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The concept here is that essentially, Vanguard Veterans suck--they're too pricy for what they do, and they're too specialized to do anything else. This proposed rule aims to change that by modifying the Heroic Intervention rule as follows. Alternatively, it would allow the squad to exchange the Heroic Intervention rule for the Nailed Fist of the Chapter rule.

Heroic Intervention: If a jump pack equipped Vanguard Veteran squad arrives via deep strike, the Vanguard Veterans may either shoot (or run) or assault on the turn they arrive. Should a deep striking Vanguard Veteran squad scatter over impassible terrain or another model, then reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required to avoid the obstacle. If the obstacle was an enemy unit, then the Vanguard Veteran squad must elect to assault that unit when the assault phase arrives--it may not shoot or run.

Nailed Fist of the Chapter: Vanguard Veterans without jump packs count any transport on which they embark as open-topped, meaning that they may embark and disembark from any point, may all fire, regardless of the number of fire points, may assault in the turn they disembark, even if the vehicle moved that turn, and only suffer S3 hits if it explodes, instead of S4. This does not, however, affect rolls on the vehicle damage table. In addition, in any turn in which they disembark from a transport, the squad is Fearless. This means that they can never be pinned by the destruction of their transport.

I say the only thing that needs to be changed is to give them Jump Packs by default.

I absolutely love the idea of Vanguard vets being able to just land on a unit and assault it.

I just can't decide if I think it's balanced.

Ragnar4 wrote:I absolutely love the idea of Vanguard vets being able to just land on a unit and assault it.

I just can't decide if I think it's balanced.

Balance? What is this balance of which you speak? I don't think that I've heard of this term in a context relating to GW before!

Either way you look at it, I would rather get the jump packs for free, otherwise I will just stick with a sternguard veteran squad. IIRC I read in another thread that all of codi have at least one unit that is useful currently.

At least the minis that GW sells that were made for that rule look nice IMHO.

btemple0 wrote:Either way you look at it, I would rather get the jump packs for free, otherwise I will just stick with a sternguard veteran squad. IIRC I read in another thread that all of codi have at least one unit that is useful currently.

At least the minis that GW sells that were made for that rule look nice IMHO.

They would be too good at 20 points... I think a really simple fix would be to downgrade the jet packs to 5 points

Valkyrie wrote:I say the only thing that needs to be changed is to give them Jump Packs by default.

This

MekanobSamael wrote:Heroic Intervention: If a jump pack equipped Vanguard Veteran squad arrives via deep strike, the Vanguard Veterans may either shoot (or run) or assault on the turn they arrive. Should a deep striking Vanguard Veteran squad scatter over impassible terrain or another model, then reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required to avoid the obstacle. If the obstacle was an enemy unit, then the Vanguard Veteran squad must elect to assault that unit when the assault phase arrives--it may not shoot or run.

This is great. I like it alot.

MekanobSamael wrote:Nailed Fist of the Chapter:

I don't like this at all. I'd rather see default jump packs as suggested by other posters.

Iboshi2 wrote:

MekanobSamael wrote:Heroic Intervention: If a jump pack equipped Vanguard Veteran squad arrives via deep strike, the Vanguard Veterans may either shoot (or run) or assault on the turn they arrive. Should a deep striking Vanguard Veteran squad scatter over impassible terrain or another model, then reduce the scatter distance by the minimum required to avoid the obstacle. If the obstacle was an enemy unit, then the Vanguard Veteran squad must elect to assault that unit when the assault phase arrives--it may not shoot or run.

This is great. I like it alot.

MekanobSamael wrote:Nailed Fist of the Chapter:

I don't like this at all. I'd rather see default jump packs as suggested by other posters.

+1 I agree.

MekanobSamael wrote:Nailed Fist of the Chapter:

I just broke a nail...

Anyway, I like the changes to Heroic intervention, but the nailed fist of the chapter rule doesn't really make sense. I mean, firstly they are fitted into a rhino (the deepest secret of the mechanicum... how to put 10 power armoured marines in a rhino) then they can get out of it with such speed and efficiency they can assault while normal marines can't, coupled with being fearless because they left their vehicle? And how on earth do you get 5 to 10 marines firing pistols out of the top hatch?

Your heroic intervention changes are great i think next time i have a game with my bro im going to try this out. The nailed fist rule hmmm maybe not on vangaurd but on sterngaurd would (with a few changes work better)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I admit, the Nailed Fist thing kind of doesn't work so well--it was more to broaden their spectrum of abilities. I'm working on an idea involving broader reintroduction of different veterancy skills, and Armored Assault was going to be one of them, but it's not polished enough for publication yet.