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Hey, I have a dark elf army and I've already two sorceresses, one dreadlord on dragon with some magic weapons, 10 corsaires, two units of warriors(10 and 16), one assasin, five dark riders, five cold one knights and ten executioners. My brother has a skaven army with lots of normal skaven. What is the best thing I could extra buy to be anti-skaven? Can somebody help me?

That would depend on quite a few things.

1. What point-size armies are you playing?
2. Do you have enough money for the difference between your current models and the army size you want?
3. What kind of theme are you going for (if any)?
4. What kind of play style do you prefer (if any)?
5. Do you have any other common opponents aside from Skaven?

There are probably a couple of other questions I'm not thinking of, but that would get us off to a decent start.

Kirbinator wrote:That would depend on quite a few things.

1. What point-size armies are you playing?
2. Do you have enough money for the difference between your current models and the army size you want?
3. What kind of theme are you going for (if any)?
4. What kind of play style do you prefer (if any)?
5. Do you have any other common opponents aside from Skaven?

There are probably a couple of other questions I'm not thinking of, but that would get us off to a decent start.

1. I want an point-size army of 2500 points.
2. Doesn't matter
3. I'm going for a sort of pirate theme with their favorite god as Khaine and they love Blood above else.
4. I haven't played much battle's so I don't really know it yet. But I like the agressif way of fighting.
5. Some times Bretonnia and Orcs and Goblins

is this a better start?

It certainly is! So we're going for a 2500 point list that has Corsairs and Khainite units that can handle heavy cav (Brets) and massed infantry (OnG, Skaven). No worries about Dark Elves being aggressive, the nature of glass armies lends itself to being aggressive one way or another.

Now, the bad part is those Executioners aren't very well suited against those armies. Against Brets they tend to get wiped out by lance-formation charges and against massed cheap infantry they simply do not have the number of attacks needed to wade through a block of Clanrats/Slaves or Goblins. That being said, they are nice models and your list can be strong enough in other ways to allow for less-solid things like Executioners.

What style of Warriors did you make: Crossbows or Spearmen? Same with your Corsairs: Handbows or Additional Hand Weapons? There's ceratinly nothing wrong with whichever way you did them, just want to try to use the models you already have as much as possible.

I don't have my book on me here at work, but the list would basically look like this:

Dragonlord
2x Lv.2 Sorceress with appropriate magic items
Block of Corsairs
Some mix of Spearmen and Crossbowmen, whatever you have built and in padded up to appropriate numbers
Assassin hiding somewhere
Small unit of Dark Riders
Knights
Executioners
Double Hydra

It has a rather high percentage of suboptimal choices, but it could be a decent list to run assuming your opponents don't make their lists as nasty as possible.

double hydra screams cheese. 1 is enough.

My DE list goes something like:
dragon lord
2 lv2 sorceress'
1 bsb
5 dark riders
5-7 shades
25 spearmen
2x10 crossbowmen
20 black guard
1 hydra
and if I have the points for them, cold one knights and 5 harpies.

Assassin's are situational as they require their unit to match up against a unit with characters in it to be effective.

You could just as easily forgo the spearmen in favor of more crossbows.

2 Hydras is very good, and isnt cheese, especially when you start talking skaven HPAs and other stuff.

The double hydra was certainly considered excessive in 7th edition when they were extremely difficult to get rid of. Nowadays there are plenty of ways to deal with them, especially within the Skaven book.

A Doomwheel will very often destroy a Hydra and for less points. That Skitterleaped 65-point Warlock with a Brass Orb can nuke a Hydra in one shot (initiative test or die). Warp Lightning Cannons can knock them out in one or two hits and the Hydra costs nearly as much as two Cannons. If you hit the Hydra with Scorch or a Warpfire Thrower before the cannons/doomwheels hit it then the Hydra doesn't get any save at all. Heck, a 60-point unit of 30 Skaven Slaves can pin a Hydra down for two or three turns and lets the entire team of Skaven shooting nuke it into oblivion. And of course, this is not to mention the nastiness of Plague/Ruin magic and the havoc it can do to the entire Dark Elf army.

Even for non-Skaven there are plenty of instant-kill spells, movement-reducing spells, blocks of cheap infantry, flaming artillery, etc. to deal with them. I don't feel the double Hydra is cheesey, especially not at 2500 points. At 1500 I'd tend to agree with you though.

Assassins warmachine hunt pretty well, and 5-7 killing blow attacks is pretty good too, especially in a unit with the armor piercing banner.

If you want to do a pirate theme, try and stick with stuff that would fit on a ship.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:If you want to do a pirate theme, try and stick with stuff that would fit on a ship.

Hydras can swim, WoW told me so.

I saw somewhere someone did a sea-serpent style hydra for a Corsair-themed army.

For dealing with massed infantry, two-weapon corsairs are good. Witch elves are better. A unit of 10 witches will attack before most of the things you will face, chew them up badly before getting massacred, and only cost you 100 points. Follow that up with a block of spearmen (you will likely outrank them at that point) and Bob's your uncle.

Kirbinator wrote:It certainly is! So we're going for a 2500 point list that has Corsairs and Khainite units that can handle heavy cav (Brets) and massed infantry (OnG, Skaven). No worries about Dark Elves being aggressive, the nature of glass armies lends itself to being aggressive one way or another.

Now, the bad part is those Executioners aren't very well suited against those armies. Against Brets they tend to get wiped out by lance-formation charges and against massed cheap infantry they simply do not have the number of attacks needed to wade through a block of Clanrats/Slaves or Goblins. That being said, they are nice models and your list can be strong enough in other ways to allow for less-solid things like Executioners.

What style of Warriors did you make: Crossbows or Spearmen? Same with your Corsairs: Handbows or Additional Hand Weapons? There's ceratinly nothing wrong with whichever way you did them, just want to try to use the models you already have as much as possible.

I don't have my book on me here at work, but the list would basically look like this:

Dragonlord
2x Lv.2 Sorceress with appropriate magic items
Block of Corsairs
Some mix of Spearmen and Crossbowmen, whatever you have built and in padded up to appropriate numbers
Assassin hiding somewhere
Small unit of Dark Riders
Knights
Executioners
Double Hydra

It has a rather high percentage of suboptimal choices, but it could be a decent list to run assuming your opponents don't make their lists as nasty as possible.

All of my warriors have spears and my corsaires two hand weapons.
Wich lores schould have my sorcereses? I thought about fire and dark magic.
I want to buy more crossbows and 'upgrade' one of my units into a horde to use all advantages of my spears.
I tought about using my ececutioners to kill som rat ogres?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

aerethan wrote:double hydra screams cheese. 1 is enough.

My DE list goes something like:
dragon lord
2 lv2 sorceress'
1 bsb
5 dark riders
5-7 shades
25 spearmen
2x10 crossbowmen
20 black guard
1 hydra
and if I have the points for them, cold one knights and 5 harpies.

Assassin's are situational as they require their unit to match up against a unit with characters in it to be effective.

You could just as easily forgo the spearmen in favor of more crossbows.

Why do I need shades,harpies and black guard

Brennian wrote:
All of my warriors have spears and my corsaires two hand weapons.
Wich lores schould have my sorcereses? I thought about fire and dark magic.
I want to buy more crossbows and 'upgrade' one of my units into a horde to use all advantages of my spears.
I tought about using my ececutioners to kill som rat ogres?

Why do I need shades,harpies and black guard

Fire and dark are both good. With 2 level 2's, I like fire. Take the sacrificial dagger, and the +1 power die item. Make sure both default to fireball.
You will have great magic phases when you roll really low on the dice for the winds of magic.
The combo of bonus power dice, along with power of darkness and the lore of fire attribute (+D3 to casting) really add up quickly.

If you want a horde you'll need 40 spearmen to maximize your attacks... but corsairs can toss out the same number of attacks with only 30 guys (since the front rank get two).
I would avoid the cold one riders, they are sub par choices against skaven(won't kill enough) and high elves (lose too many to the stand and fire).
On magic gear, I suggest fitting in a black dragon egg against both. 2D6 S4 hits in combat is a great deal for 30 points.

What does your skaven opponent typically run? If they are running a shooting list, you can load up on some crossbows and shoot back(which are also good against high elves).
If the skaven player runs a monster/ogre/furnace list and loads up on the skaven shooting protection thing, taking too much shooting will really hurt you.

I've notice that skaven and high elves pair up pretty well against me and it's always a good game.

-Matt

When I had some time, I made an army list:
-Dreadlord(lance,black dragon,blood armour,black amulet,warriors bane):556pt

-Sorceress(lore of fire)(lvl2,Black dragon egg):165ptn

-sorceress(dark magic)(lvl 2,sacrificial dagger):160ptn

-30warriors(schields,lordling,musician,standard bearer):225ptn

-10warriors(schields,lordling,musician,standard bearer):85ptn

-16crossbowmen(guardsmaster,musician,standard bearer):180ptn

-10corsaires(reaver,musician,standard bearer):125pnt

-5dark riders(herald,musician,standard bearer):120ptn

-Assassin(additionel hand weapon,rune of khaine,dance of doom,manbane,touch of death):206ptn

-Executioners(draich master,musician,standard bearer):150ptn

-Cold one knights(Dread knight,musician,standard bearer):175ptn

-2 times a war hydra: 350pnt

A lance is wasted when riding a dragon, a great weapon would be better if not taking a magic weapon.

10 warriors will accomplish nothing. Drop them or add them to the larger unit.

why 16 crossbowmen? run 20 in 2 sets of 10 or 1 unit of 10x2

10 corsairs will accomplish as much as 10 warriors. squat.

dark riders only need a musician. the champ and standard are near useless.

how many executioners? black guard are IMO better.

how many cold one knights? command models are a waste here as well.

I still say that 2 hydras is [Mod Edit] and won't make many friends. [Mod Edit - Neither will using that word like that.]

Actually, a standard on COK can help with the breakpoint scenario. Standards on Dark Riders, on the other hand, usually hurt because they are easy kills.

Vulcan wrote:Actually, a standard on COK can help with the breakpoint scenario. Standards on Dark Riders, on the other hand, usually hurt because they are easy kills.

I'd say a small unit of 5 CoK would be considered an easy kill as well. If only running 5 I'd send them out naked, they aren't too bad for 135 points. I still prefer a Chariot, but the knights can still deal a fair amount of pain to something on the charge.

aerethan wrote:A lance is wasted when riding a dragon, a great weapon would be better if not taking a magic weapon.

Why would a lance be wasted and a great weapon better?

maybe i can change the 10 warroirs to enlarge my corsairs and drop the standardbearer of my dark riders and the sorcerres(dark magic) for extra cold one knights.

I chose 16crossbowmen because they are in the box with 16 men.

5 COK can be effective, if used right, you'll need to hide them from fire and gain as much use of cover as possible. However, it's much easier to get a unit of 10 and run straight into the enemy's face

Adding the 10 warriors to the exsisting warrior unit is an excellent move, it makes it a horde, so all of those models can attack.

I also think that 10 corsairs are a bit useless too, if you're keeping them as 10 give them handbows and use them as a small flanking, redirecting unit.

There are also a few small things: Consider a BSB, it can be very useful, and at 2500 there's no reason why you can't fit one in. Also, you might want to increase the size of your executioner block to 15 or so.

Try running 20 COK - one unit of ten up the middle with HQ, and two on the flanks naked. The other player will likely hammer the big unit, but will be unlikely to wipe it out totally so you can hide the last guy or two at need to deny VP. And who knows, maybe it might last long enough to make it to the enemy.

Then the two flank units will rip open his battleline...