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Pretty strange list but I think this list will kick some serious ass..... k here it is all comments please

HQ:
Daemon Prince with wings and MOS/Lash (155)

Elite:
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)

Troops:
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor and TLB (8 Total KB) (263)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor and Combi Melta (8 Total KB) (268)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor and Combi Melta (8 Total KB) (268)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor and Combi Melta (8 Total KB) (268)

Fast Attack:
None

Heavy Support:
3 Oblitz (225)
3 Oblitz (225)

K the run down for tactics would be Oblitz in the back working with the prince to templete squads and if one oblit squad does the enough damage ill have 3 lascannons to pop a tank.....
For the Chosen I have a great option of outflanking or inflitrating (rarely ill inflitrate but if I ever do for whatever reason I can have 3 rhinos as shields for the KB rhinos) and outflanking if I know they will deploy in postions I can get their tanks, but im thinking most of the time deploying, just going 12 inch first time then smoke, turn 2 12 inch get out pop a tank.... for all 3 squads....
All the KB squad going up 12 (Smoke) till able to assualt while I have all this fire power hitting them and the Chosen will get out a turn before the KB hopefully popping 3 tanks and what the oblitz popped which would be give me tons of option to assualt.

Thanks comment please on improvements and throughts.... ;D

I think it looks fun. Remember that Chosen with a Rhino can't Infiltrate, although they can Outflank. I think fairly often you're going to want to just drive them straight at the enemy to blow up land raiders, battlewagons, or other important tanks, rather than wait for them to show up from Reserve. Outflanking can be a nice option against a defensive/shooty opponent, though.
Your general idea of rushing with the Rhinos isn't a bad one. Remember that you can use the front Rhinos to give cover saves to Rhinos behind as well, which lets you save the Smoke on the back Rhinos for a turn, unless your opponent has good shooty units able to move around to the side and get clear shots.

The list is going to be vulnerable in KP games against maneuverable shooty armies, but against more static ones (most IG, for example), you should still have a chance as long as you keep pushing with whatever of yours survives and makes it across the field.

You've spent 120pts on Extra Armor, which I don't think I can agree with. Extra armor adds 15pts to a 35pt transport, and only applies to 1 result on the damage table. It's not like 3rd ed when it was only 5pts, or 4th ed when every Penetrating hit ALSO Stunned the tank. I think it just costs too much to bother with, nowadays. For the cost of the extra armor and the extra TL bolter from the 2nd KB Rhino, you could take a Sorcerer with MOS & Lash and have him ride in one of the Rhinos with a KB squad. Or you could just take six more KBs for some more stamina.

I know what you mean but for a rhino most anti tank weapons only need to hit..... and I won't be moving lol. It would be very bad if 4 of my rhinos can't move. In this rhino rush list they are basiclly dead..... see what I mean? I don't know though I never tired it.

What do you mean only need to hit and you won't be moving?

If it's a Glance if he rolls a 1, 2, 3 or 5 you can still move. If he rolls a 4 or 6 he stops the Rhino. If it's a penetrating hit you can still move on a 1 or 3, are stopped on a 2, 4, 5 or 6.

Taking Extra armor only improves your odds from 4/6 to 5/6 on Glances, and 2/6 to 3/6 on Pens.

I guess just seems important to me because ive always had it ill try it for a game and see what happens.... any more comments/throughts?

Might also consider swapping some of the KBs for Plague Marines. They're not as hitty, but they're really durable, and can carry more meltaguns or plasma.

Drop all the crap Mannahnim said and get more Obliterators as not enough long ranged fire support. Then add a power weapon onto your Skull Champion; 5 power weapon attacks S5 I5 rule, while with a fist you're going marginal difference.

Dropping the fist would make his units helpless against a dreadnought. Especially going with KBs over PMs as your entire troop selection, you need those WS5 3A base fists.

How about this.....

HQ:
Daemon Prince with wings and MOS/Lash (155)

Elite:
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)

Troops:
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
6 Plague Marines with 2 plasma guns and a Plague Champ/Fist with a rihno (7 Total PM) (266)
6 Plague Marines with 2 plasma guns and a Plague Champ/Fist with a rihno (7 Total PM) (266)


Fast Attack:
None

Heavy Support:
2 Oblitz (150)
2 Oblitz (150)
2 Oblitz (150)


K the run down for tactics would be Oblitz in the back working with the prince to templete squads and if one oblit squad does the enough damage ill have lascannons to pop tanks.....
For the Chosen I have a great option of outflanking or inflitrating (rarely ill inflitrate but if I ever do for whatever reason I can have 3 rhinos as shields for the KB rhinos) and outflanking if I know they will deploy in postions I can get their tanks, but im thinking most of the time deploying, just going 12 inch first time then smoke, turn 2 12 inch get out pop a tank.... for all 3 squads....
All the KB squad going up 12 (Smoke) till able to assualt while I have all this fire power hitting them and the Chosen will get out a turn before the KB hopefully popping 3 tanks and what the oblitz popped which would be give me tons of option to assualt.
Plague rolling up... support the KB and later in the game go stand on an objective.

Mannahnin wrote:Dropping the fist would make his units helpless against a dreadnought. Especially going with KBs over PMs as your entire troop selection, you need those WS5 3A base fists.

I think people over rate power fists on walkers. Sure Berzekers have it better needing 3+ to hit and 3+ to glance but it's still 50/50 to penetrate, then if they get tied in combat it's 4+ to glance. Question is why the walker in combat with your troops, you know what it can do and it should be shot down as it's only armour 12 and more ranged fire power than power fists.

Mercer, at 2500 with as few ranged weapons as a Rhino Rush list packs, it's entirely possible to get stuch in with Walkers. Yes, regular fists aren't very good against them, but 50% more attacks, WS5, and S9 on the charge makes a world of difference.

CannedKhorne. I like the PMs, although I generally prefer Melta to plasma; melta gives you much better antitank, costs fewer points, and doesn't prevent you from charging if you fire it. Plasma's good as a terminator & monstrous creature counter. I'm torn on splitting the Oblits. Taking full squads of 3 gives you much better odds of getting a large number of hits from Plasmacannons on a bunched-up unit. Taking three units of 2, however, allows you to split fire at three different targets, which can be very important.

How about this?

Daemon Prince with wings and MOS/Lash (155)

5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with combi-plasma(185)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with combi-plasma(185)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with combi-plasma(185)

7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist in Rhino (8 Total KB) (243)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist in Rhino (8 Total KB) (243)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist in Rhino (8 Total KB) (243)
6 Plague Marines with 2 melta guns and a Plague Champ/Fist & combi-melta with a rhino (7 Total PM) (266)
6 Plague Marines with 2 melta guns and a Plague Champ/Fist & combi-melta with a rhino (7 Total PM) (266)

3 Oblitz (225)
2 Oblitz (150)
2 Oblitz (150)

2496

If we're talking abuot 2,500 points why is there a single Daemon Prince then? Princes come in pairs.

Not always. Sometimes you grab a single cheap(ish) HQ to save points for other stuff. A friend of mine had a good Ard Boyz list that was mostly just Fabius Bile, a bunch of squads of Enhanced CSMs in Rhinos, and Lesser Daemons. Ran like 9 scoring units, 5-6 Rhinos, and a ton of bodies.

Daemon Princes can get shot down fast on tables with poor terrain; if he knows that his local store has terrible terrain/no LOS-blocking stuff, it might make sense for him not to spend too much on DPs.

If the terrian is really that bad I can just use my rhinos for cover first turn...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about this.....

HQ:
Daemon Prince with wings and MOS/Lash (155)

Elite:
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)
5 chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino with extra armor (190)

Troops:
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
7 Khorne Bezerkers and a Skull Champion/Fist with a rhino with extra armor (8 Total KB) (258)
6 Plague Marines with 2 meltaguns and a Plague Champ/Fist with a rihno with extra armor (7 Total PM) (271)
6 Plague Marines with 2 meltaguns and a Plague Champ/Fist with a rihno with extra armor (7 Total PM) (271)

Fast Attack:
None

Heavy Support:
2 Oblitz (150)
2 Oblitz (150)
2 Oblitz (150)

2491 total points

Mannahnin wrote:Not always. Sometimes you grab a single cheap(ish) HQ to save points for other stuff. A friend of mine had a good Ard Boyz list that was mostly just Fabius Bile, a bunch of squads of Enhanced CSMs in Rhinos, and Lesser Daemons. Ran like 9 scoring units, 5-6 Rhinos, and a ton of bodies.

Daemon Princes can get shot down fast on tables with poor terrain; if he knows that his local store has terrible terrain/no LOS-blocking stuff, it might make sense for him not to spend too much on DPs.

Er, yeah. It's not about having cheap HQs to spent on other stuff but it's target saturation and multiple threats. You have a single monstrous it's going to get shot, at lot. See Fabius is fine because he's tucked in a unit, but my point is a single big target will get shot.

No terrain? Firstly you're playing on the wrong board and Princes should hide behind Rhinos.

Mercer, my point is that at 2500pts, two Daemon Princes no longer constitutes target saturation. A fair number of opponents will have enough guns to kill them both in a similar length of time to killing one DP at 1500 or 1750.

I agree completely that insufficient terrain is bad, but sometimes it happens. And a Prince can't hide completely behind a Rhino; he can just get a cover save.

CK- If you're in love with the Extra Armor, that's not a bad list. Since you're at 2491 I'd seriously consider dropping 1 Berserker, which would leave one squad at only 7 models, but give you enough points for combi-weapons on three Rhinos AND leave you at 2500 exactly.

I ran a list in 'Ard Boyz 08 that saw me get third place in my local spot, but I was an idiot and for somer reason was crazy about Emperor's Children(who rock at 1850, not so much at 2500) and ran them at the sem-finals and got trashed. Here was the list:

HQ

Kharn - 165

DP w/ MoT, Wings, Warptime, Winds of Chaos, 185 (pretend he's Khornate >_> )

Greater Daemon

Troops

Berzerkers x10, Champ w/ PW, Melta Bombs, Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher - x5 squads - 1475

Heavy Support

x2 Vindicators w/ Havoc launchers - 280

Land Raider w/ Havoc Launcher (Kharn rides in the LR by himself <^_^&gt


Total: 2460

I had added in something extra, but I don't remember. Maybe extra armor on the vindis. The list did really well and was a blast to play.

I say you want either 2 Daemon princes or 0 Daemon Princes and 1-2 Sorcerors instead. Daemon Princes can/will get shot but NINE rhinos on the table, and six Oblits as well, losing 2 Daemon Princes on T1 means that 60 assault Marines are a lot closer to the enemy.

OP: You've got to dump all that extra armor. I can't remember if Chaos is costed differently, but I'm pretty sure that's 120 points that on average is doing nothing for your army. You can toss the extra armor and a single Plague Marine to add another Lash Prince or 2 more Oblits.