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Simple, as the Title, do the salamanders as a chapter just have black skin pigment or do they have africanesque features as well? I know there is probably no definitive answer but i would be interested in your input/own self formed ideas. Thanks :-)

Dunno... does it matter?

Not really no, Just curious sis'all.

Their blackness is a genetic mutation unrelated to why actual people have darker skin pigments. Remember, they also have red, glowing eyes.

purplefood wrote:Dunno... does it matter?

What the hell kind of response is that? I'm sure it matters to someone painting, playing, or fanboying the Salamanders.

Anyway, no. Depicting them as "African" isn't accurate. The radiation of nocturne combined with Vulkan's geneseed renders the pigmentation of any Salamander pitch black, and also gives them red eyes. They are also often depicted with orange, grey or black hair. This happens irrelevant of any facial/body features of the pre-Astartes individual.

Like Manchu said,
and there was a marine in a Salamander book ( not sure if part 1 or 2 ) which had partially white skin and was seen as special for that since all of them
have the same skin color.

But racial traits? No.
Nothing of the tribes at nocturne hints at any specific heritage from Terra.

Cool. Thanks for the answer(s). I suppose it would be a bit insensitive to have the African marines all in one chapter.

I'm not sure of what the native ethnicity of Nocturne looks like. All I know is that the Salamander's "Melanchromic Organ" is messed up. Just like how the Imperial Fists don't have acid saliva what with their missing Betcher's Gland.

Both, GW depicts them as both Onyx skinned with red eyes, and African skinned (IIRC).

Your choice.

revackey wrote:Both, GW depicts them as . . . African skinned (IIRC).

I've never seen this.

Eye of Terror campaign book had them painted with "Dark Flesh" paint.

It's not a natural dark skin tone. it's described as jet-black.
plus they have glowy red eyes. Not exactly african
It's chalked up to genetics / radiation... so maybe blacks turned "super black"? not likely but plausible

Pre-5th ed space marine codex, they were painted with african skin-color. The fluff was rewritten with the new codex, and they got their all black skin (which looks silly IMO)

That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

Manchu wrote:

revackey wrote:Both, GW depicts them as . . . African skinned (IIRC).

I've never seen this.

I'll try and find a picture, notice how I said IIRC, so I may be wrong.

It seemed to me it was almost like how they do Raven Guard, some are normal color, some are pale.

Kilkrazy wrote:That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

At least 2. Helmet on move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

rofl

Kilkrazy wrote:That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

Space Wolves are not caucasian, they're like wolfmen with extra hair, fangs, animal eyes and longer skulls like a wolf.

Kilkrazy wrote:That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

It's true that they USED to be black/african and were retconned. I guess GW are in a weird position now. To have some 'black' planets and some 'white' planets would appear racist, but then the best alternative would be to paint their armies with a good mix of skin tones. However, they've never really done this. Even the Tallarns had pretty much the same skin tone as the Cadians.

I have no problem with the idea of worlds of people with similar skin tone, though. I think it would have been perfectly acceptable for GW to keep Salamanders as 'dark-skinned', being as they're from a ridiculously hot volcano planet. They just need to mix up the skin tones in their regular marine forces a bit more - if the Imperial Fists and Black Templars recruit from all sorts of different worlds, why do their marines all look the same?

Yeah me and my mate Benny had this discussion a while back. Whilst I'm certain it's not an intentional omission, but there are literally no black guys in 40k. Benny used to have a Catachan army with about 80% of the dudes painted black, for that Viet Nam authenticity. Painting Tallarns olive or coffee-skinned is a good idea, but you never see it.

In the grim darkness of the far future there is only whites.

To be honest Im not so sure that in the far future with thousands of planets under the Imperium's control the continents of earth seem quite UN-important.
BTW No offense please im not trying to make your post seem stupid or anything, this is just my opinion on why they wouldn't be African.

Officially, Salamanders get black skin after they're turned into space marines because of radiation but that's ridiculus and I wish they would just have them actually be Africanesque.


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Kilkrazy wrote:That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

That's covered it quite a bit of detail here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/293090.page

Basically, there is tons of racial diversity in the background. However, there's not much diversity in the official depictions of the model ranges.

ArbitorIan wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

It's true that they USED to be black/african and were retconned.

This has come up before and the old timers have said that the Salamanders were originally black skinned with red eyes. It was later attempts to associate them with black people as we understand that term that had them become black africans. They haven't been retconned in that sense, they've had their original fluff verified.


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KamikazeCanuck wrote:Officially, Salamanders get black skin after they're turned into space marines because of radiation but that's ridiculus

No more ridiculous than marines that grow fangs and other wolf-like features, or those that grow fangs like vampires.

and I wish they would just have them actually be Africanesque.

There's nothing really "african" about them though.

cadbren wrote:

and I wish they would just have them actually be Africanesque.

There's nothing really "african" about them though.

I think thats the most important point, having black skin doesn't make you Africanesque. The term Africanesque is meaningless, the continent houses so many cultures, groups and languages that to make a chapter based on it would be impossible.

cadbren wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:That's what I thought. A retcon move by GW, possibly to avoid accusations of racism.

It makes you wonder how many non-Caucasian characters there are in 40K.

It's true that they USED to be black/african and were retconned.

This has come up before and the old timers have said that the Salamanders were originally black skinned with red eyes. It was later attempts to associate them with black people as we understand that term that had them become black africans. They haven't been retconned in that sense, they've had their original fluff verified.


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KamikazeCanuck wrote:Officially, Salamanders get black skin after they're turned into space marines because of radiation but that's ridiculus

No more ridiculous than marines that grow fangs and other wolf-like features, or those that grow fangs like vampires.

and I wish they would just have them actually be Africanesque.

There's nothing really "african" about them though.

Not ridiculus in its plausibility, ridiculus that instead of having Marines with naturally dark skin they are white and then get burned black. Why not just have Marines with naturally dark skin? What's wrong with that?


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BluntmanDC wrote:

cadbren wrote:

and I wish they would just have them actually be Africanesque.

There's nothing really "african" about them though.

I think thats the most important point, having black skin doesn't make you Africanesque. The term Africanesque is meaningless, the continent houses so many cultures, groups and languages that to make a chapter based on it would be impossible.

By Africanesque, the word I just made up, I mean have naturally black skin. They would not be African because obviously they are not from Africa. Just like Space Woves are not Scandinavian.

This far into the future and through all of the war and genocide it wouldn't surprise me if humanity was just a mixture of all of the cultures we have today....

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Not ridiculus in its plausibility, ridiculus that instead of having Marines with naturally dark skin they are white and then get burned black. Why not just have Marines with naturally dark skin? What's wrong with that?

Who says there aren't marines with naturally dark skin? Skin colour is a result of melanin concentrations so it's possible that the gene seed causes any naturally dark skinned people to become lighter skinned, or albino like in the case of Raven Guard. The Emperor did not have dark skin and ultimately the gene seed comes from him, though there is no reason why a chapter couldn't have dark skin.

By Africanesque, the word I just made up, I mean have naturally black skin. They would not be African because obviously they are not from Africa. Just like Space Woves are not Scandinavian.

Africans aren't the only people on this planet to have black skin anyway, Australian Aborigines, Papuans, Melanesians and others are all very dark too.

its safe to say that if you were "white", "Black", "Asian" or whatever before you were an Astartes, you are now "El'Jhonson", "Russ", "Guilliman", etc after everything is said and done. Your genetic code is written over and you start to look like your primarch in all levels. (barring geneseed corruption)

Wether or not your Astartes have taken on the traditions of an African tribe of current day Africa is still up to them, but its unlikely that they will be "black" under the armor, becuase they will still start to resemble their primarch eventually even if they started out being "black" before the operations.

Then again, as a player you can do or paint however you choose so more power to ya.

I used to play 40k with a black fellow. He actually played Salamanders for years because they were the "black" guys. He was PISSED when they made Salamanders literally black. I just laughed when he brought that up. I guess the man IS keeping the black man down


I personally dont get why GW did that. I never saw a racist thing about them. But what can ya do

Manchu wrote:

revackey wrote:Both, GW depicts them as . . . African skinned (IIRC).

I've never seen this.

Try Codex: Armageddon (2000).