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How to get a load of twin-linked melta and flamers into enemy and able to use them?
Drop Pods.

Eek i hear you cry. but hear me out.

5 drop pods and a terminator squad means that 3 melta squads arrive first turn, followed by 2 flamer squads and a terminator squad

HQ

Vulkan He'stan
190

ELITES

Terminator Squad (9 man)
Master Crafted TH/SS
360


TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Power Fist
Teleport Homer
DT: Drop Pod w/ locator beacon
265

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Melta Bombs
Power Fist
DT: Drop Pod
245

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Melta Gun
Melta Bombs
Power Fist
DT: Drop Pod
245

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Power Sword
DT: Drop Pod
220

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Power Sword
DT: Drop Pod
220

Drop the Deathwinds and switch Terminators for Assault Terminators with thunderhammers; master crafted hammers rule.

why drop the deathwinds?

assault terminators I can understand....

ok let's see...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
edited original list

Drop Pods land cannot fire so turn wasted of firing of deathwind...

An interesting concept. I would like to see how this works out. Seems solid, however a very squishy list.

Drop Pod Dreadnoughts with Melta! Either a Ven Dread with a Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer, and Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon or a Ironclad with Chainfist and melta. Almost guanteed to pop a tank the turn it lands, and if it's a transport there's usually a really good chance to get the squad hiding inside next turn. Even better if that squad comes out pinned.

The tacs are nice, why such a large squad of TH&SS terminators? If you put them in a pod then you can get some of them on turn 1. Reserves is usually a pretty sure thing, but being a demons player I've had my Bloodthirster not show up till turn 5 before, so I'd take the smaller squads of 5 and put them in pods.

That many troops at 1750pts is really overkill. You can get away with 2-3 at this points level. Dreads in pods work very well.

Vulkan-190pts
MOTF-100pts

10x TH/SS Terminators- 400pts

Dreadnought, MM, HF- drop pod, locater beacon- 165pts
Dreadnought, MM, HF- drop pod- 150pts

10x Marheens, MM, Melta, Combi-melta, drop pod- 220pts
10x Marheens, MM, Melta, Combi-melta, drop pod- 220pts

Dreadnought, MM, HF- drop pod- 150pts
Dreadnought, MM, HF- drop pod- 150pts


With the Termies at 10 they can combat squad. Not sure about the cost of the locater beacons

eagleboy7259 wrote:The tacs are nice, why such a large squad of TH&SS terminators? If you put them in a pod then you can get some of them on turn 1. Reserves is usually a pretty sure thing, but being a demons player I've had my Bloodthirster not show up till turn 5 before, so I'd take the smaller squads of 5 and put them in pods.

You can't put models in terminator armor in drop pods. Large squad of Master-Crafted TH/SS terminators are very durable and instant kills almost everything it touches. Smaller squads means less elite choices he can take. He'd have to get rid of another dread if he wants 2 5 man squads.

Cnevets wrote:

eagleboy7259 wrote:The tacs are nice, why such a large squad of TH&SS terminators? If you put them in a pod then you can get some of them on turn 1. Reserves is usually a pretty sure thing, but being a demons player I've had my Bloodthirster not show up till turn 5 before, so I'd take the smaller squads of 5 and put them in pods.

You can't put models in terminator armor in drop pods. Large squad of Master-Crafted TH/SS terminators are very durable and instant kills almost everything it touches. Smaller squads means less elite choices he can take. He'd have to get rid of another dread if he wants 2 5 man squads.

Yes you may put Terminators in drop pods. The only restriction they have is no Rhinos/razorbacks. The only way they can ride in one is if a unit takes one as a deidcated transport (example a Tactical squad) and doesnt use it.

The best way is to bump the squad up to 10, then you can combat squad them into 2 five-man squads.

Cnevets wrote:

eagleboy7259 wrote:The tacs are nice, why such a large squad of TH&SS terminators? If you put them in a pod then you can get some of them on turn 1. Reserves is usually a pretty sure thing, but being a demons player I've had my Bloodthirster not show up till turn 5 before, so I'd take the smaller squads of 5 and put them in pods.

You can't put models in terminator armor in drop pods. Large squad of Master-Crafted TH/SS terminators are very durable and instant kills almost everything it touches. Smaller squads means less elite choices he can take. He'd have to get rid of another dread if he wants 2 5 man squads.

I never said anything about them being durable or not, they can be 10 different kinds of wonderful but it doesn't matter if they don't make to to the table till late in the game. You have to figure that if a terminator squad shows up on turn 4 or later they are usually a lost cause. With only a turn left, I'll just drive / walk away from you. You can't shoot me, and its not like you're not fleet...

Sorry, but terminators may not choose drop pods. They can ride in them, but units of terminators have no option to take a drop pod. You cannot start the game in a transport dedicated to another unit, and in order to embark in a drop pod you need to be in reserve and embarked inside of it. This you can't do because you're not allowed to begin the game inside of it.

As for the list, drop 3 tactical squads and get some dreads, regular and Ironclad. The regular take MM/SB and the Ironclads get 2xHF. This way you can pick what you need turn 1 and have the rest come down for support later.

Also I advise against the chainfist on the Ironclad, you lose an attack in CC for having 2 different special CCW and the seismic hammer is already gnarly enough for taking out vehicles.

Terminators deep strike....

I've never seen anyone use Drop Pods w/ Terminators in it except DA, BT, and SW. I could be wrong but I don't think you can take the dedicated transport of another unit. Wouldn't it be an non-dedicated transport then?

Right, forgot about the dedicated transport rules. Terminator characters can still ride in drop pods though

different tack:

Vulkan He'stan
190

Librarian
Null Zone & Avenger
100

ELITES

Sternguard
x 5 Combi-Melta
Melta Bombs
Drop Pod w/ Locator Beacon
200

Sternguard
x 5 Combi-Melta
Melta Bombs
Drop Pod
190

Ironclad Dreadnought
2 HK Missiles
Heavy Flamer
DT: Drop Pod
200


TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Melta Bombs
175

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Flamer
Melta Bombs
175

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider Crusader
Multi-melta
260

Land Raider Crusader
Multi-melta
260

The first list was too troop heavy, there was very little actual killing power.

The latest list is..... weird. Why sterns in land raiders??

And the single dread w/ pod is always a BAD BAD idea. Since when has dropping down 2 KP's into your opponents lap without backup been a good idea. Sorry for sounding picky, but its something I see a lot of people put up, and its really not too good. If your only pod is a single dread dropping down, he's bound to eat all of your opponents melta and die.

Jabbdo wrote:The first list was too troop heavy, there was very little actual killing power.

The latest list is..... weird. Why sterns in land raiders??

And the single dread w/ pod is always a BAD BAD idea. Since when has dropping down 2 KP's into your opponents lap without backup been a good idea. Sorry for sounding picky, but its something I see a lot of people put up, and its really not too good. If your only pod is a single dread dropping down, he's bound to eat all of your opponents melta and die.

The Tacs go in LRC, the sterns in pods. Why do people continue to use Crusaders? Is there something I'm missing about twin-linked bolters? Redeemers seem much better if you don't want a godhammer.

I think I liked the first list a little better, with the exception that you have a few too many Troop choices. With Vulkan in the list, you want to try to take as much advantage of all of his Chapter Tactic abilities.

Sternguard aren't bad (in fact they're great), but you only need one unit of them. Bring back a squad of Terminators with TH/SS. The Dreadnought isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I would avoid using just one if you could. And if you do insist on using one, then stick to the regular Dreadnought, and put him in cover to start the game if you can. 105 points for a vehicle and mobile TL Multimelta isn't bad, but you can probably do better.

2 Land Raiders is definitely excessive here, especially when you didn't have any Terminators listed. Keep one for the Terminator squad, and drop the other.

On the Tact Squads (as well as any Sgt that has them), I would take a Combi-Flamer/Melta, and drop the Melta Bombs. I honestly liked how you outfitted your Sgt's in the first list, but here in the second one, there's not a lot they can contribute just the way they are.

Lastly, if you can get the Librarian in Terminator Armor with a Storm Shield, you'll increase his odds of surviving much more. They have no Invul Save to start, but with the TA and SS, they're on par even with Vulkan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

haizelhoff wrote:Why do people continue to use Crusaders? Is there something I'm missing about twin-linked bolters? Redeemers seem much better if you don't want a godhammer.

QFT.

My bad, had some serious fartos de la brain Ignore everything I've said.

But yeah, especially if you're gonna hang back (which you hopefully will if you're putting the tacs in the LR's) why not godhammers? They can actually do something at range.

haizelhoff wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:The first list was too troop heavy, there was very little actual killing power.

The latest list is..... weird. Why sterns in land raiders??

And the single dread w/ pod is always a BAD BAD idea. Since when has dropping down 2 KP's into your opponents lap without backup been a good idea. Sorry for sounding picky, but its something I see a lot of people put up, and its really not too good. If your only pod is a single dread dropping down, he's bound to eat all of your opponents melta and die.

The Tacs go in LRC, the sterns in pods. Why do people continue to use Crusaders? Is there something I'm missing about twin-linked bolters? Redeemers seem much better if you don't want a godhammer.

Crusaders are, IMHO, the best Land Raiders of the three. Yes there are going to be those times when your Redeemer will roll up and roast a poorly grouped squad of marines. But assuming that your opponent isn't asleep at the wheel they have their squads spread out a bit. The Redeemer should catch on average four to five models, and that is at around the seven inch range. You may get lucky once again and be able to nail two squads in one turn, shooting the other side with the machine spirit. Now, the LRC's sponsons have a range of 24 inches, not the mighty AP 3 of the Redeemer but you will be taking more shots at the enemy. Also the bolters count as defensive weapons, so it can move six inches and fire all of its weapons. That's both sponsons, the assault cannon AND the Machine Spirit fires the multimelta. Plus squads melt away when you are within 12 inches and rapid fire those bolters. And lets not forget the Land Raider's best job...transport. It can stack in more terminator goodness

That's not to say the Redeemer is a chump. But don't get overexcited by the AP3 flamers.

haizelhoff wrote:The Tacs go in LRC, the sterns in pods. Why do people continue to use Crusaders? Is there something I'm missing about twin-linked bolters? Redeemers seem much better if you don't want a godhammer.

Maybe people like paying more points for the LR?

Seriously, the hurricane bolters may be defensive weapons, but I've seen them only kill 1 or 2 orks in my entire time playing against them.

On the other hand, scarcely a game goes by without my Redeemer flaming the hell out of at least 1 unit.

The only excuse I can see for the crusader is if you just have to get 16 models dropped on someones' front door.

a lot of hate for the crusaders....

reason I like the crusader:

Hurricane bolters actually kill quite a lot more than people think. A good dice roll will kill 3 or 4 low toughness opponents. Now orks are T5, so yeah that's a bummer, but that's what assault cannon is for!

POTMS means you can move 12", fire multi-melta at transport, disembark troops and have them assault the survivors.

Crusader has more range than redeemer. At 24" you can fire everything at a target while redeemer has to wait unit 9 INCHES (!!) away from target to unleash flamestorms

And lastly yes if I was going for terminators I'd use TH/SS with them and get 8 in each raider. but that would leave my troops in drop pods dying very quickly.

The thing about this list is the troops are very well protected, and able to get across the table to a position where they assault, while the sternguard are the best way to get melta on to the enemy vehicles as quickly as possible.

Corennus wrote:Hurricane bolters actually kill quite a lot more than people think. A good dice roll will kill 3 or 4 low toughness opponents.

It sounds great on paper. 12 twin-linked bolter shots means that ~11 will hit. Out of the 11 shots, ~5.5 will wound, and 1-2 marines will fail their armor save. In comparison, a well placed flamer shot can wound 5 MEQ with no armor save and no cover save.

Corennus wrote:POTMS means you can move 12", fire multi-melta at transport, disembark troops and have them assault the survivors.

The redeemer also has a MM.

Corennus wrote:Crusader has more range than redeemer. At 24" you can fire everything at a target while redeemer has to wait unit 9 INCHES (!!) away from target to unleash flamestorms

The Redeemer also has a MM and AC. The only difference is you swap the hurricane bolters for flamers, and you lose capacity.

Corennus wrote:The thing about this list is the troops are very well protected.

With the increase of ML spam, LCs have become a lot more tough.

well then I have this list for people to much on since at 1750 land raiders take up a lot of points:

HQ
Vulkan He’stan
190

Librarian w/ terminator armour & storm shield
Null Zone & Gate of Infinity
Epistolary
190

ELITES

Terminator Assault Squad (8 man)
X 8 TH/SS
320


TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
PowerFist
Teleoport Homer
DT: Drop Pod w/ locator beacon & deathwind launcher
295

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Drop Pod w/ deathwind launcher
270

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
Powerfist
DT: Drop Pod w/ deathwind launcher
270

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder
Multi-Melta
Heavy Flamer
70

Landspeeder
Multi-Melta
Heavy Flamer
70