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Hi

i am creating a list which i hope will take out most armies

HQ

pedro cantor - 175

Troops

Tactical squad w/melta, rhino, ML - 210

5 man squad w/ snipers - 75

Elites

10 man sternguard w/10 combi-plasmas, DP - 335

10 man sternguard w/9 combi-plasmas, DP - 330

Iornclad - 135

Fast attack

Land speeder w/ MM, HF - 70

Land speeder w/ MM, HF - 70

Heavy support

thunderfire cannon - 100
_________
1500

what do you think???

please comment

I'd give one of the SG units combi-meltas. Other than that it's fine, though that amount of plasma in one squad is a bit of a risk. Still, it'll be funny seeing these guys shoot at termies!

loose the Iron Clad, its like an anchor weighing your army down. replace your scouts with tac marines. Give one tac a rhino. Plasmas are good against troops, but 5ht ed is mech oriented so mix in meltas.

I would also loose the Thunderfire cannon, as fun to use as it is. You definately need another troops option. And I would give some of your Sternguard combi-meltas instead of full plasms to take on tanks. This would leave you some points for upgrades and so on.

reason i haven't taken many troops is because with kantor, sternguard can hold objectives making them effectively troops. i think deadeye is correct, my iornclad is just slowing me down unless i find the points for yet another dp which means i can drop down both sternguard on the same turn and have the dread come in as support. i think the thunderfire can do some damage but the ap is to high so i will drop that. so i wil...

- change 6 plasmas for meltas
- get rid of thunderfire cannon
- give dp to dread
- boost up my scouts up to 10 men

i think thats the same amount of points cost.

Why not DP the TAC marines? That would let you drop both stern guard on turn one.

Plas on stern guard is scary! How do you plan to crack vehicles before you plasma em up?

What role does the tunderfire cannon fill?

How will you deal with fast assault armies that assault sternguard? Would a PF or IC help?

i got pedro in one of the SG squads and i lost the thunderfire cannon since i knew it was a fail on it's own. the dread is not going solo, the dp is needed for the dread

the tunderfire cannon is fun to look at, but hard to use. I'd go for a predator with dual las, and bolters for my heavy.
If you want to keep the thunderfire, see if you can do so by going with less sternguards.

Your sniper squad needs to have cloaks. But you're absolutely right in only taking 2 troop choices when you've got 4 scoring units already, and 7 when you combat squad.

I really think you need more melta as well... AP 1 works just as well against terminator armor as plasma does sans the extra shot at 12, as well as the risk of death by gets hot. However it adds to your versatility a lot more than combi-plasma will.

As everyone else is saying, Drop the lone t-fire.. You can get away with a single one at 1000 points, but higher than that you need at least 2.

With the extra points you can get a drop pod for your iron clad, though to be honest I don't see the point of the bugger.

so now the list looks like....

HQ

Kantor - 175

Troops

tactical squad w/rhino, melta, ML - 210

scout squad - 140

Elites

Sternguard squad w/ 5 combi-plasmas, 5 -meltas, DP - 335

Sternguard squad w/ 5 combi-plasmas, 4 -meltas, DP - 330

Iornclad w/dp, SH, PF - 170

Fast Attack

land speeder w/MM, HF - 70

land speeder w/MM, HF - 70
____
1500

yes or no???

I'd reduce the scout squad and give it camocloaks then it can actually do its job properly. Give the Ironclad a heavy flamer and the tac sarge a combi-melta and suddenly those units become far more effective. If you go 2nd you have to reserve everything except the scouts.

Against assault armies drop in the Ironclad first. I think you're light on horde control given the amounnt of points you are DPing with the Sternguard.

madman12367 wrote:so now the list looks like....

HQ

Kantor - 175

Troops

tactical squad w/rhino, melta, ML - 210

scout squad - 140

Elites

Sternguard squad w/ 5 combi-plasmas, 5 -meltas, DP - 335

Sternguard squad w/ 5 combi-plasmas, 4 -meltas, DP - 330

Iornclad w/dp, SH, PF - 170

Fast Attack

land speeder w/MM, HF - 70

land speeder w/MM, HF - 70
____
1500

yes or no???

Looking good. You have a pretty aggressive drop pod list, which can be surprisingly effective.

The only thing that would bother me would be the lack of long range anti-transport shooting. MM are great, but when your speeders are cracking open rhinos, their contents are spilling all over your marines. Its much better to crack them at a distance.

How do you plan on handling an IG player who sits back and shoots? Your speeders will crack 1 tank each at best before they are turned into fine mist. I would swap out the ironclad for a dakka dread (TL AC *2) and change your speeders to typhoons. That will give you the long range anti-vehicle that you need to get the job done.

I would also change the TAC squad ML to a MM and park them in the middle of the board. A MM at 24" is more dangerous than a LC vs AV 13 or less. It will bring a nice threat that the ML just lacks.

alright now i should lose the dred, S7 though is pants. i want S8+ i would probbaly say, MM and either LC or TLAC. if i go with TLAC i have 55 points to spend.i will change my special weapon to a MM.

to be honest even if i were going up against guard they have the problem of potetially 4 sternguard squad coming down and beating the hell out of any tanks since i have many meltas and plasma weapons!.

i think i should keep the third DP since that way i still canhave my sternguard come down on the same turn one problem though, i dont have three :/.

i will keep the LS simple because they will pop very quickly...

so if i lose it and have them come down one ofter the other i will have 55 points to use. what for??? my bet is probbaly 1 teleport homer on one dp or one the tac squad so i can dp without scattering. say i take it with the tacs i have 40 points. what will i spend it on???

Sorry for the long post -- hope you read it, as its full of points just for you.

madman12367 wrote:alright now i should lose the dred, S7 though is pants.

No, its a great tool for the right job.

An TL AC has a better chance of destroying AV 10 than any other marine weapon in the game (including a MM). The reason is that you have 2 shots to make per autocannon, and each hit penetrates on a 4+. This is critically useful when taking down enemy skimmers, and is ever more effective when they are squadded. With one TL AC I have taken down 3 speeders in 1 round of firing!
Since the TL AC dread can move and fire both weapons, its easy to get side shots. Ive moved him up a board edge while fighting IG and lined up great shots on the sides of chimeras. Its amazing how fast they started popping when I was hitting their side armor!

The TL AC dread is great on taking down enemy bikers turbo boosting. Last night I was fighting a demon army, and the demon player was using demons that were jetbikes and had meltabombs. He rushed them in front of my predators, and I used the AC's to wipe them. When you hit 8/9 of the time, and wound on 2s, nearly every round your saying "Make me 4 saves". In the case of the demon player, all his demons were wiped before they hit my tanks.

The TL AC is also great for taking down T3 swarms. Scarabs pop like candy. I use it to pop any Eldar special character on a bike that is not in a group.

The ability to reliability deliver 4 STR 7 hits is useful for sniping enemy models. When I played a necron player, I use the TL ACs to deliver 3-4 wounds on his lord every round. Eventually saves are failed, and the lord dies after a few rounds. Ive used it to get rid of lash princes, etc. The idea is the same "Ok, make me 4 saves" After a few turns, models will die.

The TL AC dread is not the best tool for the job for taking down AV 12 and above (though you can take pot shots in a pinch, glance on 5, pen on 6, and you will hit 4 times). It excels at the tasks I mentioned above, which is why I always put 1 in my standard SM force. Ive found mixed luck with using 2, but thats another topic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

madman12367 wrote:i will keep the LS simple because they will pop very quickly...

Ok, so lets look at what a LS can do. Your paying 70 points for the ability to drop down and destroy a vehicle. 2/3 of the time, when you drop you will scatter. If you scatter out of 12" with the MM, the odds of destroying a vehicle go down, and if you place to close to the enemy model, then you might mishap -- and no good comes of that.

Scattering aside, lets look at the chances of the speeder destroying AV 12, 13, and 14. You can research this on simhammer.com, a tool I built for testing weapons vs AV.

AV 12 : 28.6% chance to destroy
AV 13 : 25.14% chance to destroy
AV 14 : 20.9% chance to destroy

So with your 70 points, you are taking a bet that you will destroy the target in 1 round of shooting -- as we agreed that is all you can reliably expect to get before being turned into flying powder.
Now its all a matter of judgement, but I don't think that a 25% to destroy a 180 point russ is worth 70 points. (I'm assuming you will drop on the side armor, which is the likely chance with scattering) 4 such speeders would cost you 280 points....is that a fair trade for one russ?

Now, the math changes if your playing a Vulcan list, as changing the 'to hits' from 2/3 to 8/9 dramatically change the overall results, but your not playing Vulcan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

madman12367 wrote: what will i spend it on???

Ironclad =170
MM Speeder * 2 = 140
Total Cost = 310

TL AC Dread : 125
2 Typhoons : 180
Total Cost : 305

I only see a difference of 5 points

ok then i could include free HF on the front of the LS for free! but should i chang my tac squads rhino for a DP so i can DP both of my sternguard on the same turn.

One of my friends DP's all of his marines. He plays a shrike army, so he compliments the DP with 10 infiltrating/fleeting TH/SS termies. It enough to send you into renal failure....*shudder* ...Anyway...

When I first started playing with him, I laughed at the idea of a drop pod army. I thought I would faceroll all over his marines with my horde ork army / marine bike army.

After seeing it in play a few times, I am highly impressed with how effective it is. He drops his pods and keeps his troops on the legs of the pod (the ones you lower after the pod is on the board), providing all his marines have cover. Even destroying the pod gives a crater, which the marines can stand in for cover.

He usually clusters his pods within 15" of each other, providing covering fields of fire and preventing me from overwhelming him. Any time he has dropped one solo behind enemy lines (save for an objective grab on turn 5 through 'bad' reserve rolling), the squad has been obliterated due to return fire. When he groups his pods in range of each other, ive never been able to handle it easily.

He utilizes 1 tactical squad, 1 scout squad, and 2 sternguard squads -- and I have a new respect for just how effective those things can be. The sternguards come down first, and then the tac squad drops on an objective he wants to take later in the game. As pods stop deviating when they hit terrain, he usually gets it really close to where he wanted to be.

What makes his army work so well, is that you need to spend the majority of your focus on the 400 point gorilla in the room (the 10 fleeting terminators), meaning that your ignoring the sternguard / dreadnoughts / speeders / other support that he has brought to the table. By the time your done dealing with the terminators (assuming you can deal with them), the rest of his army has plucked you apart.

Another thing his list does is it forces you to deal with the models right in your face. He destroys IG players by dropping the pods right in front of the IG tanks. They can either focus on the terminators that are 18" in turn one (which will fleet so they can assault on turn 2) or he can deal with the 2 sternguard that just came out bristling with melta-plamsa combi weapons.

It synergies tremendously well, and if your looking for something effective try it out by proxying models.
Trust me, TH/SS terminators should not fleet...it just breaks the game in so many ways.

i think cheese like fleeting TH/SS termies makes the game a pretty easy one to win but not as fun as beating them but watch some of you own modles be obliterated termendously. with reagrds to my list do you think i go with DPs or not, i only have three over 4 though...

Go with DPs for your sternguard/troops. If your running that 'in your face dread' drop him too.

If you don't have enough DPs, proxy them in casual games. Learn to play your army so your not investing $$$ into something not viable.

why should i DP a dread when it is a shooty one???

When I say " in your face" I mean the dread with a CCW and MM. The dakka dread does not need a pod

Suicide dreads are not a good investment IMO(especially not without Vulkan). Against AV 14 they have a ~28% chance of scoring a penetrating hit, its simply not worth it . Against low AV targets you are better of with a Rifleman dread

nice tactics with shrike, but use 2 DPS for 10 termies, ill rather load 8 to LRC.

so now my list is....

HQ

Kantor - 175

Troops

Tactical squad w/rhino, melta,ML - 210

10 man scout squad w/snipers - 140

Elites

10 man Sterngard squad w/5 combi-plasmas, 5 -meltas, dp - 335

10 man Sterngard squad w/5 combi-plasmas, 5 -meltas, dp - 335

dread w/ 2 TL AC - 125

Fast attack

LS typhoon w/HF - 90

LS typhoon w/HF - 90
_______
1500

now i think i have too many anti tanks and to little anti troops.

Udunai wrote:nice tactics with shrike, but use 2 DPS for 10 termies, ill rather load 8 to LRC.

Which is what I do with my Shrike list, 2000+ is 2 LRC everything outflanking is so mean. You don't need all of them to be SS to survive either in that case so you can throw some LC in there. Liking the list Madman it looks really streamlined big fan of HF speeders more bang for the buck imo can get those pesky obj sitters like my cc scouts with their 2+ cover save. I can't wait to get started on my Sternguard conversions. molded the 5 set of meltaguns I bought now have 50 Meltaguns, overkill I know but hey they're there in the future, which I'll chop up bolters and combine some of them with for combi-weapons.

LegendJRG wrote:

Udunai wrote:nice tactics with shrike, but use 2 DPS for 10 termies, ill rather load 8 to LRC.

Which is what I do with my Shrike list, 2000+ is 2 LRC everything outflanking is so mean. You don't need all of them to be SS to survive either in that case so you can throw some LC in there. Liking the list Madman it looks really streamlined big fan of HF speeders more bang for the buck imo can get those pesky obj sitters like my cc scouts with their 2+ cover save. I can't wait to get started on my Sternguard conversions. molded the 5 set of meltaguns I bought now have 50 Meltaguns, overkill I know but hey they're there in the future, which I'll chop up bolters and combine some of them with for combi-weapons.

how do they outflank..?

Sorry meant for the specific army I use lol. The crusaders and cc scouts are on the board rest is outflanking/infiltrating/deepstriking, more scout squads with combi-meltas/mb cheaper melta speeders basically and scoring since 2-4 squads of these some are bound to be ignored and my shrike vang vet squad. 2 crusaders draw a LOT of fire though so EA is a must usually vs shooty lists.

Ahaha okay, I thought you meant your two LRCs were outflanking and I just assumed that I had seriously missed something in shrike's entry.

Fleet AND outflanking terminators would just be....

bump