Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been trying to hybridize an IG list for 1500 points. I'm worried that 1500 just isn't enough points to do what I'm after. Here's my second attempt.

CCS 4x Plasma, Plasma Pistol: 120
CCS 4x Plasma, Plasma Pistol: 120

Melta Stormtroopers in a Chimera: 160
Melta Stormtroopers in a Chimera: 160

PCS 4x Flamers in a Chimera: 105
-Power Blob (Commissar, 3x PW) w/ Eviscerator Priest: 225

PCS 4x Flamers in a Chimera: 105
-Power Blob (Commissar, 3x PW) w/ Eviscerator Priest: 225

Vendetta w/ HB sponsons: 140
Vendetta w/ HB sponsons: 140

The CCSs go in the Vendettas. The Chimeras can serve as a mobile wall for the blobs to hang out behind for cover, or optionally send the Troopers out to nuke a vehicle. The Vendettas and CCS would hang back with/around the blobs and advance slowly, providing fire support. When the time was right, they'd hop over the blobs and disgorge the CCS if there were heavy infantry that would tie up the blobs too long.

Maybe this is just a crazy pipe dream, and won't work until 2000+ points values, but let me know what Dakka thinks.

Not sure if it's a help, but i'd put the CCS' in the Chimeras and keep the Vendettas empty.
you loose alot if they go down. this way your're forcing your opponent to split fire between the Chimera and Vendies.
then DS the Stormies.

I can get behind that, but that's 110 points I don't have. Unless you mean put the PCSs in the Vendettas instead. I could understand that. Plus the plasma firepower would be available sooner. . . . I like it!

You wouldn't need any more points. just use the 2 Chimeras from the 2 ST squads.
and then have the Stormies DS instead of ride. same number of vehicles, just musical chairs!
then your vendettas would be empty. if they survive until late in the game you could always throw
a sqd. in and contest/capture an objective. mine usually don't.

I can see that, but I really like the first turn melta potential of Stormtroopers. If they choose Scouts and are in a Chimera, they have a 32" melta threat range. (12" scouts, 12" move, 2" disembark, 6" melta)

You have *another* good point, though. If I don't get first turn, they'll probably deepstrike. In that case, I can have the PCS hide behind the ST's Chimeras and hop in on turn 1, leaving the Vendettas empty.

so the second blob has both srg.'s with PW's and an evispriest with it, but no commisar?...if this is the case I say that is a real weak point...not stubborn...no re-roll...runs too many bodies off of the table for this army which is already light on boots...otherwise excellent build...good job...and good luck...

I only added the parenthetical explanation in the first entry. In my list, a power blob by definition includes a Commissar and 3x Power Weapons, which is why the points values are the same on both.

do what alarmingrick says, if you deepstrike the stormies that gives you effectively instant melta range...you just appear at the arse of the enemy tank...unless its a landraider you have almosta a guarunteed pen hit, and maybe 2 if your lucky, deepstriking stormies is a suicide squad though, but it will buy your other vehicles a turn while your opponent decides to vaporize the new threat...i use them as scare tactics and a destraction, they just happen to also be able to take out a tank that usually costs more than the squad

Agree on dropping the chims for the stormies and relying on their drop rules.

Not a great fan of plasma pistol. Keep the plasma guns but save the points on the pistols. They can be used for ...

Second infantry squad needs the commissar.

ruminator wrote:Agree on dropping the chims for the stormies and relying on their drop rules.

Not a great fan of plasma pistol. Keep the plasma guns but save the points on the pistols. They can be used for ...

Second infantry squad needs the commissar.

I can apparently never say 32" melta threat range on turn 1 often enough. Taking out a Landraider or other heavy vehicle on turn 1 (it's happened a couple of time so far in other lists) is well worth 110 points of Chimeras.

Plus, just because I take a Chimera for them doesn't mean they can't Deepstrike.

Both blobs have a Commissar.

A Commissar is 35 points, and Plasma Pistols are 10 each, so that change would be 15 points short. I usually don't run Plasma Pistols, but had the 20 points left. Really loading up on the CCS seemed like a good move. Only other options were Chimera upgrades, really.

I thought about removing the Chimeras a little more, and considered what they could buy instead. If I dropped the Troopers' Chimeras and the Plasma Pistols, I could add a Hellhound. I'm hesitant to do this for a couple reasons. I think with three AV 12 vehicles on the ground (and two in the air), that I'm losing AV saturation, and might be going below the critical line. Also, a Hellhound's main targets is horde. But then, that's the blobs' target, as well. And I already have two units of four flamers. I kinda think I'm stocked up on anti-horde.

Also, I just noticed that two Chimeras = a Rough Rider squad w/ a Melta Bomb. Even more food for thought, because I've always wanted to use them. . .

My thoughts on this list is drop the priests in both blobs. You don't need them because you aren't running pure foot list. Yes, priests with evisarators, own vehicles in combat, but the beauty of a hybrid list is that you have other options for doing that, your vendettas in particular. It'll save you 120 points for something else.

I'd really suggest putting the CCSs in chimeras, just because they are more vulnerable than the blobs. I know that if you were to deep strike the stomries, you could stick your CCSs in their chimeras, but it's not the same as them just having one.

Drop the HB sonsons on the Vendettas, you really only should be shooting at oppnents' heavy infantry and vehicles with it. Besides, you'll almost never get both HBs against a squad at the same time.

Competitive list, dunno if eviscerator priests are really worth it.

One concern is the stormtroopers - I can see using them as deep strikers, but why take them in chimeras? Veterans in chimeras can be 5 points cheaper with 3 meltaguns, and are scoring. I would either swap them for veterans or take away the chimeras and buy another unit. I know your current set-up gives you some options, but if you deepstrike, well 2 empty chimeras ain't the best use of points. And if you deploy from chimeras, you'll know you could have taken veterans instead.

ElCheezus wrote:

ruminator wrote:Agree on dropping the chims for the stormies and relying on their drop rules.

Not a great fan of plasma pistol. Keep the plasma guns but save the points on the pistols. They can be used for ...

Second infantry squad needs the commissar.

I can apparently never say 32" melta threat range on turn 1 often enough. Taking out a Landraider or other heavy vehicle on turn 1 (it's happened a couple of time so far in other lists) is well worth 110 points of Chimeras.

Plus, just because I take a Chimera for them doesn't mean they can't Deepstrike.

Both blobs have a Commissar.

A Commissar is 35 points, and Plasma Pistols are 10 each, so that change would be 15 points short. I usually don't run Plasma Pistols, but had the 20 points left. Really loading up on the CCS seemed like a good move. Only other options were Chimera upgrades, really.

I thought about removing the Chimeras a little more, and considered what they could buy instead. If I dropped the Troopers' Chimeras and the Plasma Pistols, I could add a Hellhound. I'm hesitant to do this for a couple reasons. I think with three AV 12 vehicles on the ground (and two in the air), that I'm losing AV saturation, and might be going below the critical line. Also, a Hellhound's main targets is horde. But then, that's the blobs' target, as well. And I already have two units of four flamers. I kinda think I'm stocked up on anti-horde.

Also, I just noticed that two Chimeras = a Rough Rider squad w/ a Melta Bomb. Even more food for thought, because I've always wanted to use them. . .

The commissar was added later, so at least you agreed on that one. Okay, so the points saved on plasma pistols don't pay for him but they are at least a move towards - drop an eviscerator or two and you're there.

I have no problem with the charge range of meltas on turn one. My concern is that I might not want to always shoot at the closest target and later in the game I may be backing away from say assualt troops, dreads etc and the plasma means I can shoot and still be out of charge range.

Single hellhound I've never been a fan of. If they get into shooting range they tend ot only get one shot off and then die so it needs to be good.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:Competitive list, dunno if eviscerator priests are really worth it.

One concern is the stormtroopers - I can see using them as deep strikers, but why take them in chimeras? Veterans in chimeras can be 5 points cheaper with 3 meltaguns, and are scoring. I would either swap them for veterans or take away the chimeras and buy another unit. I know your current set-up gives you some options, but if you deepstrike, well 2 empty chimeras ain't the best use of points. And if you deploy from chimeras, you'll know you could have taken veterans instead.

The amazing thing about Stormtroopers is their flexibility. If you only deepstrike them, you miss out on a lot. Veterans can have a different role, so the comparison is pretty weak. When Stormtroopers start in a Chimera, they can have Scouts. When your meltas start an extra 12" closer, they can hit the high value targets before they do their job. Transports that get destroyed midfield or in your deployment zone have already done their job. Vets can't offer the same opportunity. Same goes for when you outflank the Troopers. Vets can't do that without Harker. If neither of those options are advantageous, then you can still deepstrike. If you don't take a Chimera for the Stormtroopers, you basically limit their options to deepstriking.

In my list, if I deepstrike the Troopers, then the PCS will take their spot instead of riding in the Vendettas.

All that said, I'm not opposed to deepstriking the Troopers 90% of the time, if there's something worth spending those 110 points on that makes up for it. Like I mentioned, 10 Rough Riders and a MeltaBomb are 110 points. Only problem is a) I'm not sure that makes up for the loss of Stomtrooper flexibility and b) I don't have any Rough Riders made yet.

ruminator wrote:The commissar was added later, so at least you agreed on that one. Okay, so the points saved on plasma pistols don't pay for him but they are at least a move towards - drop an eviscerator or two and you're there.

I have no problem with the charge range of meltas on turn one. My concern is that I might not want to always shoot at the closest target and later in the game I may be backing away from say assualt troops, dreads etc and the plasma means I can shoot and still be out of charge range.

Single hellhound I've never been a fan of. If they get into shooting range they tend ot only get one shot off and then die so it needs to be good.

The commissar has always been there, which is why the two power blobs cost the same. I only left out the parenthetical explanation on the second unit because I thought it redundant. I know better now, and edited the original post to make it clearer. Yes, I agree that not taking a Commissar would be a bad idea.

You comment about not always wanting to shoot at the closest target seems to assume that I'll always rush in, even if it's not a good idea. Again, Troopers are about options and not being forced into one mode. Also, you've suggested cutting Chimeras a couple times, but I'm not sure what you're encouraging me to use the points for, except a Commissar. I disagree with your take on Hellhounds in general, but I still don't think they belong in this list.

darkdm wrote:I'd really suggest putting the CCSs in chimeras, just because they are more vulnerable than the blobs. I know that if you were to deep strike the stomries, you could stick your CCSs in their chimeras, but it's not the same as them just having one.

Drop the HB sonsons on the Vendettas, you really only should be shooting at oppnents' heavy infantry and vehicles with it. Besides, you'll almost never get both HBs against a squad at the same time.

CCS in chimeras: agreed. I haven't updated the original list, but my own copy has that change made. It's now the CCS and Stormtroopers in Chimeras, and the PCS in the Vendettas.

HB Sponsons are awesome. I've actually gotten a lot of mileage out of them. Unless you're playing a super-meched list, you'll want to shoot at infantry some time. In the field, I've had numerous occasions to fire my Vendettas at either threatening infantry units, or infantry on objectives, and the HBs have always been worth it. It's a lot easier to get both sponsons on the same target when you're at LasCannon range than you might think. That said, I take the sponsons off occasionally if the points are needed elsewhere.

darkdm wrote:My thoughts on this list is drop the priests in both blobs. You don't need them because you aren't running pure foot list. Yes, priests with evisarators, own vehicles in combat, but the beauty of a hybrid list is that you have other options for doing that, your vendettas in particular. It'll save you 120 points for something else.

Speaking of reasons for taking off sponsons, if I follow your advice and cut the priests, the HB sponsons, as well as the Plasma Pistols and a flamer, I can afford a LR Demolisher. This is probably the most tempting change for this list. I have a couple concerns, though. With only two power blobs, I can't afford to throw away bodies, like a full blob list might. If I toss a blob into assault, I honestly want them to come out again with the potential to take on another unit. With priests, the rerolls give me a bit of punch on the assault, making that more likely. You're probably right in that they could lose the Eviscerators without impacting things too much.

On the other hand, putting a LR Demolisher in the front of the list adds a lot of punch and scary factor. It would definitely be welcome. But if I lose the priests, does the infantry aspect of the hybrid list turn into just a couple units of guys running around and flailing their arms? If the blobs lose too much potency, I may as well just play a full mech list. Any foot guard players that could weigh in on the power/durability of only two blobs without priests?

I like the list. The only thing I would change would be drop the HB's, both priests and both plasma pistols. With those points I would get a vet squad with 3 meltas in a chimera.

ElCheezus wrote:
HB Sponsons are awesome. I've actually gotten a lot of mileage out of them. Unless you're playing a super-meched list, you'll want to shoot at infantry some time. In the field, I've had numerous occasions to fire my Vendettas at either threatening infantry units, or infantry on objectives, and the HBs have always been worth it. It's a lot easier to get both sponsons on the same target when you're at LasCannon range than you might think. That said, I take the sponsons off occasionally if the points are needed elsewhere.

I don't think they're worth the points, but you've got different results than I have.

ElCheezus wrote:
Speaking of reasons for taking off sponsons, if I follow your advice and cut the priests, the HB sponsons, as well as the Plasma Pistols and a flamer, I can afford a LR Demolisher. This is probably the most tempting change for this list. I have a couple concerns, though. With only two power blobs, I can't afford to throw away bodies, like a full blob list might. If I toss a blob into assault, I honestly want them to come out again with the potential to take on another unit. With priests, the rerolls give me a bit of punch on the assault, making that more likely. You're probably right in that they could lose the Eviscerators without impacting things too much.

On the other hand, putting a LR Demolisher in the front of the list adds a lot of punch and scary factor. It would definitely be welcome. But if I lose the priests, does the infantry aspect of the hybrid list turn into just a couple units of guys running around and flailing their arms? If the blobs lose too much potency, I may as well just play a full mech list. Any foot guard players that could weigh in on the power/durability of only two blobs without priests?

Looking at your first post, it looks like you have 2 thirty man blobs, and I can say I've decent success with just 1 of them in a similar list without ever running a priest. The advantage of a 30 man blob over a 20 man blob is that you do get more of the attacks that count, and more bodies to burn protecting them. With the 30 man blobs, sheer volume of power weapon and normal attacks is what carries the blob, and they don't neccesarily need the rerolls like a smaller blob. Yes, the priest still helps, but he's not as neccessary.

I'm a big fan of demolishers, and think it'd help a lot, but you only have two troop choices (4 scoring units) and I'd much rather see those points towards a demolisher go to veterans in a chimera. For 10 points less than the demolisher, you've got veterans in a chimera with 3 melta guns. It's a toss up, but if you feel you have enough scoring units, then go with the demolisher (assuming you make the points for it).

They're 21-man blobs, actually. I think 3x 21-man is superior to 2x 31-man groups, due to flexibility of movement and a couple extra attacks due to an extra Commissar. Of course, if you buy 2x 31, then you don't have to buy and equip the extra Commissar.

Your comment did kick my mind into gear, actually. LR Demolishers cost 165. Know what else costs 165? Another power blob, that's what.

Consideration for a revised list:

CCS 4x Plasma, Chimera: 165
CCS 4x Plasma, Chimera: 165

Melta Stormtroopers in a Chimera: 160
Melta Stormtroopers in a Chimera: 160

PCS 4x Flamers: 50
-Power Blob (Commissar, 3x PW): 165
-Power Blob (Commissar, 3x PW): 165

PCS 3x Flamers: 45
-Power Blob (Commissar, 3x PW): 165

Vendetta: 130
Vendetta: 130

I like this list. But then again, I like every every list I make for at least a day before I think of yet another change. Theoretically, I could take another flamer out and buy a Plasma Vet squad in another Chimera. But as before, I think it's the footbound aspect of the list that needs buffing up instead of the mech part.

i still think it would be more beneficial to have the 2 PCS's in chimeras and ds the stormies...that way you have scoring units that can get to an objective a lot faster than on foot if need be...the only effective way to tweak the list is to run it at least 3 times before making changes

jordanis wrote:i still think it would be more beneficial to have the 2 PCS's in chimeras and ds the stormies...that way you have scoring units that can get to an objective a lot faster than on foot if need be...the only effective way to tweak the list is to run it at least 3 times before making changes

The PCS riding in the Vendettas isn't fast enough? Also, I still have the option of DSing the Troopers if I want, and the PCS can still hitch a ride in their Chimeras when that happens. The current assignment of dedicated transports is the most flexible.

ElCheezus wrote:
The PCS riding in the Vendettas isn't fast enough? Also, I still have the option of DSing the Troopers if I want, and the PCS can still hitch a ride in their Chimeras when that happens. The current assignment of dedicated transports is the most flexible.

It's not that Vendettas aren't fast enough, it's just a matter of play style. Honestly, I would run the CCSs in the Vendettas, and run your PCSs in chimeras. The Chimera's fire points allow for consistant flamer fun, where the Vendetta lacks fire points. Since your CCS has the plasma, their survivability and number of shots revolves a lot less around what they're in, so it's not as big of a deal to drop them out a Vendetta where you need them. Plus, the 12" range is much more forgiving for shots after a grave chute insertation than flamers are.

That being said, I really like the look of this list and think it'd hold it's own quite well.

with the current list, switching ur pcs to the chimera's frees the stormies to deep strike if you go second, or if you go first ride in the vemdettas. vendettas scout move pluse ability to drop their squad even moving all out allows for a first turn stormie plop down almost anywhere on the board. using the air born assault rule ensure the stormies land close, you can pop two tanks/transports on turn 1. then ur opponant will have 2 stormie units and 2 av 12 vehicles to deal with, typically right where the anti tank cant easily reach.

ive had success doing this with melta vets. worst case ur opponant is stalled a full turn while they deal with the threat, but typically it requires more than one turn. I personally enjoy using valks with rocket pods instead of vedendettas, as the rocket pods count as defensive weapons and can add even more mayhem to turn one.