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Hi, i was thinking of putting a command squad on bikes to go with the captain on one, ofcourse i was thinking of getting close and personal straight into combat as thats what they are best at but is this the best idea?
If so how should i equip them? i was thinking of giving them all Storm Sheilds for the 3++ , but what about lightning claws etc

anyone got any ideas?

I see two ways that you can use a C:SM command squad on bikes

Plasma Gun Doom
4 plasma guns, with FNP added to them. This squad runs you 265 points, and can deliver an good amount of plamsa in a short burst (8 shots total). At 66 points a model, this is expensive -- as there are no bullet catchers in this squad to absorb casualties early -- but it can deliver a lot of plasma shots in a very tight space.

Assault Bikers
By the time you trick them out with SS/weapons, they run you about 70 points a pop. Thats a huge amount of points for something that can die as easily as they can. FNP is great, but they can be plasma'ed down very easily. Given the new updates to BT/DA, we can expect to see more Null Zone's in game, lowering the SS saves from 3++ to 55%++. At 70 points a pop, every failed save is painful

If your playing in a fun, casual game, then trick out a squad and have a blast modeling it up -- it will be beautiful.

Labmouse's Plasma Gun Doom is my current favorite method of running Bikes as well. Having FnP is a great cushion for "Gets Hot!" rolls, and being able to move 12" and still fire up to 24" is great.

Well, each bike in Plasma Gun Doom runs you 66 points. A normal biker with a PG runs you 40. If you double the survivability of the Plasma Gun Doom, then your biker wounds are 33 points each (virtually)

That makes them a better deal, until you include the number of weapons that do not give a FNP save. With the BT/DA changes, we can expect to see more plasma, which tears up 66 point bikes.

I field normal bike squads with 2 PG, 1 MM, 1 PF, and 2 bullet catchers for 255 points. After playing a bike army for 1.5 years, Ive found that gives better results.

Of course, thats all opinion -- and what works for one person may not work for another

The CC squad should be done in pairs if you do it. In the right army it is as bad as nob bikers used to be.

There also isn't anything stopping you from running them as CC AND shooting. As bikers are relentless, and can hold SS, melta/plasma, and still have single LCs. Like: 4 vets with single LC, SS, Melta, apothecary: 365 points.

Add in a biker captain with relic blade or fist, and there isn't much that this squad can't handle in shooting or assault. Sure if you do it in pairs it comes to more than 1000 points... but assuming you are playing 1750+ you still have room for the rest of the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:I see two ways that you can use a C:SM command squad on bikes

Plasma Gun Doom
4 plasma guns, with FNP added to them. This squad runs you 265 points, and can deliver an good amount of plamsa in a short burst (8 shots total). At 66 points a model, this is expensive -- as there are no bullet catchers in this squad to absorb casualties early -- but it can deliver a lot of plasma shots in a very tight space.

Assault Bikers
By the time you trick them out with SS/weapons, they run you about 70 points a pop. Thats a huge amount of points for something that can die as easily as they can. FNP is great, but they can be plasma'ed down very easily. Given the new updates to BT/DA, we can expect to see more Null Zone's in game, lowering the SS saves from 3++ to 55%++. At 70 points a pop, every failed save is painful

If your playing in a fun, casual game, then trick out a squad and have a blast modeling it up -- it will be beautiful.

So by less people taking vanilla marines (jumping ship/going back to DA BT) we are going to see more nullzone (which was already almost automatic in serious C:SM builds)? I don't follow the logic. Even more viable marine chapters as far as I figure = less null zone. Or makes vanilla marines the "meta" choice (not the top list, but beats the top list).

notabot187 wrote:So by less people taking vanilla marines (jumping ship/going back to DA BT) we are going to see more nullzone (which was already almost automatic in serious C:SM builds)? I don't follow the logic. Even more viable marine chapters as far as I figure = less null zone. Or makes vanilla marines the "meta" choice (not the top list, but beats the top list).

I saw many 'serious' C:SM builds that did not include Null Zone in the pre-2k point bracket. I am saying that you will start to see Null Zone in nearly every C:SM list now that you play now, even at 1500 point values.

That is why the SS are less valuable, as there will be more counters out there than there are today.

labmouse42 wrote:

notabot187 wrote:So by less people taking vanilla marines (jumping ship/going back to DA BT) we are going to see more nullzone (which was already almost automatic in serious C:SM builds)? I don't follow the logic. Even more viable marine chapters as far as I figure = less null zone. Or makes vanilla marines the "meta" choice (not the top list, but beats the top list).

I saw many 'serious' C:SM builds that did not include Null Zone in the pre-2k point bracket. I am saying that you will start to see Null Zone in nearly every C:SM list now that you play now, even at 1500 point values.

That is why the SS are less valuable, as there will be more counters out there than there are today.

Ah, well, in that case you may be right. I just have had a hard time believing that any HQ other than a librarian or biker captain is a serious one. It is probably a bit narrow of me since I don't respect beatstick characters, and don't think as highly of Vulcan or Pedro lists as some people do. A Melta and flamer list is already really good, you don't need to spend more points to make it even better. Sternguard aren't bad, more than a little expensive (a kitted out squad costs way more than even GKs per model), but i wouldn't take a character to make them scoring, and pedros halo just makes units that are meant for shooting better at CC (and unit that are already good at CC into overkill units). Then there is the fact that I prefer combat tactics over chapter ones.

Hmmm, this gives me a lot to think about, originally the whole idea of putting them on bikes was to get into combat a lot quicker, but plasma guns might be the way to go.

Out of curiosity does anyone use Plasma gun doom? how effective is it?

how easy do toughness 5 bikes get shot apart? are they worth there extra points?

Blue_Cypher wrote:Hmmm, this gives me a lot to think about, originally the whole idea of putting them on bikes was to get into combat a lot quicker, but plasma guns might be the way to go.

Out of curiosity does anyone use Plasma gun doom? how effective is it?

how easy do toughness 5 bikes get shot apart? are they worth there extra points?

Well, against small arms they are pretty survivable, with a T5, 3+, then FNP. Against plasma and better... well you get nothing and are wounded on 2s. If you pay for storm shields, it can save 2/3 of you guys, but it adds up in price.

4 plasma guns that can move 12", rapid fire, and then assault if needed is incredibly useful. 8 STR 7, AP2 shots can do an incredible amount of damage to many squads. With that speed, you can catch MEQ out of cover more often than you would expect. Those shots can tear open AV 10 like its glass, and the speed makes it easy to line up side/rear shots.

With your HQ in the squad, he can use his relic blade to finish up any squads that are left over after you plasma'ed them to ribbons.

T5 is tougher than people think. STR 3 weapons wound on 6s, you get a 3+ save, and you get FNP after that. Since you can turbo boost to get 3+ cover save, it makes it easy to get close to ML long fang squads, and then incinerate/assault them afterwords.

Leave the storm shields at home. For the cost, you could already have a LR. You don't need to make them even more expensive than they already are.

As labmouse42 said, those are the two best load-outs, at least IMO.

Plasma bikers can stay at 24" and move and shoot and assault in a pinch.

Assault bikers hit like a brick gak, but they die to massed fire.

I use both and they are both really fun for casual gaming but both are too big a points sink for a tournament.