you can either leave them at 4 points and pull an ability, or raise them to 5 points and add an ability.

Black 13th example:
Keep the black 13th at 4 points and remove Mage Storm. Without question the unit is now less powerful.

Bump the Black1 3th to 5 points and add true sight to the whole unit instead of just Lynch.

Centurion example:
Reduce the Centurion to 8 points, leave it exactly as it is.

Keep the Centurion at 9 points and make polarity shield trigger with one focus spent instead of making it a * action.

There is no particular reason to HAVE to change the point system if you just tweak abilities to fit the points.

It has been a great year for norwegian WM/H at least, we've risen from 5 to 40-50 players this year.

I have never quite understood the idea that you need a great deal of granularity in the points systems, myself. As Endgame points out, models are seldom designed to a certain cost: rather, they are designed to a certain role. If they seem under-or overcosted, you can change the rules and possibly also their role. In Mk1 the No Quarter tactical tips for Epic Madrak included his "Great Chief" ability. Unfortunately, he had no "Great Chief" ability - it was removed before release. You can see this tweaking all over the place. Aptimus Markeths Forces Book description mentions abilities he simply do not possess - his weapon Gravitas has "flavor text" for something like Dispel, for example.

With all the customization GW games have, the greater granularity becomes more pressing. However, it still leads to odd costing issues (discount Dark Elf spearmen, etc). WM/H, on the other hand, has no model customization. So it is frankly not that necessary.

One advantage of a lower points system is that it becomes a more orderly affair, overall - easier to manage and add things to - models, Theme Forces, whatever. I have always felt that one of the big mistakes Spartan Games made with Uncharted Seas was caving to fan pressure to produce a recost system that US/FS:A/DW simply do not need. Ok, perhaps the initial points were a bit too limiting for the ships' rules, but overall, a lower points value system would have helped them in the future.

Spartan's mistakes were rewriting the rules for Uncharted Seas every other week in general to appease the forums, but that's another discussion.

I don't disagree with the counter points to the half point, but having the half point adds in more flexibility in creating a unit and balancing it.

For me, MKII is how I felt when I first started playing WM 7 years ago. The rules are tight, the armies have been rebalanced, but there's still strong models, and the game is still agressive and destructive.

I personally love how concise the rules are, as that usually leaves less room for interpretation, which is where people wind up arguing.

MKII all the way baby.