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I have been a fan of 40k since 2001. Unfortunately I haven't played since late 2001 due to life! I am a disabled veteran and things in my life have taken a turn for the worse and I am looking for something positive to focus besides my beautiful wife and wonderful kids. As a result I am getting back into gaming. I have about 70 models (robed DA pewter models) ready to build a starter army but have been debating on building my own chapter. Not sure if I want to fight for the imperium or fall into the shadows of chaos. Where should I post pics of the models and my proxy lists for feedback? Also, I am considering using earth magnets to keep the army versatile as well as be able to change chapters or even alignment depending on how I am feeling. Since my models are robed I think I can go obviously DA, BA, BT or even Chaos. I would have to pick a paint style that can fall in line somewhere along a founding chapter for each since fluff isn't too hard to come up with to justify things. If some of you vets on the forum can offer up some wisdom and point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated!

On a side note, does anyone recognize these models? Not sure what to do with them. I have had them so long and they don't fit into my current vision!

The second one is a Necromunda Cultie preacher i think

Ascalam wrote:The second one is a Necromunda Cultie preacher i think

I was thinking it was a Necromunda piece, possibly a "Redemptionist" Gang member but wasn't sure. I didn't want to sacrifice it to the conversion gods if this was a piece that was either rare/valuable or something another member could/would be very interested in having for their own army/collection?! Thank you for the lead on what the piece may be though!

What do you want to do? Assault? Shoot? Midfield firefights? Theme army?

How do you want to do your style?

Fast units? Fully mechanized? Foot-only? Hybrid? Deep striking/drop podding?

The second guy is the older Redempionist gang leader from Necromunda. There's a newer sculps for that gang now too. The first guy is a Primaris Psyker I think, but I could be wrong.

ivangterrace wrote:What do you want to do? Assault? Shoot? Midfield firefights? Theme army?

How do you want to do your style?

Fast units? Fully mechanized? Foot-only? Hybrid? Deep striking/drop podding?

Well, I want to be able to be versatile. I have about 60+ Robed DA mini's and several other "Characters" that will be used as "Commander", "Cptn", "Sgt", etc. I was thinking about going with magnets on the arms and possibly the should pads so I can repeatedly swap out weapons as well as potential armies. With the right color choices, I think I can create a SM that can identify with several different chapters as well as chaos. For example, if I was to do black armor with red robes, I could potentially play as a spin off of BT, BA, possibly DA and Chaos. All I would need to do is swap out the arms for correct iconography and weaponry and presto, instant army change. I haven't played seriously since 2001 and Im' just now getting reacquainted with 40k. I have looked at BA's, liked some things about them. Looked at BT's, again liked some aspects of the playability. Looked at DA's, not too impressed with what I saw but like the fluff associated with DA's. GK's have caught my interest since I can use them with a SM chapter and benefit from both sides of the coin so to speak in some instances, not to mention the new releases coming out soon. CF's I liked for Pedro Cantor and the Honour Guard option. Right now I am hoping to be able to proxy a few things if the arm/pad swap is not a viable option.

Is what I am proposing going to give me problems? I would be basically running a "counts as" army. Would this be a problem if I decide to get into tourny play after getting a better understanding of the new rules? I looked at MC as a command option as he can take up to 3 Honour Guards with him and the stats they carry with them don't seem too bad with the associated point cost compared to other troop choices. I also like the deep strike option GK's have without having jump packs. There are different aspects I like. I like the idea of deep strike and engaging quickly and striking hard. I like the idea of multiple attacks with hard hitting mini's. I also like the snipers with the addition of Telion to target a specific model.

Should I post some of my mock army lists in this thread or start a new thread somewhere else and direct people there?

sleezesteve wrote:The second guy is the older Redempionist gang leader from Necromunda. There's a newer sculps for that gang now too. The first guy is a Primaris Psyker I think, but I could be wrong.

Thank you for the information! So if I wanted to sacrifice these guys to the conversion gods I wouldn't be struck down for any blasphemy?

Looked at BT's, again liked some aspects of the playability. Looked at DA's, not too impressed with what I saw but like the fluff associated with DA's.

Be sure to check out the FAQs for them. A lot of the entries, options, and point values have been errata'd to bring them in line with 5th edition.

GK's have caught my interest since I can use them with a SM chapter and benefit from both sides of the coin so to speak in some instances, not to mention the new releases coming out soon.

Grey Knights are coming out in march and the allies rules will cease to exist. Hold off on the grey knights until then.

Is what I am proposing going to give me problems? I would be basically running a "counts as" army. Would this be a problem if I decide to get into tourny play after getting a better understanding of the new rules?

As long as the army is WYSIWYG, most TOs won't care.

Should I post some of my mock army lists in this thread or start a new thread somewhere else and direct people there?

Just post them up in the army lists thread and post a link here as well if you want. We'll see what we can do to help you out.

Fallen_Veteran wrote:

ivangterrace wrote:What do you want to do? Assault? Shoot? Midfield firefights? Theme army?

How do you want to do your style?

Fast units? Fully mechanized? Foot-only? Hybrid? Deep striking/drop podding?

Well, I want to be able to be versatile. I have about 60+ Robed DA mini's and several other "Characters" that will be used as "Commander", "Cptn", "Sgt", etc. I was thinking about going with magnets on the arms and possibly the should pads so I can repeatedly swap out weapons as well as potential armies. With the right color choices, I think I can create a SM that can identify with several different chapters as well as chaos. For example, if I was to do black armor with red robes, I could potentially play as a spin off of BT, BA, possibly DA and Chaos. All I would need to do is swap out the arms for correct iconography and weaponry and presto, instant army change. I haven't played seriously since 2001 and Im' just now getting reacquainted with 40k. I have looked at BA's, liked some things about them. Looked at BT's, again liked some aspects of the playability. Looked at DA's, not too impressed with what I saw but like the fluff associated with DA's. GK's have caught my interest since I can use them with a SM chapter and benefit from both sides of the coin so to speak in some instances, not to mention the new releases coming out soon. CF's I liked for Pedro Cantor and the Honour Guard option. Right now I am hoping to be able to proxy a few things if the arm/pad swap is not a viable option.

Is what I am proposing going to give me problems? I would be basically running a "counts as" army. Would this be a problem if I decide to get into tourny play after getting a better understanding of the new rules? I looked at MC as a command option as he can take up to 3 Honour Guards with him and the stats they carry with them don't seem too bad with the associated point cost compared to other troop choices. I also like the deep strike option GK's have without having jump packs. There are different aspects I like. I like the idea of deep strike and engaging quickly and striking hard. I like the idea of multiple attacks with hard hitting mini's. I also like the snipers with the addition of Telion to target a specific model.

Should I post some of my mock army lists in this thread or start a new thread somewhere else and direct people there?

sleezesteve wrote:The second guy is the older Redempionist gang leader from Necromunda. There's a newer sculps for that gang now too. The first guy is a Primaris Psyker I think, but I could be wrong.

Thank you for the information! So if I wanted to sacrifice these guys to the conversion gods I wouldn't be struck down for any blasphemy?

First off, counts-as armies are not really an issue, especially if you make your own space marine chapter.

As for most versatile, it would have to be the vanilla space marines or the post-FAQ black templars.

For nilla' space marines, their most versatile builds involve Vulkan He'stan and melta/flamer weapons

Your typical tactical squad would be
10 guys
meltagun
Multimelta
Sergeant with combi-melta.

2-4 squads of those. If you want scoring objective squatters you can always get a 5 man scout squad with a rocket launcher + snipers but they are not that durable or good. You can always buy 10 marines for access to a heavy weapon and combat squad them but then you have 5 marines running around doing nothing.

Then you rely on either devastators/predators for support and a land raider with close combat termis and your HQ model.

Thats a solid template for success. Its not the only way, but you start out on the right foot with them. You have 10 man tactical squads in mid range killing vehicles with their meltas, a combat your termis killing what comes out, and long range support elements killing vehicles/opponent's long range.

Black templars are also extremely versatile now with the new FAQ out on them now.

This is a bit of speculation because I cannot remember the codex off the top of my head but basically you can have 4 squads of troops kitted for close combat going forward with rhinos and 2 squads of troops on foot kitted for a backfield shooting role. That is big because they are the only marine army that can have full squads of 10 marines in rhinos moving up while at the same time having good troops choice fire support elements in the backfield contributing while standing on objectives. Some people argue tactical squads can fulfill that role but they really cannot since you have to use combat squads to get a fire support element in the backfield. Since you need 10 marines for a heavy weapon, you will be stuck with 2 5 man squads on foot doing little.

On top of this, you can buy armywide preferred enemy with your required emperor's champion. This enhances your marines further, particularly the 4 squads moving up because 40 marines with CCW/BP + whatever special CCW you pick in the squad is not that special in close combat. With preferred enemy, you are capable of damaging (not necessarily taking on) extreme close combat specialists.

You don't necessarily need 10 marines in those squads moving up, but its a solid number for 2k points battles (2k is around the area most tournaments lean towards, at least the good ones).

Then you have your typical space marine things in that codex you can expect, with their own BT perks. I won't explain them all but basically BT don't lack in fire support or specialized close combat units.

Although late in my post, I should define "specialized" units. Basically units that are the best at something like close combat or shooting as compared to the rest of their codex.


I understand that vehicles are really annoying to buy monetary wise (not points lol), but it is difficult to run a good list without them.

I don't agree with ivangterrace. Vanilla have plenty of good builds, and not all of them revolve around the monster known as Vulkan. Besides, your "typical" tactical squad is terrible, and not at all "typical". Not every weapon in a Vulkan list has to use his rules.

Also, I don't agree that combat squading is useless, because of the Razorback. You can combat squad, leave the heavy weapon in the backfield, and have your combat squad (with special weapon) ride up in the razorback. That way when they get there, they have at the very least a TL heavy bolter, at best a lascannon and TL plasmagun. Good luck doing that without combat squading.

Overall, I would say start with vanilla, just because all the other marine codexes draw off of it. You also won't get pigeon holed into using one of the more specialized marine 'dexes, just because its the only one you have. Once you have the basic marine dex down, go ahead and branch out.

I think that using magnets so profusely will be more pain than its worth. You can find crap tons of marines for cheap, so it's not like you will be short of models. You might want to magnetize their shoulder pads, but I really don't think its that big a deal.

I personally hate counts as armies, so I can't remain unbiased and talk about them. But I would say don't do it. Find an army and stick with it.

PraetorDave wrote:I don't agree with ivangterrace. Vanilla have plenty of good builds, and not all of them revolve around the monster known as Vulkan. Besides, your "typical" tactical squad is terrible, and not at all "typical". Not every weapon in a Vulkan list has to use his rules.

Also, I don't agree that combat squading is useless, because of the Razorback. You can combat squad, leave the heavy weapon in the backfield, and have your combat squad (with special weapon) ride up in the razorback. That way when they get there, they have at the very least a TL heavy bolter, at best a lascannon and TL plasmagun. Good luck doing that without combat squading.

Overall, I would say start with vanilla, just because all the other marine codexes draw off of it. You also won't get pigeon holed into using one of the more specialized marine 'dexes, just because its the only one you have. Once you have the basic marine dex down, go ahead and branch out.

I think that using magnets so profusely will be more pain than its worth. You can find crap tons of marines for cheap, so it's not like you will be short of models. You might want to magnetize their shoulder pads, but I really don't think its that big a deal.

I personally hate counts as armies, so I can't remain unbiased and talk about them. But I would say don't do it. Find an army and stick with it.

Most builds are not as good and as easy to run as vulkan. Sure, you can run other builds and keep getting your teeth kicked in until you figure out the codex and your build. I'm suggesting he spends less time figuring out builds and more time learning the codex, after he has a good grasp, he'll probably branch out into other builds.

Even with a razorback you have 5 marines sitting in it, who are doing nothing aside from dying the odd event of something bypassing your army and coming into backfield. Having 5 marines not do something most of the game is a waste.

Your reasoning is not helping and you don't know what a melta bunker is (tac squad I listed, clarified for the uninformed).

Space Wolves can also be good for some versitility. Thunderwolves fill out close combat quite nicely, while Longfangs got range covered. The humble Grey Hunter Squad in a Razor is much more tactically flexible and cheaper than Vanillas running the same thing. Wolf Guards also give you ALOT of options. Character wise they're one of the best.

You will get some ire for using their rules tho, so be aware of that. However given all the proxy armies running around, there's nothing that disallows you from using your marine army with any of the codexes, as long as the equipment are correct.

ivangterrace wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:I don't agree with ivangterrace. Vanilla have plenty of good builds, and not all of them revolve around the monster known as Vulkan. Besides, your "typical" tactical squad is terrible, and not at all "typical". Not every weapon in a Vulkan list has to use his rules.

Also, I don't agree that combat squading is useless, because of the Razorback. You can combat squad, leave the heavy weapon in the backfield, and have your combat squad (with special weapon) ride up in the razorback. That way when they get there, they have at the very least a TL heavy bolter, at best a lascannon and TL plasmagun. Good luck doing that without combat squading.

Overall, I would say start with vanilla, just because all the other marine codexes draw off of it. You also won't get pigeon holed into using one of the more specialized marine 'dexes, just because its the only one you have. Once you have the basic marine dex down, go ahead and branch out.

I think that using magnets so profusely will be more pain than its worth. You can find crap tons of marines for cheap, so it's not like you will be short of models. You might want to magnetize their shoulder pads, but I really don't think its that big a deal.

I personally hate counts as armies, so I can't remain unbiased and talk about them. But I would say don't do it. Find an army and stick with it.

Most builds are not as good and as easy to run as vulkan. Sure, you can run other builds and keep getting your teeth kicked in until you figure out the codex and your build. I'm suggesting he spends less time figuring out builds and more time learning the codex, after he has a good grasp, he'll probably branch out into other builds.

Even with a razorback you have 5 marines sitting in it, who are doing nothing aside from dying the odd event of something bypassing your army and coming into backfield. Having 5 marines not do something most of the game is a waste.

Your reasoning is not helping and you don't know what a melta bunker is (tac squad I listed, clarified for the uninformed).

I can see the point PraetorDave makes about the 'nilla marines. I do need to get up to speed when it come to the new rules and 'dexs! However, I like playing a specialized army. I was brought up through the ranks as a vanilla player in 2001 because "its the easiest army to play and grasp how the game works". I am considering building my own chapter based on an existing chapter. The reason for the ability to "switch" from one army to another is so I can proxy new things and not have to buy new minis right away. I understand people view space marines as cheap but unfortunately nothing is cheap when you are married with 5 (yes I said 5) children!

If anyone wants to donate mini's to the cause I am more than happy to accept! If you didn't read my intro I am a disabled veteran and my disabilities have had an extremely adverse effect on my life. I can no longer do any of the things I used to. Luckily a new gaming store opened up about 20 minutes from my house and they run regular games that I am looking into. They are supposed to have an "escalation" league that starts at 250 or 500 pts. and increases by 250 pts. each week until it tops out at 2000 pts.


ivangterrace, how would the Salamander Army fair in this setting? I have never played a heavy "fire" themed army before. Is Vulkan He'stan the reason I am seeing so many salamander conversions and army now? I want to try and push mysel to get better at modeling and painting which is why I am looking at conversions such as magnetizing my mini's and creating my own chapter. I was thinking about the "counts as" route because I'd hate to spend all this time and money to build an army I end up not enjoying to play! Like I said, if anyone has extra models and/or bits they can "donate" my way, awesome! If someone has mini's they are willing to sell fairly cheap (reasonably priced) or are looking to barter, I am open to that as well! Hahaha... gaming on a budget is killing me! This is why the escalation league looks so appealing right now, I would have several weeks to build a force!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Space Wolves can also be good for some versitility. Thunderwolves fill out close combat quite nicely, while Longfangs got range covered. The humble Grey Hunter Squad in a Razor is much more tactically flexible and cheaper than Vanillas running the same thing. Wolf Guards also give you ALOT of options. Character wise they're one of the best.

You will get some ire for using their rules tho, so be aware of that. However given all the proxy armies running around, there's nothing that disallows you from using your marine army with any of the codexes, as long as the equipment are correct.

Never really been a fan of the wolves miniatures?! I don't know, maybe if I did something with custom helmets and runes that could be pretty cool... hmmm... space wolves... hmmm...

Fallen_Veteran wrote:

ivangterrace wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:I don't agree with ivangterrace. Vanilla have plenty of good builds, and not all of them revolve around the monster known as Vulkan. Besides, your "typical" tactical squad is terrible, and not at all "typical". Not every weapon in a Vulkan list has to use his rules.

Also, I don't agree that combat squading is useless, because of the Razorback. You can combat squad, leave the heavy weapon in the backfield, and have your combat squad (with special weapon) ride up in the razorback. That way when they get there, they have at the very least a TL heavy bolter, at best a lascannon and TL plasmagun. Good luck doing that without combat squading.

Overall, I would say start with vanilla, just because all the other marine codexes draw off of it. You also won't get pigeon holed into using one of the more specialized marine 'dexes, just because its the only one you have. Once you have the basic marine dex down, go ahead and branch out.

I think that using magnets so profusely will be more pain than its worth. You can find crap tons of marines for cheap, so it's not like you will be short of models. You might want to magnetize their shoulder pads, but I really don't think its that big a deal.

I personally hate counts as armies, so I can't remain unbiased and talk about them. But I would say don't do it. Find an army and stick with it.

Most builds are not as good and as easy to run as vulkan. Sure, you can run other builds and keep getting your teeth kicked in until you figure out the codex and your build. I'm suggesting he spends less time figuring out builds and more time learning the codex, after he has a good grasp, he'll probably branch out into other builds.

Even with a razorback you have 5 marines sitting in it, who are doing nothing aside from dying the odd event of something bypassing your army and coming into backfield. Having 5 marines not do something most of the game is a waste.

Your reasoning is not helping and you don't know what a melta bunker is (tac squad I listed, clarified for the uninformed).

I can see the point PraetorDave makes about the 'nilla marines. I do need to get up to speed when it come to the new rules and 'dexs! However, I like playing a specialized army. I was brought up through the ranks as a vanilla player in 2001 because "its the easiest army to play and grasp how the game works". I am considering building my own chapter based on an existing chapter. The reason for the ability to "switch" from one army to another is so I can proxy new things and not have to buy new minis right away. I understand people view space marines as cheap but unfortunately nothing is cheap when you are married with 5 (yes I said 5) children!

If anyone wants to donate mini's to the cause I am more than happy to accept! If you didn't read my intro I am a disabled veteran and my disabilities have had an extremely adverse effect on my life. I can no longer do any of the things I used to. Luckily a new gaming store opened up about 20 minutes from my house and they run regular games that I am looking into. They are supposed to have an "escalation" league that starts at 250 or 500 pts. and increases by 250 pts. each week until it tops out at 2000 pts.


ivangterrace, how would the Salamander Army fair in this setting? I have never played a heavy "fire" themed army before. Is Vulkan He'stan the reason I am seeing so many salamander conversions and army now? I want to try and push mysel to get better at modeling and painting which is why I am looking at conversions such as magnetizing my mini's and creating my own chapter. I was thinking about the "counts as" route because I'd hate to spend all this time and money to build an army I end up not enjoying to play! Like I said, if anyone has extra models and/or bits they can "donate" my way, awesome! If someone has mini's they are willing to sell fairly cheap (reasonably priced) or are looking to barter, I am open to that as well! Hahaha... gaming on a budget is killing me! This is why the escalation league looks so appealing right now, I would have several weeks to build a force!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Space Wolves can also be good for some versitility. Thunderwolves fill out close combat quite nicely, while Longfangs got range covered. The humble Grey Hunter Squad in a Razor is much more tactically flexible and cheaper than Vanillas running the same thing. Wolf Guards also give you ALOT of options. Character wise they're one of the best.

You will get some ire for using their rules tho, so be aware of that. However given all the proxy armies running around, there's nothing that disallows you from using your marine army with any of the codexes, as long as the equipment are correct.

Never really been a fan of the wolves miniatures?! I don't know, maybe if I did something with custom helmets and runes that could be pretty cool... hmmm... space wolves... hmmm...

Vulkan is nice because his power is balanced in what it does, it increases anti-infantry and anti-armor power in an army with vulkan in him. Unlike the other other ones which don't give you as balanced, in terms of what they do, rules.

As for your escalation league, its hard to take him sub 1k and 1750 is when his rule can meet its potential. Until then, you can use a librarian or a captain. A librarian with gate of infinity + whatever will help you get a key unit where it needs to without the need of mounting the libby in a transport. A captain will give your list something decent for a close combat element but a random powerfist dude can cause instant death to him and you would need to mount the captain in a transport to get him where he needs to.

Counts-as armies are cool, but there are two types of counts-as armies. 1. Is the guy like you, who makes his own chapter so he can do whatever he wants with them. 2. Is the guy who was playing chaos space marines, decided they sucked, and jumped ship to other marine codexes, mainly SW's and BA's, for a competitive advantage. Most people don't really mind guy #1 because there is a bit of a mutual respect for being creative enough to make your own chapter. People dislike guy #2 because he is more like a fair-weathered sports fan, and no one likes a fair-weathered sports fan.

Magnetizing infantry models are not fun because often their arms will droop down or just fall off. Most people I know including myself just have a collection of special weapons dudes. I have 8 meltagun guys, 4 flamer guys, and 2 plasmagun guys. I mainly use meltagunners and flamers but its nice to mix it up with a plasma dude every once in a while or having the ability to switch out weapons in a list. Even including special close combat weapons like power weapons, the effort for magnetizing such models is not worth it. Magnetizing a predator, or a razorback is worth the effort since they are easy to do, and only may do such conversions to vehicles like 10 times per army. Compared to magnetizing 60 marines who will look like they are extremely tired from carrying everything, 10 vehicles at the VERY MOST! Is cake. Heck, aside from predators, you don't even need to magnetize any of the other rhino-based vehicles, you can just leave them unglued the only effort is remembering to carry around the 2 or 3 loose parts.

I see there is a little bit of a discussion about space wolves, and I can say, as a space wolves player, they are not versatile. Their troop choice (blood claws suck and don't count) is closequarters only and there are armies that play the versatility/balanced army game a lot better than they do. They are superb at close combat, and like other marines when it comes to shooting elements. Asides from razorwolves (5 man grey hunters squads with a flamer + las/TLplas razorback transports), but no new player would want to bother playing such a boring army. Also, you need to create/buy 3rd party thunderwolf models which is kind of a turn off.

I recommend against magnetizing your Marines extensively to play them as loyalist or Chaos - I know a guy who's done this and half the game he's just picking up lost pieces and putting guys back together.

I would run with the standard Codex for now. Nobody will scoff at you for running with it, and it's a solid book all around. Also, as a returning player, it will be easier for you to pick up. And personally, I prefer the Marine codex to Space Wolves or what have you. I used to love playing my Space Wolves, but something about the new codex just doesn't feel right to me.

Grey hunters give you a little more bang for your buck, and their versatility comes from the fact that they actually perform decently well in close quarters just as well as their guns, which is something the more pricy Tactical Squad cannot claim (1 attack each means that most of the time the tact squads will loose combat because they cant hurt the enemy enough). Space Wolves, by looking at their ruleset, are good for drive-by shootings. Counter Attack means you should goat enemies into charging you, or face the wrath of rapid-firing bolters. Personally for doing good in both range and close quarters, I'd say they're one of the most versatile of the five types of SM troopers (BTs run at the enemy if they get shot, BAs are obviously CC geared, Chaos Space Marine are versatile, but will be caught off guard if they get charged, and the normal tact squads are rather subpar in combat skills than their fluff indicates).

I agree with Brother SRM on Vanilla being a good stepping stone though. Personally though, I would encourage you to try out one of the non-imperial codexes, since there's enough imperial players already.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Grey hunters give you a little more bang for your buck, and their versatility comes from the fact that they actually perform decently well in close quarters just as well as their guns, which is something the more pricy Tactical Squad cannot claim (1 attack each means that most of the time the tact squads will loose combat because they cant hurt the enemy enough). Space Wolves, by looking at their ruleset, are good for drive-by shootings. Counter Attack means you should goat enemies into charging you, or face the wrath of rapid-firing bolters. Personally for doing good in both range and close quarters, I'd say they're one of the most versatile of the five types of SM troopers (BTs run at the enemy if they get shot, BAs are obviously CC geared, Chaos Space Marine are versatile, but will be caught off guard if they get charged, and the normal tact squads are rather subpar in combat skills than their fluff indicates).

I agree with Brother SRM on Vanilla being a good stepping stone though. Personally though, I would encourage you to try out one of the non-imperial codexes, since there's enough imperial players already.

Grey hunters are good when it comes to versatility within 12 inches, but beyond that they get a 1 less bolter shot per guy and 1 less plasmagun shot per guy if one takes those. Lasplas razorbacks are okay but I have a harder time getting cover saves on my razorback than I probably would for a combat squad lascannon or a BT las + plas squad. Razorbacks can be silenced with one lucky hunter-killer missle or a random lascannon, a 5 man squad can take a few wounds before they are rendered combat ineffective (dedz1!)

ivangterrace wrote:Vulkan is nice because his power is balanced in what it does, it increases anti-infantry and anti-armor power in an army with vulkan in him. Unlike the other other ones which don't give you as balanced, in terms of what they do, rules.

As for your escalation league, its hard to take him sub 1k and 1750 is when his rule can meet its potential. Until then, you can use a librarian or a captain. A librarian with gate of infinity + whatever will help you get a key unit where it needs to without the need of mounting the libby in a transport. A captain will give your list something decent for a close combat element but a random powerfist dude can cause instant death to him and you would need to mount the captain in a transport to get him where he needs to.

Counts-as armies are cool, but there are two types of counts-as armies. 1. Is the guy like you, who makes his own chapter so he can do whatever he wants with them. 2. Is the guy who was playing chaos space marines, decided they sucked, and jumped ship to other marine codexes, mainly SW's and BA's, for a competitive advantage. Most people don't really mind guy #1 because there is a bit of a mutual respect for being creative enough to make your own chapter. People dislike guy #2 because he is more like a fair-weathered sports fan, and no one likes a fair-weathered sports fan.

Magnetizing infantry models are not fun because often their arms will droop down or just fall off. Most people I know including myself just have a collection of special weapons dudes. I have 8 meltagun guys, 4 flamer guys, and 2 plasmagun guys. I mainly use meltagunners and flamers but its nice to mix it up with a plasma dude every once in a while or having the ability to switch out weapons in a list. Even including special close combat weapons like power weapons, the effort for magnetizing such models is not worth it. Magnetizing a predator, or a razorback is worth the effort since they are easy to do, and only may do such conversions to vehicles like 10 times per army. Compared to magnetizing 60 marines who will look like they are extremely tired from carrying everything, 10 vehicles at the VERY MOST! Is cake. Heck, aside from predators, you don't even need to magnetize any of the other rhino-based vehicles, you can just leave them unglued the only effort is remembering to carry around the 2 or 3 loose parts.

I see there is a little bit of a discussion about space wolves, and I can say, as a space wolves player, they are not versatile. Their troop choice (blood claws suck and don't count) is closequarters only and there are armies that play the versatility/balanced army game a lot better than they do. They are superb at close combat, and like other marines when it comes to shooting elements. Asides from razorwolves (5 man grey hunters squads with a flamer + las/TLplas razorback transports), but no new player would want to bother playing such a boring army. Also, you need to create/buy 3rd party thunderwolf models which is kind of a turn off.

Ok, Vulkan is a bad ass as long as the points are there for you to benefit. What would you recommend for an escalation? Say I start with Pedro Cantor, can I bring Vulkan in as a second HQ choice later in the league or would they cancel each other out? I need to get my hands on some new Codex's! I am going to stay away from SW's as I have never really been a fan and from what you are saying they don't sound like they are for me. With regards to magnetizing, I'm gonna stay away unless it is a vehicle, dred, or maybe a Cptn. when I want to have multiple options. The main force with get what they get and be happy with it!

Brother SRM wrote:I recommend against magnetizing your Marines extensively to play them as loyalist or Chaos - I know a guy who's done this and half the game he's just picking up lost pieces and putting guys back together.

I would run with the standard Codex for now. Nobody will scoff at you for running with it, and it's a solid book all around. Also, as a returning player, it will be easier for you to pick up. And personally, I prefer the Marine codex to Space Wolves or what have you. I used to love playing my Space Wolves, but something about the new codex just doesn't feel right to me.

Thank you for your input. I am leaning that way just because I think this will make my adjusting to the new rules a little bit easier. Thanks for the info on the magnet s too!

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Grey hunters give you a little more bang for your buck, and their versatility comes from the fact that they actually perform decently well in close quarters just as well as their guns, which is something the more pricy Tactical Squad cannot claim (1 attack each means that most of the time the tact squads will loose combat because they cant hurt the enemy enough). Space Wolves, by looking at their ruleset, are good for drive-by shootings. Counter Attack means you should goat enemies into charging you, or face the wrath of rapid-firing bolters. Personally for doing good in both range and close quarters, I'd say they're one of the most versatile of the five types of SM troopers (BTs run at the enemy if they get shot, BAs are obviously CC geared, Chaos Space Marine are versatile, but will be caught off guard if they get charged, and the normal tact squads are rather subpar in combat skills than their fluff indicates).

I agree with Brother SRM on Vanilla being a good stepping stone though. Personally though, I would encourage you to try out one of the non-imperial codexes, since there's enough imperial players already.

What non-imperialist faction would you recommend aligning with?

ivangterrace wrote:Grey hunters are good when it comes to versatility within 12 inches, but beyond that they get a 1 less bolter shot per guy and 1 less plasmagun shot per guy if one takes those. Lasplas razorbacks are okay but I have a harder time getting cover saves on my razorback than I probably would for a combat squad lascannon or a BT las + plas squad. Razorbacks can be silenced with one lucky hunter-killer missle or a random lascannon, a 5 man squad can take a few wounds before they are rendered combat ineffective (dedz1!)

Couple more questions:

I am wanting to do something other than "Ultramarine Blue", would I get much opposition gaming if I run an alternate color scheme defining it as a successor?

I am waning to customize my marines with something similar to the GK bolters, would this be a problem?

I was also considering using Halberds or some other custom weapon to represent CC weapons instead of chain swords, what problems might I come across doing this?

My goal is to make some models who I think are cool but I can still game with without any major problems. I am not going to "max out" the individual mini's since I believe in WYSIWYG! I don't want to see some guy across the table have 10 guys with bolters slung on their sides, dual wielding CC weapons, Frag and Krak grenades on their belts, extra sniper rifle strapped across their backs, carrying a jump pack or having it on the base! WTF is that supposed to be!? I am basically planning on swapping out whatever the Codex says the mini should have for something that is comparable and that represents the weapon well. Would I be ok doing this?

Fallen_Veteran wrote:

ivangterrace wrote:Vulkan is nice because his power is balanced in what it does, it increases anti-infantry and anti-armor power in an army with vulkan in him. Unlike the other other ones which don't give you as balanced, in terms of what they do, rules.

As for your escalation league, its hard to take him sub 1k and 1750 is when his rule can meet its potential. Until then, you can use a librarian or a captain. A librarian with gate of infinity + whatever will help you get a key unit where it needs to without the need of mounting the libby in a transport. A captain will give your list something decent for a close combat element but a random powerfist dude can cause instant death to him and you would need to mount the captain in a transport to get him where he needs to.

Counts-as armies are cool, but there are two types of counts-as armies. 1. Is the guy like you, who makes his own chapter so he can do whatever he wants with them. 2. Is the guy who was playing chaos space marines, decided they sucked, and jumped ship to other marine codexes, mainly SW's and BA's, for a competitive advantage. Most people don't really mind guy #1 because there is a bit of a mutual respect for being creative enough to make your own chapter. People dislike guy #2 because he is more like a fair-weathered sports fan, and no one likes a fair-weathered sports fan.

Magnetizing infantry models are not fun because often their arms will droop down or just fall off. Most people I know including myself just have a collection of special weapons dudes. I have 8 meltagun guys, 4 flamer guys, and 2 plasmagun guys. I mainly use meltagunners and flamers but its nice to mix it up with a plasma dude every once in a while or having the ability to switch out weapons in a list. Even including special close combat weapons like power weapons, the effort for magnetizing such models is not worth it. Magnetizing a predator, or a razorback is worth the effort since they are easy to do, and only may do such conversions to vehicles like 10 times per army. Compared to magnetizing 60 marines who will look like they are extremely tired from carrying everything, 10 vehicles at the VERY MOST! Is cake. Heck, aside from predators, you don't even need to magnetize any of the other rhino-based vehicles, you can just leave them unglued the only effort is remembering to carry around the 2 or 3 loose parts.

I see there is a little bit of a discussion about space wolves, and I can say, as a space wolves player, they are not versatile. Their troop choice (blood claws suck and don't count) is closequarters only and there are armies that play the versatility/balanced army game a lot better than they do. They are superb at close combat, and like other marines when it comes to shooting elements. Asides from razorwolves (5 man grey hunters squads with a flamer + las/TLplas razorback transports), but no new player would want to bother playing such a boring army. Also, you need to create/buy 3rd party thunderwolf models which is kind of a turn off.

Ok, Vulkan is a bad ass as long as the points are there for you to benefit. What would you recommend for an escalation? Say I start with Pedro Cantor, can I bring Vulkan in as a second HQ choice later in the league or would they cancel each other out? I need to get my hands on some new Codex's! I am going to stay away from SW's as I have never really been a fan and from what you are saying they don't sound like they are for me. With regards to magnetizing, I'm gonna stay away unless it is a vehicle, dred, or maybe a Cptn. when I want to have multiple options. The main force with get what they get and be happy with it!

Brother SRM wrote:I recommend against magnetizing your Marines extensively to play them as loyalist or Chaos - I know a guy who's done this and half the game he's just picking up lost pieces and putting guys back together.

I would run with the standard Codex for now. Nobody will scoff at you for running with it, and it's a solid book all around. Also, as a returning player, it will be easier for you to pick up. And personally, I prefer the Marine codex to Space Wolves or what have you. I used to love playing my Space Wolves, but something about the new codex just doesn't feel right to me.

Thank you for your input. I am leaning that way just because I think this will make my adjusting to the new rules a little bit easier. Thanks for the info on the magnet s too!

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Grey hunters give you a little more bang for your buck, and their versatility comes from the fact that they actually perform decently well in close quarters just as well as their guns, which is something the more pricy Tactical Squad cannot claim (1 attack each means that most of the time the tact squads will loose combat because they cant hurt the enemy enough). Space Wolves, by looking at their ruleset, are good for drive-by shootings. Counter Attack means you should goat enemies into charging you, or face the wrath of rapid-firing bolters. Personally for doing good in both range and close quarters, I'd say they're one of the most versatile of the five types of SM troopers (BTs run at the enemy if they get shot, BAs are obviously CC geared, Chaos Space Marine are versatile, but will be caught off guard if they get charged, and the normal tact squads are rather subpar in combat skills than their fluff indicates).

I agree with Brother SRM on Vanilla being a good stepping stone though. Personally though, I would encourage you to try out one of the non-imperial codexes, since there's enough imperial players already.

What non-imperialist faction would you recommend aligning with?

ivangterrace wrote:Grey hunters are good when it comes to versatility within 12 inches, but beyond that they get a 1 less bolter shot per guy and 1 less plasmagun shot per guy if one takes those. Lasplas razorbacks are okay but I have a harder time getting cover saves on my razorback than I probably would for a combat squad lascannon or a BT las + plas squad. Razorbacks can be silenced with one lucky hunter-killer missle or a random lascannon, a 5 man squad can take a few wounds before they are rendered combat ineffective (dedz1!)

Couple more questions:

I am wanting to do something other than "Ultramarine Blue", would I get much opposition gaming if I run an alternate color scheme defining it as a successor?

I am waning to customize my marines with something similar to the GK bolters, would this be a problem?

I was also considering using Halberds or some other custom weapon to represent CC weapons instead of chain swords, what problems might I come across doing this?

My goal is to make some models who I think are cool but I can still game with without any major problems. I am not going to "max out" the individual mini's since I believe in WYSIWYG! I don't want to see some guy across the table have 10 guys with bolters slung on their sides, dual wielding CC weapons, Frag and Krak grenades on their belts, extra sniper rifle strapped across their backs, carrying a jump pack or having it on the base! WTF is that supposed to be!? I am basically planning on swapping out whatever the Codex says the mini should have for something that is comparable and that represents the weapon well. Would I be ok doing this?

With pedro, vulkan, and all the other chapter masters that change rules, their rules don't stack or cancel out, you get one or the other in exchange for combat tactics.

Paint scheme is all up to you, the only kind of critisism you should get is of the constructive variety. Those who strive in talking crap about how someone paints their army are gonna get a load of crap in their respective community. There are exceptions, like the hello kitty space marine chapter and the mcdonalds one, but those are obviously joking around.

Using the GK bolters and custom CCWs are okay, but the bolters may get confused with bolt pistols and the halbreds get mixed up with power weapons. So you will want to tell your opponent about these things before hand.

As for actual modelling, you don't need to model everything, but if you have incorrect wargear modelled, like a CCW + bolter on your tactical squad members, that might get a few confused stares. You can always magnetize backpacks with jetpacks so thats not a big issue. Perhaps you are getting a bit overambitious here? Seems like a lot to think about.