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1. Scenario: 1 block of warriors vs a BSB and another unit of errant knights. Warriors win combat by like 8. Question: A)Does the BSB take the -8 penalty also just like the Knights (attacks targeted this unit)? B) If the BsB fleed can it rally next turn even if he is by himself? C) Does he lose the banner since he is fleing? D) When

2. Scenario: When the giant falls down it says place the template with the feet at the base of the model with head pointing the direction of the scatter dice. Question: A) what happends if a "hit" is rolled? B) Where do exactly place the template on the base, like what side which corner etc.?

3. Scenario: a BsB and a unit of peasants attacking a warrior block. Warrior block deals 13 wounds to the peasants. Only 8 models are removed. The BSB doesnt die in his challanged and stays. question: A) When counting for combat resolution are the 13 wounds caused and failed not all counted only the 8 models removed?

Thanks for your help.

for scenario 3: only non saved wounds and thus casualties removed are counted for combat resolution, any wounds caused in a challenge that don't end in removing a model are also counted as normal.

In scenario 1 are the BSB and Errant Knights together or separate units in the same combat? Combat resolution is determined by side, not by unit for multiple combats(iirc) and so yes the BSB loses by as much as the knights(I may very well be wrong, will look into this more).


I have no clue on the giant as I don't use em and have never come up against one.

BsB was with a unit of knights with GWs i think questing knights either way my warriors killed them but BSB stayed. BC of tied challanges grrr (sorcerer).

Scenario 1a: yes, the entire unit would suffer the minus 8. Even if the bsb wasn't part of the unit but still part of the same combat, he would still suffer the -8.

Scenario 1b: If the bsb broke from combat, he just outright dies (he defends the banner to the death). If he ran because of something else, he would rally as normal (after charges were declared).

Scenario 2a: If you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, you would use the tiny arrow found on the target.

Scenario 2b: I've always placed on the base edge closest to the direction he's falling and haven't gotten into any arguements about it.

Scenario 3a: Only unsaved wounds are counted towards combat res. If 13 wounds were dealt and there were only 8 peasants and the bsb, the 5 remaining wounds would carry over onto the bsb (killing him usually) and removing the unit from the game.

~SC

[quote=Scarecrow456.Scenario 3a: Only unsaved wounds are counted towards combat res. If 13 wounds were dealt and there were only 8 peasants and the bsb, the 5 remaining wounds would carry over onto the bsb (killing him usually) and removing the unit from the game.
...

Except from shooting none of the wounds you cause on the Knight unit will carry over to a character (the BSB), you would have to allocate the attack on him beforehand. If he was in a challenge then you can't even allocate attack on him (aside from the guy who is in the challenge with him obviously).

Just to clarify, as the BSB was on the losing side and in a separate unit (effective a unit by himself as everyone else died) he would have had to make a break test at -8 separately from the remaining unit of Knights as every unit on the losing side has to make a test.

You are correct in saying that if the BSB is fleeing then you can't use his re-rolls etc, the same goes for the general. However as you can decide the order you make attempts to rally you can always rally the general/BSB first at which point everyone else could use the the re-rolls.

rlsquared2 wrote:THe BSB was with a unit of errant knights but the BSB went to a challange warriors did 13 wounds, but only 8 knights to remove the remainder 5 wounds would carry to the bsb even if he is in a challange?

THe only time when CC wounds can carry over to someone in a challenge is if tha someone is the unit champion.

1) Was the bsb PART Of the unit that lost?

If so there is ONE unit in the combat and only ONE test is made, at -8

If there are two units, i.e the BSB is by himself, then there are two tests to be made, both at -8

1B) If the BSB flees, or the unit he is with flees, from combat - he is just dead. Dead, dead, dead

1C) He's dead

2) There is a tiny "arrow" even on the hit side. This is the direction the giant goes.

3) Unless you allocated attacks to the BSB, the BSB CANNOT be hurt in close combat. At all.

For combat res you ONLY count wounds that have been suffered by the unit. So while you dealt 13 unsaved wounds ONLY 8 count for combat res, as only 8 models were able to suffer wounds.

Hover is correct as well - if you dont allocate to a unit champ he can still die if you do enough wounds to wipe the unit out.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1)

3) Unless you allocated attacks to the BSB, the BSB CANNOT be hurt in close combat. At all.

For combat res you ONLY count wounds that have been suffered by the unit. So while you dealt 13 unsaved wounds ONLY 8 count for combat res, as only 8 models were able to suffer wounds.

Hover is correct as well - if you dont allocate to a unit champ he can still die if you do enough wounds to wipe the unit out.

Wounds done to a unit can carryover if there is only a character left. Wounds done to a unit carry over, but wounds done to a character don't. If I throw 5 wounds at a character and he dies to 3, the other two go away. Other then that, characters follow the normal rules for being in a unit. It's on page 99 of the main rulebook.

Nothing on page 99 indicates wounds carry over to a character and they certainly don't. You can only hurt a character if you dedicate attacks to him. He will take a break test based on the amount of casualties the unit took if he loses, etc... but he won't die based on unit overkill.

Scarecrow - please furnish the exact quote that "wounds done to a unit carry over onto a character", as they certainly DO NOT in the current 8th edition rulebook,a nd didnt in 6th or 7th either.

Characters in close combat (not impact hits or other distribute as shooting, which CAN hit the character if the unit is small enough) are entirely IMMUNE to damage unless you allocate attacks to them.

Scarecrow456 wrote:Scenario 1a: yes, the entire unit would suffer the minus 8. Even if the bsb wasn't part of the unit but still part of the same combat, he would still suffer the -8.

Scenario 1b: If the bsb broke from combat, he just outright dies (he defends the banner to the death). If he ran because of something else, he would rally as normal (after charges were declared).

Scenario 2a: If you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, you would use the tiny arrow found on the target.

Scenario 2b: I've always placed on the base edge closest to the direction he's falling and haven't gotten into any arguements about it.

Scenario 3a: Only unsaved wounds are counted towards combat res. If 13 wounds were dealt and there were only 8 peasants and the bsb, the 5 remaining wounds would carry over onto the bsb (killing him usually) and removing the unit from the game.

~SC

I'll agree with everything here except 3a. if the wounds were against the pesents then only pesent models are removed, excess wounds are NOT carried over to the BSB in a challenge.
And you would do well to listen to Nos, his grounding in the rules is supurb.

"it can happen that a model causes more casualties then it has enemies in base contact. The excess casualties are removed from the unit as a whole...". Pg 51

"whilst a character is part of a unit, both he and the unit (including any other characters that have joined the unit) are treated as a single combined unit for all rules purposes"

Now it is possible that the person who taught me was wrong and no one in the local gw store knows any better and if that is the case, I will admit that I'm wrong about this and say that Nos is right. This is what I was taught, but until you can solid proof that I'm wrong, I stand by the way I was taught.

Hawkins wrote:
And you would do well to listen to Nos, his grounding in the rules is supurb.

And you can [Mod Edit - Please read the rules of this site - these types of comments are NOT allowed.]

I don't think that comment is appropriate. You are the one that has come in with a huge misunderstanding about how the rules work. Hawkins was just pointing out that nos usually gets things right - no need for a personal attack.

Personal attacks are against our rules here at DakkaDakka. Please keep the discussion polite.

Excess wounds do not carry over onto the character.

First relevant section of the FAQ
Q: At what point after a unit has been wiped out do any characters remaining count as having left the unit? (p101)
A: As soon as the last model from the unit has been removed, any remaining characters will count as a new unit. Note that this will cause Panic tests to all friendly units within 6"(including the newly formed unit of character(s)) as the unit has been destroyed.

As soon as the last wound hits the peasants, the character is now a "new unit"

Pg. 99 BRB "Close Combat" section
"You need to declare where attacks are being allocated before they are rolled."

If you do not declare attacks on the character, and you wipe out the unit he was in, he is now part of a "new unit." Those excess wounds only hit the unit they were directed at, and the character is not in that unit.

That is the proof I had been looking for, thank you lehm.

I was wrong and I'll correct the others at the gw store next time i'm in.

Scarecrow456 wrote:I was wrong and I'll correct the others at the gw store next time i'm in.

And this kind of willingness to admit you're wrong makes your previous reaction even more baffling

I said I would admit I was wrong if someone provided the proper rule quote to show I was wrong.

HoverBoy wrote:And this kind of willingness to admit you're wrong . . .

That kind of willingness to admit when one is wrong is EXACTLY what we could use more of around here.

Cna't argue with the truth.

Well, with the dust settling, I would like to ask a very closely related question:

The 7th ed. BRB said that, technically, we roll to hit with one attack, then to wound, then attempts to save. One at a time. Not sure if this is in the 8th ed. book.

So, with that in mind: there's a Dragon in combat with 3 Empire Spearmen and 1 Warrior Priest. The Dragon has 6 attacks. Now, he decides to finish off the Spearmen first, so he attacks them. Wouldn't you have to roll each to hit/wound/parry sequence, one at a time, to stay within the rules of the game (and to insure maximum awesomeness from the dragon), since the dragon could potentially kill everyone in the combat, but could also fail to do so?

I'm not sure how clear this is, but I've gone on for long enough.

THe Dragon must decide, before making any attacks, where to allocate attacks. All attacks then occur simultaneously, however you are given allowance to "fast dice roll" where this does not affect the result.

So no, if the dragon decides to attack the spearmen the warrior priest CANNOT be harmed, and vice versa. If the dragon puts e.g 3 attacks on each, it could conceivably kill both units.

Hm. So...if the Dragon first three attacks cause three unsaved wounds on the Spearmen, he then squishes the dead bodies a little bit. Maybe eats one or something.

remember there is no "first 3" attacks - they are all simultaneous; all attacks made at the same I step are.

Well...yes. But my above post is an attempt to translate the rules into a visual scene. In the reality of the game, the attacks occur one after the other, as dragons are limited by both time and space.