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Does anyone run 3 in a squadron? the only time i think i could see me doing it would be for 2000+ point games.
it just seems like it has a large footprint for 3. not to mention most of my opponents tend to ignore 2 of them until they've
paid for themselves.

2 is the Sweet-spot.

For 150 points you gain a free 30 points worth of Extra Armor(until 1 is destroyed) and you can engage in Smoke-shenanigans(something you cannot do with 3). if you are will to spend an extra 20 points you can give 1 of them Cammo-netting and enjoy a 3+ cover save in the 2 turns you pop smoke(alternating 1 smoking, then the other in those 2 turns)

Turn 1: maneuver 6" if required, Fire all 8 T-L Autocannon shots.
Turn 2: Remain Stationary, pop smoke on 1 Hydra, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the other hydra, gain 3+ cover save from opponents firing.
Turn 3: Remain Stationary, pop smoke on 1 Hydra, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the other hydra, gain 3+ cover save from opponents firing.
Turn 4: return to turn 1, likely lose 1 of your hydras to Opponents firing.
Turn 5: maneuver 6" if required, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the remaining hydra, likely lose your remaining hydra to Opponents firing.

Just a heads up, if you move the Hydras you only get 4 shots from the pair rather than 8. The Hydra sports a *pair* of autocannons, not a single Heavy 4 autocannon so obviously if you move you can only fire one autocannon per Hydra in the squadron.

Other than that K. Kel has it right. Any tank that has the option to, and player that is willing to, squadron should do so in pairs.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Just a heads up, if you move the Hydras you only get 4 shots from the pair rather than 8. The Hydra sports a *pair* of autocannons, not a single Heavy 4 autocannon so obviously if you move you can only fire one autocannon per Hydra in the squadron.

Other than that K. Kel has it right. Any tank that has the option to, and player that is willing to, squadron should do so in pairs.

L. Wrex

Danggit; I was thinking of the Exterminator AC; not the Hydra. Wrex is absolutely correct.

I advocate 2 max as well. 3 tends to end up being overkill much more often than two, and with three you have the added danger of an exceptionally well rolled enemy shooting volley spilling results on to three different vehicles.

I claim a cover save for the entire pair just by parking another chimera in front of one of the two. It blocks the heavy bolter and so one of my hydra pairs always takes a heavy flamer instead. If you ran three of them then you'd need two chimeras to provide that permanent cover save.

I will say that a third hydra may be an acceptable way to spend an extra 75 points at the end of list building. But two of them has that nice price point of 150, just slightly more expensive than my vendettas, and around the same price as my veterans in chimeras and my 6 strong psyker squads. Its nice to not have any obvious targets in the list.

DakkaDakka wrote:

It really depends on what the rest of your list looks like, firstly. Secondly, as you can only target one thing at a time, you've got to ask yourself if the third one is going to be necessary.

If your primary targets are skimmers, then it's probably not, but if you're also using them against a lot of MCs and hordes, then why not?

Che-Vito wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:2 is the Sweet-spot.

For 150 points you gain a free 30 points worth of Extra Armor(until 1 is destroyed) and you can engage in Smoke-shenanigans(something you cannot do with 3). if you are will to spend an extra 20 points you can give 1 of them Cammo-netting and enjoy a 3+ cover save in the 2 turns you pop smoke(alternating 1 smoking, then the other in those 2 turns)

Turn 1: maneuver 6" if required, Fire all 8 T-L Autocannon shots.
Turn 2: Remain Stationary, pop smoke on 1 Hydra, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the other hydra, gain 3+ cover save from opponents firing.
Turn 3: Remain Stationary, pop smoke on 1 Hydra, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the other hydra, gain 3+ cover save from opponents firing.
Turn 4: return to turn 1, likely lose 1 of your hydras to Opponents firing.
Turn 5: maneuver 6" if required, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the remaining hydra, likely lose your remaining hydra to Opponents firing.

You have it all wrong though.
"The Squadron may purchase Camo Nets for x points per model"

RAW, the entire squadron must purchase it or not...the cost of the upgrade is dictated by the number of models in the Squadron.

I really don't think 40 points is too much for 2 turns of guaranteed 3+ cover saves; plus you can get the same 3+ in turns that you do not pop smoke so long as you do not move and are obscured(which could even begin on 1st turn). the Hydra is a vehicle you do not want to move with anyways so why not stick camo netting on it?

I'd have to agree with Ailaros... Depends on the role you intend to use them for... I always kick in for the Heavy Stubber (I like the old M-2's), so my squadron of 2 sitting still would kick out 20 shots (30 for the 3)... But mine are mostly for weight of fire to control hordes/MC's or just plain overkill to force lots of dice rolling on Marines... But 3 gets into the expensive and hard to keep covered/alive...

2 Hydras is the most I would run in a squadron. I am not a fan of squadrons to begin with because of how easy they blow and if you get assaulted it sucks.

DakkaDakka wrote:

For a hydra is a +1 cover save really worth 25% of the vehicle's cost? Camo nets are far too expensive on such cheap vehicles, you would be better off getting (nearly) another infantry squad with the points. Even for artillery is +1 cover really that good? I think it is one of those upgrades that seems good but is just too many points to be justified.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Yes but an extra vehicle is far better than a few upgraded vehicles. That is why you don't give everything enclosed crew compartments too. The amount of time that cover save is actually useful is really small.

Trickstick wrote:Yes but an extra vehicle is far better than a few upgraded vehicles. That is why you don't give everything enclosed crew compartments too. The amount of time that cover save is actually useful is really small.

I think it's more about the ratio of survivability to fire output. If your opponent blow all three hydras away, then what good are they? None. If they get to little shots to be significant, same deal.

Che-vito: I didn't miss your point, I just forgot to acknowledge it(and for that I am sorry). I will Acknowledge it now: you are correct they are all or nothing. I really just double-checked the points cost and the wording for the Camo-net's rule, not it's purchace options when i was writing my original post.

As far as your later posts: for that extra points/model you are likely to get more than just 1 more turn's worth of shooting out of the Vehicles that are also likely to be standing still every turn anyways.

In fact the only vehicles i would not put cammo-nets on is most Leman russ variants, Chimeras, Hellhound variants, and Sentinels(either type). This is because all of the above are likely to be moving in most turns(Some russes would not, but those would possibly get the nets).

I feel as with most, 2 is the sweet spot.
and i don't think it's worth it for the Camo netting on them, imho.

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Turn 1: maneuver 6" if required, Fire all 8 T-L Autocannon shots.
Turn 5: maneuver 6" if required, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the remaining hydra, likely lose your remaining hydra to Opponents firing.

You may want to recheck your codex each hydra is equipped with 2 Twin-linked Hydra Autocannons - thus when moving six can only fire two shots but also means that a weapon destroyed roll only takes out half your firepower.

Oh and to answer the OP I've used everything from 1-3 in a squadron and find that as everyone has said 2 is the sweet spot, 3 is overkill in most cases.

I advocate three in a squadron, I figure either go big or go Tau

Yes, two in squad is also the way I run it. When theyre three already, they become a priority target and thats not what you would want, though against a horde enemy I'd wish for the third hydra to be there

40 points for camo netting is over halfway there to another hydra. It could also upgrade 4 infantry squads to carry an ac, and if its a blob with a vox and a sucessful bring it down that's 8tl ac shots, the same as a pair of hydras. Staring down a bunch of infantry ac and hydras is not fun for rhinos and razorbacks.

The Strange Dude wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Turn 1: maneuver 6" if required, Fire all 8 T-L Autocannon shots.
Turn 5: maneuver 6" if required, Fire 4 T-L AC shots from the remaining hydra, likely lose your remaining hydra to Opponents firing.

You may want to recheck your codex each hydra is equipped with 2 Twin-linked Hydra Autocannons - thus when moving six can only fire two shots but also means that a weapon destroyed roll only takes out half your firepower.

You may want to read beyond my first post to my second; it explains why/how I made the mistake; and I corrected it.