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i'm thinking of breaking into fantasy and like the idea of a small and powerful elite army, this is why i'm thinking woc coz they seem to run smaller numbers of elite troops instead of hordes.
however i'm not sure how effective a small elite army will be in fantasy, will i get my ass handed to me every game or will i cope?

i want to make some chaos ogres, but haven't seen anyone using them? does this mean they're not very good or are they too expensive points wise to be worth it, also i want a giant... i want to go for a northern barbarian style of army instead of alligning to a particular chaos god...

any ideas on how that will work out for me or what i should do??

WOC work very well as an elite army. The basic warrior is strong both defensively and offensively. Warriors are probably a better buy than Chaos Ogres, but I don't see using a unit or two as a game ending decision. As Monstrous Infantry, they even have a few advantages that the WoC don't have.

Currently planning my own Warriors army, though there won't be anything human in it....

Oh no...instead, Throgg, and at least two Horde units of Chaos Trolls.

There's just something about the prospect of 18 Vomit Attacks that makes me giggle!

I am on the opposite band wagon. My current fixation is WoC too, but I am going as human as possible.

I think they are one of the better elite armies out there as long as you are willing to give up shooting.

Regarding the giant. For what its worth, this was one of my first purchases after a few cores units and as much as i love the giant i never ever use him. The few games i played with him, he was pretty 'meh' The points work much better toward a hellcannon, imho.

cool, cheers for the advice, i'm happy to go an buy a codex now an start thinking about what to buy thanks guys


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also gotta think of a suitable HQ choice that is awesomely effective and still fits in with the style of the army i'm going for... i like the look of wulfric... i'll wait till i get the codex to decide tho

Giants are best off against other Large Target type stuff, where the quality, rather than the amount of damage plays the most important rule.

I dunno... large targets mean higher str then his T 5 wont matter as much. I charge my giant to whatever doesnt have str 5 +. Rolling the jump and down is the best IMO. that plus thunderstomp is insanely good.

If you want elite fighting force then WoC is the army for you. Only shooting you can take are marauder horsemen with throwing weapons and a hell cannon. You could always take sorcerers and go fire to blast people away.

WoC is not only a elite it save $$ on your wallet. You dont have to buy 100 models which is great imo.

Have fun with chaos! recommend MoN warriors with Halberds. have fun! use lances for knights to convert warriors to halbers

There's a battle report or two in on here (or maybe a link to bragging rights) with WoC armies that are elite Warrior and Hellcannon affairs; you probably want to check them out. 18+ sized units of warriors with shield and MoT or halberds and MoK seem to be the favored builds. All in all, the damage they took and dealt in some of the games was pretty insane.

One thing I learned about warriors from my own army: File the front armor sections just under the fur and at the inner waist until it test fits nicely with the back part. That will save you LOTS of GS work, as there is always a gap otherwise. Oh, and definitely paint the inside of the cloak and the back of the legs before putting them together. In fact, practice on 2-3 before cutting apart and building all the rest, as they are really frustrating models to build and paint if you don't plan ahead a bit. Deceptively so.

Have fun with chaos! recommend MoN warriors with Halberds. have fun! use lances for knights to convert warriors to halbers

Halberds, yes; MoN... it's probably the most useless mark we have. It reduces enemy WS when they attack us, but only models with WS3 or less will be affected, which is Saurus and a select few others that are usually run in horde-mode, and won't give a crap.

Best off going for MoT of MoK; MoT with shields or halberds and MoK with Halberds/GWs/AHWs (halberds are more flexible, the latter two are really more specialised and only used when you need the extra strength from a GW or your strength already ignores enemy armour, and extra attacks from the AHWs are best).

Run them around 15/18/20 strong going 5 or 6 wide and 3 or 4 deep.

Avatar 720 wrote:

Have fun with chaos! recommend MoN warriors with Halberds. have fun! use lances for knights to convert warriors to halbers

Halberds, yes; MoN... it's probably the most useless mark we have. It reduces enemy WS when they attack us, but only models with WS3 or less will be affected, which is Saurus and a select few others that are usually run in horde-mode, and won't give a crap.

Best off going for MoT of MoK; MoT with shields or halberds and MoK with Halberds/GWs/AHWs (halberds are more flexible, the latter two are really more specialised and only used when you need the extra strength from a GW or your strength already ignores enemy armour, and extra attacks from the AHWs are best).

Run them around 15/18/20 strong going 5 or 6 wide and 3 or 4 deep.[/quote/]

MoT should never take halberds. MoN -1 shooting is nice against shooting armies also -1 ws makes a 3+ to 4+ more than you think when enemies roll to hit. It doesn't seem like a huge offensive mark but when you use halberds in combat that -1 ws and -1 penalty for shooting makes urbwarriora survive longer. Warriors get 15 attacks first round of combat atleast. mok you get 20 but you will lose models in shooting and tough WS oponents will hit on 3s increasing chance of wounds.

If you want ani horde unit take MoK wig extra hand weapon. I would sacrifice my mon halberds for an extra attack and ability to get kited

I disagree on the nurgle analysis. The main thing it's for is not so much close combat (although it does ruin the day of empire halberdiers, clanrats, and other similar choices) as for shooting. Chaos warriors cost a lot of points, and every one you lose hurts. Making a few extra handgun, repeater crossbow, or particularly helblaster shots go wide is never a bad thing. I agree with the above that frenzy is more valuable, so if you take a nurgle-marked unit, make sure they bring their trusty banner of rage.

Well it might sound like crap but in my games played my warriors have survived rounds of shooting against HE DE Leadbelchers WE and Empire. 315 is a lot for 15 man unit but they get across the board I will give them banner of rage at higher point games

I think MoT will out perform MoN every time, as you get at best a 1 variance to not get hit with MoN (and sometimes less) while MoT ALWAYS gives a 1 variance to save. At 10 points LESS for MoT as opposed to MoN you really come out ahead. Now, if they hadn't FAQ'd MoN to be -1 to hit in melee, you might have been better off, or if MoT didn't also stack with parry which makes it super great.

All in all though, MoN is too expensive on warriors, and pretty much everything else that isn't casting Nurgle spells (or maybe riding a palanquin).

MoT should never take halberds.

Why? Please back up your claims.

The way I see it, 10 Warriors running 5x2 non-Tzeentch with halberds get:

MoN - 15 Str 5 Attacks and a 4+ AS
MoS - As MoN
MoK - 20 Str 5 Attacks and a 4+ AS

Tzeentch would get:
MoT - 15 Str 5 Attacks, a 4+ AS and a 6+ Ward

I don't see what is inherently wrong with that, you're getting a ward save where most other troops wouldn't with an offensive unit. It's less effective than MoK, but saying that it should never be done is a stretch.

MoN is inferior to MoT in that it costs 10pts more for little effectiveness.

10 Hangunners firing 10 shots at Nurgle Warriors = 0.695555 Dead (rounding 16.6 recurring to 16.7 whenever it appears)

10 Handgunners firing 10 shots at Tzeentch Warriors = 1.1650338 Dead (again, rounding to 16.7)

Since we can't have part casualties, we then round these, so Nurgle takes 1 and Tzeentch takes 1 casualty. Is 10 more points really worth the 0.4694788 fewer casualties? I'd prefer to spend that 10pts on something else to be honest.

Combat works out worse for Nurgle, as only a handful of units are affected by them, the only notable ones being Saurus, Clanrats (although they make up for it in sheer numbers) and Empire Halberdiers, all armies (bar LM until Slann) that can field a reliable counter; Skaven throw numbers at you and Empire pelt you with mortars and magic.

I wouldn't say MoT Warriors should never take Halberds, but its not the best choice. MoT + Shield gives you a 5+ ward which makes them very hard to damage at all and they are still Warriors so should be fine with there 15 S4 attacks. If you want to go choppy then take MoK, tarpit go MoT/MoN but don't mix roles with Warriors.

Marauders on the other hand are much more flexible, you can take a big unit with Great Weapons + MoT for good damage output and some survivability (much better value than Light Armour) or go MoK for maximum choppiness.

I never said they are the best choice, indeed HW/S is the best for Tzeentch, but I wouldn't rule out halberds. They don't get the extra attack of MoK, but you've got the rage banner for that purpose (which I intend to use to great effect, since I run a pure Tzeentch army).