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*SPOILERS BE HERE....IF YOU SCROLL DOWN AND BECOME ANGRY BECAUSE OF A SPOILER, LOOK INWARD*

















So, I finally finished Prospero Burns and I'll probably be eviscerated for saying this....but I thought it was pretty damn weak. One of Abnett's worse. I thought the dialogue was trite and lowered the majesty of the Primarchs (Especially the scene where Fulgrim, Constatine and Russ are looking at data slates, musing on the history of the conservatory). The back half of the book felt rushed and scenes seemed injected to explain things....more than enrich the story. I was really let down.


Positives:

--Nikea was explained a bit more
--I did like the way the Wolves viewed themselves (as a legion)
--Interesting take on how a daemonic host had a strong hand behind the scenes


Negatives:

--Dialogue was really weak
--Seemed very rushed near the end, almost like Abnett was just anxious to get it over
--Primarchs were represented poorly




As an aside, "There are no wolves on Fenris" seems to imply that failed aspirants eventually succumb/revert into a wolf. So, blackmanes/Thunderwolves are failed Astartes because there was no native wolf on Fenris before the Rout arrived. This implies Space Wolves ride other failed Space Wolves into battle? Hah.

I have recently read it and i had an idea about the "There are no wolves on Fenris" thing.
Hauser is told there are no wolves on Fenris by a friend but his memories have been messed with.
He goes to Fenris despite being terrified of wolves although he is constantly told, "There are no wolves on Fenris" maybe that is a part of his conditioning that made him go to Fenris randomly.

I have thought that since .... the thousand sons book.

It only makes sense that the "wolves" are actually mutated aspirants.....

Its more disturbing tho; that the Muhreens hunt, kill, and wear the wolves; and use them as attack dogs!

gregor_xenos wrote:I have thought that since .... the thousand sons book.

It only makes sense that the "wolves" are actually mutated aspirants.....

Its more disturbing tho; that the Muhreens hunt, kill, and wear the wolves; and use them as attack dogs!

Heh,yeah. Another thing that drove me nuts about the book was how hell bent Abnett was on making the Wolf/Astartes link. "They lounged around like a pack of wolves...." "They panted quickly like a wolf..." "Leman Russ was panting heavily like an animal..." "He held his head back and opened his mouth, then smelled his breath..." I thought to myself, if he bends him over and starts sniffing his ass, I'm quitting this book.

I have to second a lot of the opinions voiced so far. Primarchs were way too accessible.
The conspiracy seemed a little too forced.
Kaspar's origins and backround... just strange, but not in a good way. Fairly unconvincing, really.
And yeah, Wolfy mcWolfworld is getting pretty lame. Space vikings have turned into space werewolves.

I thought the book as whole was pretty good. I liked the fact that, as with all Abnett's book, he concentrates on a human character to give a realistic view of what Astartes are like.

I also think that this book has painted a MUCH more believable, thought-out and realistic portrayal of a Legion like the Space Wolves, much more than the frankly cartoonish fluff that existed before. The language, names, themes (letherworking, Swedish/Danish/Finnish influences etc) are great, the fact that the Space Wolves are much more confident, and therefore more relaxed in their language towards each other - all these add up to make the Space Wolves ten times more interesting. Much better than the comedy space vikings they were in William King's novels.

I think the important difference about the SW is how accessable their Primarch is - Russ is most pointedly NOT a haughty Lord who insists upon ceremony, unlike pretty much every other Primarch shown, except maybe Alparius.

AgeOfEgos wrote:I thought to myself, if he bends him over and starts sniffing his ass, I'm quitting this book.

Lol.... This actually made me spit coffee!

ArbitorIan wrote:
I think the important difference about the SW is how accessable their Primarch is - Russ is most pointedly NOT a haughty Lord who insists upon ceremony, unlike pretty much every other Primarch shown, except maybe Alparius.

Agreed!

I think that was the point - to show that while highly respected and revered as the head of their legions, Russ and Alpharius did not have, for lack of a better term, worshipers in their forces.

I'm about 90% through the book, and I'm liking it a lot!

AgeOfEgos wrote:
As an aside, "There are no wolves on Fenris" seems to imply that failed aspirants eventually succumb/revert into a wolf. So, blackmanes/Thunderwolves are failed Astartes because there was no native wolf on Fenris before the Rout arrived. This implies Space Wolves ride other failed Space Wolves into battle? Hah.

I am only half through this book , which should be renamed at this stage to "the life of Kaspar Hauser", but I liked your comment.

Can't ever field space wolves now, as

I'll wade in for russ on this one, and agree with his depiction as a more down to earth primarch. Given the nature of his legion, I think it suits him to be "one of the boys" in that sense, but still very much respected as leader of the pack. So to speak.

I've never been a huge sw fan, but I felt this book gave them a nice edge that made them simultaneously approachable, but also quite apart from the rest of the astartes, in a good way I feel. There were obviously some deviations, including the wolves on fenris bit, that might be an adjustment to say the least, especially for those who were invested in the team. Nevertheless I thought it was a worthy addition to the HH series, even if the structure of the book wasn;t quite in the balance I wanted.

I have mixed feelings on this book, I liked some of the ways they described the Space Wolves, and I enjoyed most of how they presented Russ, primarily how he interacted with the First Company Captains of the Blood Angels and the Death Guard along with Valdor.

I did not like how the first half of the book just kept dragging on and on, nor how the actual Battle was rushed and only the last 50 or so pages.

One thing I did find interesting was how they described the "Wyrds" of the Primarchs and the Legions on page 219. I for one would like to know where each of the Legions and their Primarchs would fall.

Horus would obviously be The Heir to the Throne

I would assume Alpharius to be the one to control the Intelligences.

Russ is the Executioner.

Dorn or Perturabo could be the one to bolster the Defenses or Guard the Hearth.

What do you all think?

BrotherStynier wrote:I have mixed feelings on this book, I liked some of the ways they described the Space Wolves, and I enjoyed most of how they presented Russ, primarily how he interacted with the First Company Captains of the Blood Angels and the Death Guard along with Valdor.

I did not like how the first half of the book just kept dragging on and on, nor how the actual Battle was rushed and only the last 50 or so pages.

One thing I did find interesting was how they described the "Wyrds" of the Primarchs and the Legions on page 219. I for one would like to know where each of the Legions and their Primarchs would fall.

Horus would obviously be The Heir to the Throne

I would assume Alpharius to be the one to control the Intelligences.

Russ is the Executioner.

Dorn or Perturabo could be the one to bolster the Defenses or Guard the Hearth.

What do you all think?

The background frequenters will likely roll their eyes at this, as I've said it many times before... ....but too bad!

I think the Primarchs are symbolic expressions of the different part of Big E (amplified and without balance). So...

Angron; Rage
Fulgrim: Aesthetics
Horus: Ambition
Dorn: Stoicism
Sang: Nobility;Purity
Mortarion: Morbidity/death
Alpharius: Cunning
Magnus: Intelligence
Russ: Instinct
etc.

Since they are only one part of Big E's personality and lack balance, they can fall by giving in to their characteristic. Magnus gave in to his intelligence (and greed for more), Angron his rage, Fulgrim aesthetics, Sang died for his nobility/purity.

I'm with AgeOfEgos on his point about the Primarchs all representing a part of the Emperor. This idea is not only mentioned in "Prospero Burns" but is also briefly mentioned in "First Heretic". It makes a certain amount of sense when you think about it but it does seem to lead to some odd places. It implies that the Emperor created beings to represent his negative aspects as well as his positive ones. Angron's nearly psychotic rage and Horus' unbounded ambition are two obvious examples. This is not to say that the Emperor would not have created representations of his darker side, I can't say for sure if he would or wouldn't. However, it seems strange that it shocked him when the representations of his darker side went off the rails and turned on him.

I actually liked the representation of Russ as a the "working man's" Primarch. Valdor calls Russ out on this "acting like a barbarian king" (I'm paraphrasing here). I like the idea that it is a conscious act that Russ puts on.

The excessive wolf references certainly seemed to be forced and didn't add anything of value. Meanwhile, the idea of Space Wolves riding failed aspirants into battle is so absurd that I am not sure how to address it. It certainly seems to fit given the information we have about Fenrisian wolves but the implications are just so ludicrous that I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it.

The final complaint I had about the book was the lack of information about Russ himself. One of my favorite parts about the HH series is that it gives a view into the mind of the primarchs themselves and this was lacking in "Prospero Burns". Overall, I would say that it was a worthy edition to the series but it cannot be counted as one of the best.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:I have mixed feelings on this book, I liked some of the ways they described the Space Wolves, and I enjoyed most of how they presented Russ, primarily how he interacted with the First Company Captains of the Blood Angels and the Death Guard along with Valdor.

I did not like how the first half of the book just kept dragging on and on, nor how the actual Battle was rushed and only the last 50 or so pages.

One thing I did find interesting was how they described the "Wyrds" of the Primarchs and the Legions on page 219. I for one would like to know where each of the Legions and their Primarchs would fall.

Horus would obviously be The Heir to the Throne

I would assume Alpharius to be the one to control the Intelligences.

Russ is the Executioner.

Dorn or Perturabo could be the one to bolster the Defenses or Guard the Hearth.

What do you all think?

The background frequenters will likely roll their eyes at this, as I've said it many times before... ....but too bad!

I think the Primarchs are symbolic expressions of the different part of Big E (amplified and without balance). So...

Angron; Rage
Fulgrim: Aesthetics
Horus: Ambition
Dorn: Stoicism
Sang: Nobility;Purity
Mortarion: Morbidity/death
Alpharius: Cunning
Magnus: Intelligence
Russ: Instinct
etc.

Since they are only one part of Big E's personality and lack balance, they can fall by giving in to their characteristic. Magnus gave in to his intelligence (and greed for more), Angron his rage, Fulgrim aesthetics, Sang died for his nobility/purity.

That wasn't really what I was going for AOE, but thanks I was more interested in what their specific roles in the Imperium. Like Russ and the Wolves being the Executioners.

For a book about canines, there sure were a lot of "wet leopard growls" going on.

Ultimately stand alone this book was great, but as a group to A Thousand Sons it was sort of meh. the portrayal of the space wolves was very well done, and if fleshed out their character a little more but the fact that the attack on prospero was only like 50 page was disappointing

I loved it though!

So I also finished book 15 yesterday.

Personally, I enjoyed the book from the 'skjald' point of view. While I feel the book vastly lacked the insight into Leman Russ' character and his presence in the 40 or so Battle for Prospero chapter pages I like the way the Kasper Hawser events were handled.

Not Abnett's best but a good effort nonetheless.

I'm glad during the Council section that he glossed over the Primarch's appearing and got down to telling the story. This far into the series, personally I don't want to read about the Primarch's 'bathing the room in their brilliance'. I've read about their 'God-like' appearance so many times now that it's getting annoying.

A few negatives:

The cover of the book and synopsis on the rear - Horrendously misleading.
Wet Leopard Growls....uh, what? (Personally I think he took the whole wolf-come-Astartes thing too far).
There should have been FAR more questions over where Horus had suddenly appeared from! (Yes he was actually a warp entity but still...I find it surprising they would have blindly opened fire on Lupercal)
Not enough Space Wolf lore/description/background.
Would have liked a chapter on how Fyth (can't remember spelling) of the Ascomanni got accepted into the ranks.

Pros:
3rd person PoV, for me, I enjoyed it.
Flashbacks, I thought they were quite well timed/placed.
Section on Kasper asking all the questions after 'waking up' in the Fang was great, a good insight into the languages/behaviours etc.

It was no 'First Heretic'/'Fulgrim'/'Flight of the Eisenstein' but it still kept me turning the pages.

Finally, it may just be me but does anyone else think the end of all HH books so far have been squashed into the last 50 or so pages? Most of them I feel are really rushed towards the end, almost as if they have a page limit they can't exceed!

Just as long as another 'Legion' doesn't come out I'll be happy (god that book was dull!)

The bad guys have the best HH books so far.

Shame Dan Abnett didn't focus on the battle more.

Meh

wasnt there enough of it in thousand sons?
i mean what could it have been from the space wolves POV? land, get our asses kicked, primarch kills their primarch, we all leave our scent??

I enjoyed the reading, but I was expecting something different. Most of the book dealt with Kasper and details on his corruption.

I'm curious as to what state he was put into stasis and what reasoning they will have for waking him up.

Aye it was quite chilling acutally when you realised one of the Dreads helpin to defeat the Horus/Warp Entity at the end was Cormak Dod who had come to Kasper in 'the dark place' lamenting his forgotten memory.

Don't fancy being made into a dread tbh!

The "There are no wolves on Fenris" line is a metaphor used to describe the fact that the barbarian/animal side of the wolves is an act, just like Russ himself is said to have the "Barbarian King act".

They use the Wolf side of themselves as an image while infact they are far from the feral beast they appear to be. They even state this themselves in that they use their own image to spread fear to their enemies of what is to come when infact it is just a part of an overall plan in their role of doing the Emperor´s dirty work.

There are no Wolves on Fenris, there are cunning warriors that act like it conciously.

Vet Sgt Ezekiel wrote:The bad guys have the best HH books so far.

Shame Dan Abnett didn't focus on the battle more.

Meh

Agreed. For a book called Prospero burns there wasn't much burning of Prospero... though i liked the bit where they start handing out all the good weapons before the battle.

About half of the book now, I can say I'm getting anxious where it's going.
For one thing, the book is thinner than A thousand Sons so I'm clearly expecting early combat and all out action from page one BUT no. All four first chapters are told from someone's elses point of view and it's not even a SW?!?!?
I'm wondering if the other reviews are true, that the ending was 'hurried' up again? If so, then this is a classic Abnett book. I still think his Titanicus and Gaunt series are the best yet.

I thought the book was rather rubbish personally. Until the last well, 15 pages which changed everything.

EG, I was quite annoyed with the book for a very long time thinking, "he's utterly ruined the tragedy of the 1000 Sons."

I was pleasantly surprised by the ending.

Although, the logic of it all still doesn't make sense. To be honest, there's far too much time travelling going on in the series now!

Why are people throwing their hands up about 'no wolves on Fenris' now? They told us in A Thousand Sons... or did no one else read that?

Sarapham wrote:The "There are no wolves on Fenris" line is a metaphor used to describe the fact that the barbarian/animal side of the wolves is an act, just like Russ himself is said to have the "Barbarian King act".

They use the Wolf side of themselves as an image while infact they are far from the feral beast they appear to be. They even state this themselves in that they use their own image to spread fear to their enemies of what is to come when infact it is just a part of an overall plan in their role of doing the Emperor´s dirty work.

There are no Wolves on Fenris, there are cunning warriors that act like it conciously.

I get what you're saying and I would have agreed with you after "A Thousand Sons" and before I read "Prospero Burns"....but now I can't see it being symbolic. There are several lines in Prospero that directly indicate failed aspirants become wolves. One that immediately springs to mind is when he's saved by a big black wolf, a marine states "That's twice Brom has saved you now". Brom being a failed aspirant mentioned at the start of the novel. I think Abnett was pretty clear on stating failed aspirants = wolves. Which is funny/disconcerting when you include the SW book...

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Sarapham wrote:The "There are no wolves on Fenris" line is a metaphor used to describe the fact that the barbarian/animal side of the wolves is an act, just like Russ himself is said to have the "Barbarian King act".

They use the Wolf side of themselves as an image while infact they are far from the feral beast they appear to be. They even state this themselves in that they use their own image to spread fear to their enemies of what is to come when infact it is just a part of an overall plan in their role of doing the Emperor´s dirty work.

There are no Wolves on Fenris, there are cunning warriors that act like it conciously.

I get what you're saying and I would have agreed with you after "A Thousand Sons" and before I read "Prospero Burns"....but now I can't see it being symbolic. There are several lines in Prospero that directly indicate failed aspirants become wolves. One that immediately springs to mind is when he's saved by a big black wolf, a marine states "That's twice Brom has saved you now". Brom being a failed aspirant mentioned at the start of the novel. I think Abnett was pretty clear on stating failed aspirants = wolves. Which is funny/disconcerting when you include the SW book...

I´m not saying that view is wrong, and infact the two views do not invalidate each other. The Wolf, both from the standpoint as an image as the legion would like to tell it, as well as from the metaphysical sense in that the "Wolves" are really just marines say the same thing but on different planes.

I did notice that in Thousand Sons there are many mentions of the wolves that accompany the Space Wolves, but nowhere in Prospero Burns is it mentioned that they have Fenrisian Wolves in battle with them.

Its almost as if they are hinting that they are a psychic manifestation when the SW go to war.

There are no Wolves on Fenris because they are infact a breed of sheep.

Or what other posters have said

I'm looking forward to this, but then again I have looked forward to every Heresy book, only then being let down.

I've flicked through Prospero Burns and am interested in finding out Fulgrims involvement in the Council of Nikea. From reading Thousand Sons you can tell something is amiss with the Phoenician as one minute he is all chummy chummy with Magnus and then when the Emperor is speaking his decree, his face is one who has just had his butt smacked.