Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Welllll, I'm an old player looking to start 40k again (my last armies were SM and Eldar, although that was around 7 years ago, and I was around 10 then, haha so I don't really remember much or know any of the new rule updates). I've been reading abit of the fluff on the GW website, and I've narrowed it down to Space Wolves, Tau or Eldar as the armies I enjoy the look of/background, although it doesn't really say much about the playing style of each army. Can anyone give me the pros/cons in terms of playing style for each? Thank you.

Play Tau. No one these days.

Too many Wolves *myself included* but I may make a Ork army when I have money again.

What style of play do you like?

Tau - Shooty, shooty and shooty (no fluff)
Eldar - Complex and fun! No room for mistakes
Space Puppies - Fun and forgiving - Balanced

I don't know really. I guess I enjoy an army which can be quite versatile. I would prefer an army with hard hitting ranged weaponry and heavy defence, but would still be formitable in close combat (enough not to get absolutely thrashed).

I don't mind if you guys suggest other armies too .

Eldar have lost some kick since they are on 4th addition codex. The SW codex is pretty good. When I was looking to start a codex chapter SM army everyone was pointing me to BA or SW.

Go Space Pups. IMHO.

Or give BA a read...

I'll have a look into BA!

Tyranids, so you can always have a good reason to play with other armies. (other than 'renegade I.G vs Renegade S.M... )

Meadowland wrote:I don't know really. I guess I enjoy an army which can be quite versatile. I would prefer an army with hard hitting ranged weaponry and heavy defence, but would still be formitable in close combat (enough not to get absolutely thrashed).

I don't mind if you guys suggest other armies too .

So you want an army that is good at shooting, good in CC, and hard to kill?

Marines, or their 9,000 variants. SW...I mean, Team Jacob is the current craze, with their somewhat new codex. I've always preferred Vanilla over the variants, though in pure gameplay terms the variants are better (particularly BA or SW).

Individually, Eldar units can be good at either shooting, CC, and still be hard to kill. If a unit of (insert Aspect Warrior unit here) is given support from a Farseer, they can be formidable in whatever their supposed to do (take down MEQs in CC, take down non-MEQs in CC, shoot at something), they can do it very effectively and survive while doing it. I personally finally sat down and read the whole codex and absolutely fell in love with their fluff. I'm pretty dedicated to them now, and will stick with them through thick and...well, thick, since everything new wipes the floor with us now.

to fill all three critera (of being hard to kill, hard in ranged combat, and hard in melee) you'd have to go with Loganwing. However you will be absolutely outnumbered and, while you are hard to kill, every loss will be devastating.

Tau
Pros-some of the strongest guns in the game, markerlights, really really powerful shooting (did I mention they do a lot of shooting?)
Cons- Almost zero CC effectiveness, not very survivable

Eldar
Pros- very specialized units, when handled masterfully can be devistating
Cons- large learning curve (so I've heard), need to be handled masterfully

Space Wolves
Pros- one of the newest codexes (very powerful), models have a lot of character, tend to have very easy to handle strong builds
Cons- some players consider them "over powered" (be prepared to be stereotyped), IMO boring fluff


My personal fav is Tau, I really like the look and feel of the army. Eldar I have heard require a very good understanding of the game to be succesful. Space wolves are (IMO) easy to win with, and therefore not much fun. But pick what ever makes you happiest.

The Kroot have some CC skill. With a Shaper and a few Kroot Hounds, even MEQs would be evenly matched.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:to fill all three critera (of being hard to kill, hard in ranged combat, and hard in melee) you'd have to go with Loganwing. However you will be absolutely outnumbered and, while you are hard to kill, every loss will be devastating.

Hmm if I have to sacrifice one of those aspects it would probably be CC.

Are the Tau/Elder codex particularly outdated?

I'd go with Eldar.

And yes, they are older. Eldar isn't bad but the Tau one is pretty tough. Their new one is definitely in the works, we've already been getting rumors about it so it can't be more than a year off.

Eldar are really rewarding when played right, Space wolves are a real forgiving army. I dont play tau so i wont comment on that

Hmm I'll probably go with Eldar, considering that they'll likely be getting a new codex soon aswell (?), thanks guys .

i really wish for a new codex soon... but no word from GW, or rumours of a Eldar codex coming in the next years

I prefer Eldar and Tau, but for what you are looking for, Space Wolves or Blood Angels is probably your best bet. Besides, the Blood Angels are getting a cute flyer later this year.

I've been reading and I heard the Grey Knights are next in getting a new codex? Are they part of the DH? As I personally prefer the look of the DH more then Space Wolves, although they look expensive right now.

I know nothing about the DH. No one in our area plays them.

They look very cool. You can download the current codex from the GW website.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440168a&categoryId=400033§ion=&aId=9800044a

Hello,

The search for a new army is difficult. You have the first step down. Reading the background and playing an army who's background you enjoy will make the game and hobby a better experience for you.

The three(four) armies you have indicated currently play very differently.

On the most basic level, the Space Wolves codex is from 2009 and is designed for the 5th edition. The Tau and Eldar are both from 2006 and were designed for 4th edition. Both of these books suffered penalties from the change over from 4th edition. (Tau less so than Eldar) These changes in rule sets have limited the number of effective units and army builds from these codices. This is not to say that they are not effective. While their builds are more limited, they are still very powerful and quite capable of competing and winning tournaments if that is what you aim for.

Since the release of the Imperial Guard book in the summer of 2009, GW has done a much better job of balancing the codices against each other while still allowing for each book to have its own character and more importantly for you, a much wider variety of viable army builds or archtypes then the more limited older codices. Since it was released after the IG book, the Space Wolves codex had benefited from this new idea and has many more viable army builds than the other two older codexes.

One of the biggest changes from 4th to 5th edition was the greatly enhanced emphasis on troop choices. In 2/3 of the missions, troop choices are required to claim objectives and to hold them against assault. In this area, the Space Wolves really shine. Their basic troop, the Grey Hunter, has a superior statline to either of the other two codices's troops and a better armor save. In addition, special rules allow Grey Hunters to be much more resistant when they are assaulted compared to the other two. Unfortunately, this emphasis in troops was not present when the Eldar and Tau codexes were designed and their troops are not really very good. Most of the time a minimum squad is crammed into a vehicle and never gets out as they are too fragile to survive. Part of this is by design, Tau and Eldar have lower toughness scores which makes them less resistant to damage. Unfortunately, both unit size and cost were not adjusted to account for this balance. Most of the time, these units function count as 50 or 60 point scoring upgrades to their race's already pricey transports instead of meaningfully contributing to the battle. This is one of the biggest knocks against the two older codexes.

With all that out of the way, lets look at your criteria.
I guess I enjoy an army which can be quite versatile. I would prefer an army with hard hitting ranged weaponry and heavy defence, but would still be formitable in close combat

Hard-Hitting Ranged Weaponry
Eldar--Eldar are a very mobile, but predominately shooty army. They can put out an enormous amount of shots and they have psychic powers which allow them to increase the effectiveness of their firepower by re rolling hits or wounds. However, the power of the shots they put out is not very high and the range rather low. While strength 6 shots will mow down infantry, they struggle to destroy tanks. In an increasingly mechanized game, this is a bad thing. This forces them back onto their very expensive heavy weapons for tank killing, this limitation along with the increasing number of units that can stop or minimize the pyschic powers which really grease the wheels for eldar. All said though, their extreme mobility can compensate for this by allowing them better angles to shot.

Tau--Tau are also a mobile, shooty army. The are the premier direct fire shooty army in the game. (IG does indirect bombardment better) Tau has adapted much better to an increasingly mechanized game because of the high volume of powerful anti tank shots. A 2000 point tau army can easily put 30 or more strength 7 or higher shots downrange from up to 36 inches away. The are the final answer in ranged firepower and have the ability to make in more accurate through the use of targeting sensors called markerlights.

Space Wolves are designed as a shooty army and they have builds that can compete with the best shooty armies in the game. They also can bring a large amount of high strength firepower to bear. The trade off is that to go all out on the shooting, these builds become very static, gunline armies. Space Wolves also have a higher average ballistic skill than these other two armies. This means the will hit more often than the other two.

Heavy Defense

Defense is a little tricky, so I will break it down into resistance to close combat or assault damage and damage from shooting

Eldar--Speed is life for eldar. By constantly moving quickly the can make themselves harder to hit in both close combat and with shooting, however, if they ever get tied down they will collapse like a house of cards. Eldar have low toughness and poor armor saves and rely almost entirely on speed to survive. Some of their units have special rules that give them greater resistance to damage and they have a psychic power that allows the to re-roll failed saves to artificially increase the survivability.

Tau--Defense for Tau is a very yin and yang type of deal. Against shooting, Tau are among the more resistant armies in the game. The have a vehicle upgrade that gives them cover against shots from more than 12 inches away and combined with well armored tanks and transports, their mech forces do quite well against. Like wise their battlesuits have an additional move in the assault phase which allows them to jump out, shoot, and then retreat into cover after firing their shots. In close combat, tau completely fold. Their weapon skill, initiative, and toughness are too low to compete with nearly anyone.

Space Wolves--Space Wolves have a generally high defense in both categories. While their mech forces have average armor, their infantry forces have a good armor save and average toughness. They have special rules which make them more resistant to assaults and actually have very effective assault focused units unlike the two armies above. Space wolves can compete across all three phases of the game(Movement, Shooting, Assault) without overly specializing in one and that is its own type of defense.

Formidable in close combat

Eldar--While eldar have dedicated assault units, they just aren't very good at what they do. They just didn't transfer well from 4th edition. Certain builds can generate a very formidable Close combat deathstar called a seer council, however, it rely on a certain psychic power to function properly, and the increase in numbers of units that can deny or disrupt the casting of this power have diminished its effectiveness. Eldar should really just stick to the movement and shooting phases where they excel.

Tau--Tau have no business being in close combat. If your tau are in close combat, you have probably on your way to losing the game. Many tau armies employ cheap squads as "Bubblewrap" to keep their shooty units out of close combat. As the Eldar should, Tau should stick to the movement and shooting phases.

Space Wolves--Space wolves can be tooled out to be great in close combat. They have several units that are very competent at assaults and virtually any unit can hold its own in close combat against all but the most dedicated assault specialists. They also have several special characters that can provide various close combat buffs to surrounding squads.

As a conclusion, lets look at some common army builds for each army and I will try to describe the play style and basic unit composition

Eldar
Mechdar--A bunch of pointly eared space elves rocketing around in hovercraft and jetbikes firing bastardized ninja weaponry into the enemy and using speed to probe for weaknesses

Seer Council--A very powerful bunch of Elf Warlocks on bikes zooming around causing death and destruction along with a small supporting cast.

Tau
Semi-Mech A powerful group of battlesuits darts between obstacles while firing missiles and plasma at the enemy, while a static support battery camps on a hill and rains death on the enemy

Space Wolves
Loganwing--A powerful group of warrior-lords descends from the sky on drop pods and charges into the fires of battle, leaving behind a bloody smear of enemies

Thunderwolf Cav--An group of space vikings riding giant wolves barreling down on the enemy with support fire covering their charge.

Razorwolves--A powerful battle line of tanks ensconsed in a strong defensive position dominating the battlefield with missiles and bolters

If you are still reading, I hope this rambling guide has proved useful. Don't just take my word for it though. Check out battle reports on dakka and other 40k sites to get a more well rounded picture.

I would highly recommend
http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/ which has army guides and is currently going though a basics article series
http://yesthetruthhurts.com/ for a more competative edge

Hope this helps,

razor

Nulipuli2 wrote:i really wish for a new codex soon... but no word from GW, or rumours of a Eldar codex coming in the next years

Chances are, GW isn't going to tell us until a few months before the release. I think the Sisters of Battle deserve a codex update more than Eldar right now.

Thanks razor, a very informative post. Whats your opinion on the DH/New Grey Knights? As I read as the Grey Knights were next in line of getting a codex, I wouldn't really want two Imperium armies, so I would either start at Eldar/Tau then move to the Grey Knights if they seem likeable (I already like their color scheme and the sculptures).

Grey Knights are a very iconic model line. From all the rumors, Grey Knights will be a very unique army, possibly having builds that are all psykers. It will probably be, in a pure sense, a codex that has a lot of low model count, elite builds. This would fit in line with the background of always being outnumbered. From all the rumors, it really seems like GW is pushing the envelope with this codex, which might be a good or a bad thing. Going this long between codex releases is kind of unusual, but could (hopefully) result from the extended playtesting that such a codex requires. It usually takes about a year to really tell how effective over the long haul an army will be. I certainly wouldn't rush out and get them (even though I want to) till at least they got their FAQ. This has significant ramifications as any tyranid player can tell you.

I think that your statement above is probably the best bet. Get into the game with one of the three armies I discussed previously. Learn and enjoy the game with one proven army, before taking a leap of faith with a new one, especially one that by all accounts is so experimental. The three older armies have a much deeper secondary market, (ebay, bartertwon) if you need to save money. Grey Knights are being completely resculpted and will have to be bought retail.