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2011/01/16 21:46:55
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Fixture of Dakka
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While playing in a typical weekly three-game tournament last night, I finally met TFG...or so it seemed.
Maybe he had a bad first two games, I don't know. He insisted that the hills were all dangerous terrain for my IG vehicles but not for his Tau skimmers. I think he did have sensor spines but that ruling on terrain would have made half the table unusable by my mech army. Neither of us were playing for a prize at that point so I just wanted a fun game. He seemed to want a win.
He finally agreed to make the terrain difficult instead of dangerous so I thought we could finally get to the fun but then things got even weirder...
He told me that his Tau skimmers were moving flat out but could still shoot because they had multi-trackers. I pointed out that nothing can shoot when it moves flat out but he insisted. As the game didn't matter to me at that point, I just let it slide.
Then when I was shooting at his skimmers, he said that I needed a "6" to hit them. WTF? They count as obscured (4+ cover save) when they move flat out but my to hit rolls
are unaffected.
I just went ahead and played till turn three was over and then conceded the game. It didn't matter to me and it wasn't any fun at that point. He was way ahead on kill points in an Annihilation game and it was almost 1 AM in the morning.
My only question is whether he was really TFG or was I just tired at that point. Was there some older edition of the rules that may have confused him about skimmers? I skipped 2nd and 3rd editions so I'm not sure why he had such strange ideas.
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The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.
I build IG...lots and lots of IG. |
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2011/01/16 21:50:08
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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JB wrote: He insisted that the hills were all dangerous terrain for my IG vehicles but not for his Tau skimmers. I think he did have sensor spines but that ruling on terrain would have made half the table unusable by my mech army. Neither of us were playing for a prize at that point so I just wanted a fun game.
No, Skimmers always ignore dangerous and difficult cause they can fly.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/01/16 21:51:00
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2011/01/16 21:52:48
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Lord of the Fleet
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Seems like a TFG to me, his rulings erred on the side of TFG-ness rather than "I didn't know"-ness. Like the flat-out nonsense...I two second read through his codex and the rulebook EASILY clears that up.
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Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
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2011/01/16 22:03:05
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Monstrous Master Moulder
Secret lab at the bottom of Lake Superior
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camboyaz wrote:JB wrote: He insisted that the hills were all dangerous terrain for my IG vehicles but not for his Tau skimmers. I think he did have sensor spines but that ruling on terrain would have made half the table unusable by my mech army. Neither of us were playing for a prize at that point so I just wanted a fun game.
No, Skimmers always ignore dangerous and difficult cause they can fly.
That part is true, but multitrackers (on a vehicle) allow it to fire like a fast vehicle (but not move like one). So either he was using a piranha, in which case he could not have shot (flat out = no shooting, no matter what), or he misinterpreted the rules for vehicular multi trackers so that they gave vehicles the "fast" characteristic. Either way, the Tau have no way of negating flat out = no shoot.
The "needing a 6 to hit" should only be in close combat. Either this guy was really confused (unlikely) or he was cheating. The Tau do have a vehicle upgrade that gives the vehicle a 4+ cover save when the shooter is beyond 12", but that should not affect anything else (i.e. maybe he was stacking that 4+ with the 4+ from moving flat out?).
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Commissar NIkev wrote:
This guy......is smart 
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2011/01/16 22:09:16
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Waitwaitwait. He moved Flat Out with one of his skimmers, claimed it has a Multi Tracker, and fired with it? Ignoring the fact that you still cant fire any weapons at flat out speed, only Fast vehicles can even go flat out. There is only one fast vehicle in the Tau codex and it can't take Multi-trackers, because the fast profile defeats the point of actually taking one. It's not the time, it's that guy being a douche. He's obviously making stuff up just to win.
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Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
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2011/01/17 04:06:27
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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You, sir, have found yourself TFG
and *surprise* he plays tau
mine played tau too!
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S'all fun and games until some no life troll master debates all over your space manz & ruins it for you |
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2011/01/17 04:28:52
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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Mukkin'About wrote:You, sir, have found yourself TFG
and *surprise* he plays tau
mine played tau too!
LMFAO I'm still laughing while typing this post, good stuff!
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2011/01/17 04:59:07
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Fixture of Dakka
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camboyaz wrote:JB wrote: He insisted that the hills were all dangerous terrain for my IG vehicles but not for his Tau skimmers. I think he did have sensor spines but that ruling on terrain would have made half the table unusable by my mech army. Neither of us were playing for a prize at that point so I just wanted a fun game.
No, Skimmers always ignore dangerous and difficult cause they can fly.
They don't ignore such terrain when they end their move on it (page 71 of the rulebook in the Moving Skimmers paragraph), which he was doing. However, he had sensor spines (I think) so that would allow him to ignore it with all equipped skimmers. I was just peeved because the terrain was just plain hills with nothing on them. Classifying them as dangerous terrain was a bit "out there".
micahaphone wrote:camboyaz wrote:JB wrote: He insisted that the hills were all dangerous terrain for my IG vehicles but not for his Tau skimmers. I think he did have sensor spines but that ruling on terrain would have made half the table unusable by my mech army. Neither of us were playing for a prize at that point so I just wanted a fun game.
No, Skimmers always ignore dangerous and difficult cause they can fly.
That part is true, but multitrackers (on a vehicle) allow it to fire like a fast vehicle (but not move like one). So either he was using a piranha, in which case he could not have shot (flat out = no shooting, no matter what), or he misinterpreted the rules for vehicular multi trackers so that they gave vehicles the "fast" characteristic. Either way, the Tau have no way of negating flat out = no shoot.
The "needing a 6 to hit" should only be in close combat. Either this guy was really confused (unlikely) or he was cheating. The Tau do have a vehicle upgrade that gives the vehicle a 4+ cover save when the shooter is beyond 12", but that should not affect anything else (i.e. maybe he was stacking that 4+ with the 4+ from moving flat out?).
Great point about the multi-tracker. I didn't notice that it only allows you to FIRE like a fast vehicle, not MOVE like one. Thanks for pointing that out! 
BTW he was using Devilfish and Hammerheads...no Piranhas.
I don't know if he had Disruption Pods but it wouldn't have mattered as I was shooting three veteran melta gunners at him within 6".
sub-zero wrote:Mukkin'About wrote:You, sir, have found yourself TFG
and *surprise* he plays tau
mine played tau too!
LMFAO I'm still laughing while typing this post, good stuff!
I laughed a lot too!
Thanks for the responses, guys. I'm still groggy from the late night but at least I know that he really was bending (breaking?) the rules way out of shape.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/01/17 06:21:22
The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.
I build IG...lots and lots of IG. |
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2011/01/17 05:06:37
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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OOOO I'm gonna get in trouble with this one: I guess those Tau players need every advantage they can get to win, even dishonest ones. HAHAHA You think they would just pick a viable army to win with, next time suggest that he play the "broken angels" or even the newly updated black templars. I hear that their fairly badass now with the storm shield and preferred enemy mischief. I wouldn't know about those strange tactics, i play ultramarines, and everyone knows that we get all the best stuff first. HAHAHA Don't hate, congratulate! 
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2011/01/17 05:15:00
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
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Dont name all Tau players TFG.....this guy just sounded like a royal pain in the A**. If someone protests a rule or thinks their right our local group always looks up the rule....that way there would be no TFG feelings......
Unless there were too many beers consumed then all of us can be TFG.....
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I do not discriminate....all races are equally worthless....
 4500 Fist of the Five Castes
4000 76th Fremont Motor Rifle
 2000 Crimson Suns Chapter |
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2011/01/17 05:15:47
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Monstrous Master Moulder
Secret lab at the bottom of Lake Superior
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HAHAHAHAHA
It's funny, because he's making horrible generalizations about a large group of people, based off of one unscrupulous player! That's like saying that we shouldn't hate on ultramarines, but hating on other armies is a great idea, and is totally funny!
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Commissar NIkev wrote:
This guy......is smart
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2011/01/17 05:20:28
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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hey dudes
Knickers, untwist them
All i said is that MY TFG was tau.
Is there a higher percentage of TFGs that run Tau? I don't know, YMDC
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S'all fun and games until some no life troll master debates all over your space manz & ruins it for you |
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2011/01/17 05:20:32
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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micahaphone wrote:HAHAHAHAHA
It's funny, because he's making horrible generalizations about a large group of people, based off of one unscrupulous player! That's like saying that we shouldn't hate on ultramarines, but hating on other armies is a great idea, and is totally funny!
HMMMMMM, I smell a Tau player, J/K
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2011/01/17 05:21:15
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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sub-zero wrote:i play ultramarines, and everyone knows that we get all the best stuff first.
How's that Storm Raven working out for you?
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Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it.
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2011/01/17 05:24:44
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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MinMax wrote:sub-zero wrote:i play ultramarines, and everyone knows that we get all the best stuff first.
How's that Storm Raven working out for you?
C'mon now you know that were gonna get to use it too, haven't you heard, next month's White Dwarf mag is gonna give it to all space marine armys. HAHAHA
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2011/01/17 05:33:39
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Monstrous Master Moulder
Secret lab at the bottom of Lake Superior
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Hey, Ultramarines, how's it feel to be the TFG of the Imperium?
You know, only joining in on the Horus Heresy AFTER you would have been helpful, then writing a book about and telling all the other legions how they should act, then being so amazing that an entire hive fleet can be destroyed when they funnel into your home system, despite weighing more than the planets in the system? And some people say that they're not overhyped.
And FYI, blue and gold are also the colors of the Cub Scouts, the gakky pre-boy scout organization for little brats ages 6-12.
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Commissar NIkev wrote:
This guy......is smart
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2011/01/17 05:49:18
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Savage Khorne Berserker Biker
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It is the 3rd Millennium. For more than a hundred months Games Workshop has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Nottingham. It is the foremost of wargames by the will of the neckbeards, and master of a million tabletops by the might of their inexhaustible wallets. It is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with business strategies from the early Industrial Revolution Age. It is the Carrion Lord of the wargaming scene for whom a thousand veteran players are sacrificed every day, so that it may never truly die. Yet even in its deathless state, GW continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty battleforce starter-sets cross the online-store-infested miasma of the internet, the only route between distant countries, their way lit by a draconian retail trade-agreement, the legal manifestation of the GW's will. Vast armies of lawyers give battle in GW's name on uncounted websites. Greatest amongst its soldiers are the Guardians of the IP, the Legal Team, bio-engineered super-donkey-caves. Their comrades in arms are legion: the writing team and countless untested rulebooks, the ever vigilant redshirts, and the writers of White Dwarf, to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from other games, their own incompetence, Based Chinaman - and worse. To support Games Workshop in such times is to spend untold billions. It is to support the cruelest and most dickish company imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of sales discounts and Warhammer Fantasy Battle, for so much has been dropped, never to be re-published again. Forget the promise of cheaper digital content and caring about the fanbase, for in the GW HQ there is only profit-seeking, Space Marines and Sigmarines. There is no fun amongst the hobby shops, only an eternity of raging and spending, and the laughter of former employees who left GW to join better companies. |
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2011/01/17 05:54:35
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Monstrous Master Moulder
Secret lab at the bottom of Lake Superior
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Not a Boy Scout?
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Commissar NIkev wrote:
This guy......is smart
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2011/01/17 06:18:21
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Calculating Commissar
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Lets calm down and remember rule #1. My TFG plays chaos marines, so not all TFG play the smae army.
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2011/01/17 06:26:46
Subject: Re:TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Dogface 76 wrote:Dont name all Tau players TFG.....this guy just sounded like a royal pain in the A**. If someone protests a rule or thinks their right our local group always looks up the rule....that way there would be no TFG feelings......
Unless there were too many beers consumed then all of us can be TFG.....
I agree. I've played many great Tau players who brought beautiful armies, rock-hard lists, AND great rules knowledge and sportsmanship to the table.
I think my experience last night was just an anomaly. I'll make sure " TFG" has the right information about skimmers next time (and I'll also make sure the tournament organizers understand the rules for skimmers), but I'll do it in a nice way. The guy might just be really confused. There are lots of new players at this particular store and a lot of players returning to the WH40K scene after years away. I want to see the pool of players grow so a nasty "high noon" showdown isn't helpful to the overall environment.
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The secret to painting a really big army is to keep at it. You can't reach your destination if you never take any steps.
I build IG...lots and lots of IG. |
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2011/01/17 06:55:57
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Veteran ORC
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Happygrunt wrote:Lets calm down and remember rule #1. My TFG plays chaos marines, so not all TFG play the smae army.
You sure he was TFG and not just possessed?
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I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. |
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2011/01/17 07:01:00
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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micahaphone wrote:Not a Boy Scout?
My wife has declared Boy Scout Uniforms to be the least sexy piece of clothing in the world. Not that this has anything to do with the conversation at hand, I just thought I'd share.
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I'm just a simple guy who is trying to make Daemon Princes look like Pokémon. - The Baron
That's my ACTUAL Necron Army list you turd. +27 scarabs. Stop hatin'! -Dash of Pepper |
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2011/01/17 07:11:13
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Calculating Commissar
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Slarg232 wrote:Happygrunt wrote:Lets calm down and remember rule #1. My TFG plays chaos marines, so not all TFG play the smae army.
You sure he was TFG and not just possessed?
Either one, a bolt pistol to the face will fix that problem.
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2011/01/17 11:06:51
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Stormin' Stompa
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Lonecoon wrote:micahaphone wrote:Not a Boy Scout?
My wife has declared Boy Scout Uniforms to be the least sexy piece of clothing in the world. Not that this has anything to do with the conversation at hand, I just thought I'd share.
Mine declared that t-shirt and tennis socks....and nothing else...was the least sexy attire.
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"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
 18.000  3.500  8.200  3.300  2.400  3.100  5.500  2.500  3.200  3.000
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2011/01/17 11:38:36
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Happygrunt wrote:Slarg232 wrote:Happygrunt wrote:Lets calm down and remember rule #1. My TFG plays chaos marines, so not all TFG play the smae army.
You sure he was TFG and not just possessed?
Either one, a bolt pistol to the face will fix that problem.
Purifying in Holy Fire is more fitting I think.
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 Buy Imperial War Bonds
Killing daemons, heretics, witches, worse witches, mindless robots, traitors, hungry bugs, green skins and space communists needs your monetary support. |
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2011/01/17 14:09:23
Subject: TFG or Just an Honest Mistake?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
The Faye
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The Tourny people who organised this should reallly have sorted out what the rules for terrain are.
That way there's no arguing about it later.
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We love what we love. Reason does not enter into it. In many ways, unwise love is the truest love. Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.
Chaos Knights: 2000 PTS
Thousand Sons: 2000 PTS - In Progress
Tyranids: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Mechanicus: 2000 PTS
Adeptus Custodes: 2000 PTS - In Progress |
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Blue Crosses
IOM Tau Cult
104th Tank Regiment 
KHADOR 