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Interesting tournanment, first 3 rounds were at 1500 points, last two rounds are 2000 points (must be from same codex). I am playing marines, first list at 1500 was:

Shrike
10 TH SS Terminators
10 Marines, Melta gun, MB, ML Rhino
10 Marines, Melta Gun, MM, Combi Melta, Drop Pod
6 scouts, 5 sniper rifles, 1 ML
8 Assault marines, Power Fist
5 Devastators, 4 ML

Okay, so enough looking at the past...there are 4 people inthe finals, 2 guard, one is a wild card (could be tyranids, but that game isn't set yet so assume unknown)

I have played both of the guard players in the past, one likes infantry, with some tank suport...other normally spams chimerias, 2 vendettas and plas melt squads in chimaras, along with 2 of the support tanks (the ones that shoot d3 str 10 ap 4 missiles eeach turn - not griffin tanks, but forgot the name)-------

---HOWEVER, there is a good chance that he will change up to a multi infantry blob list - basically, the blob is a full platoon..i.e. 50 guardsmen, including 5 officers with power weapons, 1 commisar (giving stubborn) with PW or PF, will have melta suppot for anti tanks. usually will run 2 of these...supported by rough riders, which are also nasty on the charge...

don't understimate the blobs, as he will run 2 (if he does) and causing that many wounds by the time he locks you into combat is tough... and he will have 15 PW attacks or so...so besides his normal 50 - 25 hits, 8 wounds, 2-3 dead marine, there will be 2-3dead marines from power weaposn...basically, not tough to lose a squad every two combat seqences...and there is other supprot coming form guns, etc so likely whatever the blob hits will be softened up...effectiveness will remain until officers and commisar take wounds...they are not independent characters so it will be tough

thus, the army below is focused on AV12 (in case of chimera wall; possibly some leaman russ tanks) and blobs of infantry...so, here we go...


Army exactly 2000

Vulkan - 190
- Army gets t/l melta and flamers, and TH are MC

Stearn guard - 325
- 5 extra marines
- 4 combi meltas
- 4 combi flamers
- Drop Pod

Dreadnought -150
- Heavy Flamer, Multi Melta
- drop Poad

Iron Clad - 180
- Melta Gun
- Drop Pod

Tactical Sqaud - 220
- 10 marines
- melta gun, multi melta
- combi flamer (sgt)
- drop pod

Tactical Squad - 210
- 10 marines
- Missile Launcher, Flamer, Melta Bomb
- Rhino

Scouts - 100
- 5 scouts
- Melta Bomb
- Missile Launcher (just in case)
- ccw and bp

Scouts - 100
- 5 scouts
- Missile Launcher
- cammo cloaks
- snipers

Landspeder - 70
- heavy flamer
- multi melta

Landspeeder - 70
- heavy flamer
- multi melta

Devastators squad - 150
- 5 marines
- 4 ML

Devastators squad - 150
- 5 marines
- 4 ML

Whirlwind - 85


Vulkan
40 marines (5 squads)
10 scouts (2 squads)
2 dreadnoughts
4 drop pods
1 rhino
1 Whirlwind
2 land speeders

KP - 18/21 (wow, 1500 point army has 7/9)


1st turn - either both dreadnoughts or 1 dread and starnguard will drop in...whenever stearnguard drop in, will combat squad...vulkan will go with...meltas will target key tank threats, flamers after any infantry

troop drop pod will come in as support

scouts with snipers will anchor my objective, rhino will go after other objectives as needed

scouts with ccw and combi melta will outflank - idea is to go after any tanks in back lines providing suppor...or come in late game and grab objective, they havfe a ML to provide suppor if needed.

Land speeders provide close support...devs provide support


after that strategy goes away and it becomes a fight.... marines should be able to handle guard well enough, although i feel the army is missing a close combat element...


Comments and thoughts welcome...

I think its a good list but from past exp 10 tac marines dont do so well in cc against blobs loaded with power weps
sternguard fair alittle better from more base attacks but cc is your weak point in that list

you can rhino a vandguard vet squad for 275 with vulkan

with a PF and 4 Lc all with storm sheilds, cost some coin I know but its nice to get 19 power wep attacks into a IG blob

storm sheild are so you can survive till the next round of combat, basicly just to lock the blob for another turn if needed

Charge the Ironclad into a blob squad and laugh until the cows come home. He will fail a leadership eventually and you will sweep and kill the whole squad. "I'm sorry you have a str 6 powerfist in there? Oh that sucks, I'm armor 13."

Also, Tellion could really help your sniper squad kill that pesky commisar.

And I've never seen devs used in a Vulkan list (I play a hybrid pod list with 2 Ironclads with melta/hf) but I would think you would want to milk the most out of his twinlinked goodness. Possibly with MM/HF speeders or MM attack bikes.

If your going to invest that much, why not just get a 5 man terminator assault squad for 200 points? 2+/3+ over a 3+/3+, I'd go w/ terminators anyday and Vulkan makes their THs master crafted. I like the idea of Vulkan running w/ the sternguard, any blob getting shot by them has no chance w/ sternguards special issue ammunition and Vulkan's heavy flamer gauntlet. I'd suggest dropping the ironclad, and his drop pod and try to squeeze in a 5 man squad of TH/SS terminators and give 1 of the drop pods a locator beacon so they don't scatter. This way you still get your 2 drop pods in for drop pod assault and you still have another drop pod plus a hammator squad coming from reserves. I'd drop the CC scout squad just because of their low WS BS, won't be really useful in my opinion. Maybe just put more scouts w/ snipers and camo cloaks. Pretty solid list though man.

Maybe go master of the forge, increase cover for a scout squad and then fill your boots with dreadnaughts. if you can get them into CC ASAP against a power blob so they can't shoot their tanks/artillery at you then you're good to go ...

thanks for all the comments - reason for dropping the terminators is that they are 5 guys and there are so many attacks, there are enough small attacks that they will fail and die....

i was thinking the same re: the ironclad and that is my hope, so long as he doesn't melta him too quickly...risk though

Devies are great in any army - even though it doesn't benefit from the vulkan rule, the range and versatility are useful

- again, thanks all for the comments so far -

Mech IG? Na man, im borrowing Luke's nids (hmm Elliot's Chaos).

With the quantity of DP's, both Sun and I would probably reserve most of the army and counter.

Walkers and Lash aren't my blobs friends, sufficient melta/lascan should cover the dreads I think with orders, if not its a long combat. Little chance of Ld failure but it can happen (Ld 9 reroll is 1/36 I believe). It would probably just tarpit for the game. Some of the IS may have Krak grenades which may work on the rear of the dread once surrounded with careful placing.

A lot of reliable melta in the list with an increase in flamers that make my blobs cry, should make for interesting delpoyment and subsequent cat and mouse games, bring it.

The ability to tailor to certain codexes is interesting, my list will wait until the 4th player is determined, i'll playtest a few variants until then.

Hopefully with 4 people he does semi final knock out (best of 3), we may not even meet.

Craig,

Will email you too...you can't hit back of dread's in combat yeah? walkers would actually be meant to tarpit - of course now you have seen my list...hehe...luke saw it too.

reserve would actually be a good thing...only two pods would come down, if reserved everything, then I would just bring two in to anchor objective or protect other objective...

in any case, should be fun

Yeah walkers are always hit on the front regardless of damage results in cc. That would be one hell of a tarpit.

This is getting really interesting. I have now had the opportunity to get a feel for what each of you is running and all I can say is that it looks likes there are gonna be some nasty matchups. Really tough call on who could take the win. Let me know when you have games planned, will be coming down to watch.

Why take vulkan?

You are only using about half your army to take advantage of his abilities.

AC/LC preds are better than dev squads and are cheaper.

Scouts in a vulkan list? What?

I think I would switch Vulkan to a Libby and drop the ML off of the Scout Squad...it seems lke a waste of points to me. That will give you a few points to play around with...dunno what to do with them though.

Just an opinion, but not every unit MUST benefit from the Vulkan special rule...Missile launcers are great and very versitile, i.e., a 48" range, very useful on such a large table, effective against both tanks and infantry)...Melta is better against just tanks at close range, but there needs to be some balance...

Scouts - 1 unit is cheap objective holder...sorry, tac squads under 10 men are not good, and a 10 man squad is 170 minimum... of course there is an argument to drop both scouts and take a squad, but...

...the second scout squad can outflank, with its combi melta melt bomb, will hit any tanks or fire support in the enemies back line...The missile launcher in the squad is literally "just in case" if i come in on a bad side or something or just want to sit on an objective they have something to shoot.

Re: dreads vs. devs...interesting and havn't really thought of it - however i do think dreads can get stunned easily, thus losing a round of shooting...manticores are STR 10 AP 4 - not good for vehicls, but infantry stand up well against it.

I will play test the Vulkan or Librarian option...an extra 90 points or so would be intersting...

I'd stick with the Shrike list and add another 10 TH/SS termies if you have the models.

That puts you at 1900.

Drop one tac squad to a scout squad sniper squad with cloaks and a h.weapon.

Then take 2 a.cannon/l.cannon preds.

That gives you:

Shrike
10 Haminators
10 Haminators
Sniper scouts x 5
Sniper Scouts x 5
Tac squad in Pod: Melta, C.Melta, M.Melta
A.Cannon/L.Cannon Pred
A.Cannon/L.Cannon Pred
Dev Squad x 5: 4 m.launchers
A.Squad x 8: Fist and with spare points add in a flamer or two.

Well I think you should have some spare points, I'm tired and don't feel like checking.

Anyway, that list is pretty brutal. 20 haminators will crush most anything in combat, plus they are fleeting and one unit of the infiltrates.

You have two objective campers in the scouts, and one mobile objective grabber/transport popper in the tac squad.

The heavy support adds enough fire power to open transports and keep your boys covered till they get into assault range, at which point you win.

Good luck with the finals! Let us know how it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and as for tac squads under 10 men not being good? Try a 5 man unit in a lazorback. 165 points of mobile, anti-tank, scoring goodness. One of the best options for tac squads and cheaper than what you run with your squads now.

I find the h.bolter on sniper scouts works better as it compliments what they already want to shoot at. don't rely on them to crack tanks, use other units for that role.

I agree with you though that not ever unit must take advantage of Vulkan's rule. A lot of people get stuck on that when adding some ranged AT would be better.

But anyway, do what you like. I just think you have a much better core list with the 1500 Shrike army. Expand on that and you will crush most people.

Heh

I call a bluff. Knowing that 2 players out of 3 players will see this list before they need to decide their list for submission....

Giving that the Shrike list has performed well for you, I imagine it will be an expansion of this while being rebuilt and this is just for mind games.

I'm going with ratlings, penal legion and horses. 3 Deathrike launchers.

Double bluff?

Yes, Shrike would be a good list to run too....

Reecius' list looks pretty solid by the way. If you have the points I would take Telion. Great for sniping pesky commissars.

@ Reecius -

Thanks for all the feedback - very useful, especially since i do in fact have that many haminators...

Cheers

No worries dude, good luck!

mray01 wrote:Just an opinion, but not every unit MUST benefit from the Vulkan special rule...Missile launcers are great and very versitile, i.e., a 48" range, very useful on such a large table, effective against both tanks and infantry)...Melta is better against just tanks at close range, but there needs to be some balance...

Correct. However, this list is not even close to the 'balance' necessary to run a vulkan list.

mray01 wrote:Scouts - 1 unit is cheap objective holder...sorry, tac squads under 10 men are not good, and a 10 man squad is 170 minimum... of course there is an argument to drop both scouts and take a squad, but...

...the second scout squad can outflank, with its combi melta melt bomb, will hit any tanks or fire support in the enemies back line...The missile launcher in the squad is literally "just in case" if i come in on a bad side or something or just want to sit on an objective they have something to shoot.

Not the best use of scouts. Period. You would be better of taking another squad of tacticals.

mray01 wrote:Re: dreads vs. devs...interesting and havn't really thought of it - however i do think dreads can get stunned easily, thus losing a round of shooting...manticores are STR 10 AP 4 - not good for vehicls, but infantry stand up well against it.

Predators with AC/LC are much better than dev squads. Don't know how you got dreads out of that.

mray01 wrote:I will play test the Vulkan or Librarian option...an extra 90 points or so would be intersting...

With your current list, I would not take vulkan.

Imweasel,

sorry, misread dread for pred...my bad...thanks for the comments