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I play nids, and though I'm not one to beg I think I need some advice. In our FLGS we have an almost undefeated IG player. Now I'm not angry at either losing or drawing since I do enjoy the challenge, it's just...frustrating that I can't seem to get the win.

I have tried a few different lists, all balanced mind you since I don't tailor, but nothing seems to work. I am hoping to get a few ideas on things that maybe I have missed or discarded out of hand. Generally he runs full mech (2 CCS plasma w/ chimeras, 2 vendettas with suicide melta and flamer PCS, 2 manticores, Infantry squads w/ flamers in chimeras and as many heavy weapons teams as he can fit (generally 2x3 lascannon teams and 1x3 ML team). This is at 1500pts. After that it gets worse with him adding more manticores, vendettas and heavy weapons teams.

Lately he has been running more infantry based lists with the manticores, vendettas and HWT still there, but incorporating Straken with a massive blob armed with power weapons. Different kind of deal but just as tough.

I should also mention he does play tactically very well. Rarely does he make a mistake and he also very quickly capitalises on any his opponents make.

So does anyone have any useful ideas on what I could bring to the table (in a balanced list) that could do well? I have been running a very solid 2850pt list that can handle a lot of things, but it seems IG isn't one of them. My list is:

Prime
Regen
Adrenal Glands
Lashwhips and bonesword
Deathspitter

Prime
Regen
dual boneswords
Deathspitter

3x HG
3xHG
10x ymgarls

Tervigon w/ catalyst
10x gaunts
20x genestealers w/ poison

T-fex
T-fex

This list got me the closest to a win that I have ever had due to me being in "the zone" and playing almost everything perfectly. Proper deployment, spacing, movement and target priority. An extremely well fought game on both sides. But anyways...I have tried running 3 trygons, using venomthropes, a Swarmlord list and a spod based list. All no luck. Is there anything that I may have missed...a unit or a way to use a unit that could be game changing?

Against IG is irpontant to destroy their vesicles so you should use nid pods (dont remenber name) and put there zoanthropes with warp blast and drop them to kill vesicles. Biovores are good against infantry (naturally) so use them to kill few guardsman. Against IG use masses of gaunts and venonthropes to keep them alive and CF to back them. Mawloc could be good thing too. Genestealers to flank attacks. There is few that should help but remember that its really hard to win against 40k army number 1 with nids wich are not as strong army.

I have had good luck with my generic T6 build vs guard:

Tyrant - hive commander, venom cannon, leech, paroxysm
Tervigon - Cluster spines, adrenal, toxin, catalyst

Tervigon - Cluster spines, adrenal, toxin, catalyst
10 termagaunts
Tervigon - Cluster spines, adrenal, toxin, catalyst
10 termagaunts
Tervigon - Cluster spines, adrenal, toxin, catalyst
10 termagaunts

Trygon - adrenal
Trygon - adrenal
1990pts

I outflank a tervigon and bum rush with everything else. I will deep strike the trygons occasionally, it is dependant on the mission and opponent.
It works well against most builds.
Be very diligent in spacing your units exactly 2" from any other model. You need to be as wide and long as you can to minimize the template damage until you get stuck in.
I win a lot with that build.

Chanllenge him to a 25 point game, your Ymgarl stealer should kill his 5 guardsmen easily.

Chanllenge him to a 25 point game, your Ymgarl stealer should kill his 5 guardsmen easily.

Lol

Honestly guard are rough to fight with bugs, esp mech.

Yargarbl's are a good choice, target saturation with "semi dangerous" gaunts isn't a bad idea either.

I dont like the one big genestealer squad, I usually go with multiple 8 man squads, for 2 reasons
-if you get first turn you can infiltrate and first turn assault with them if you can put 8 guys out of LOS (not too hard)
-I like outflanking both squads

The real problem is that you pop a transport then eat at least 1 turn of close range shooting almost every time, if you can get your hive guard out of LOS so he cant retaliate you can destroy alot of vehicles, your game hinges on doing just that.

Did you see this list, with notes about how to use it?

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/01/mahus-take-on-nids/

Mahu is an excellent player who posts here sometimes. Basically his concept is to let go of the tyrannofexen and most of the tervigons, add a gargoyle screen and emphasize the faster/fleeting units, and equip everything so that it can hurt vehicles.

Everything moving really fast and swarming those tanks in turns 2-3 sounds to me like it would work against mech IG.

Lukus83 wrote:I should also mention he does play tactically very well. Rarely does he make a mistake and he also very quickly capitalises on any his opponents make.

So does anyone have any useful ideas on what I could bring to the table (in a balanced list) that could do well?

What you said right here is key. It sounds like this person is a very solid player, which a strong understanding of Tactics and Strategy. I bet he could play Necrons and stomp people at your FLGS.

Take some time and look at your list, it can't hurt to make it a bit more efficient. Don't view that as the end-all be-all. Tweaking a list is not the solution to making your game better.

If you want to elevate your game, you need to increase your overall knowledge of the game. If you like to research online, look up strategy and tactics guides on youtube. A guy named Fritz has a bunch of really good suggestions for marines, eldar and necrons -- and the strategies he talks about are not army specific.

When playing the IG player, ask him the following questions after a game.
* How did you think I did compared to the last time we played?
* What did I do right?
* What would you have done differently if you were me?
* What caused you the most trouble this game?
Asking questions like this, and listening to the answers, will make you a better player.

Flavius: thats how I played already, nice that someone made a big thing about it.

I run tons of gargoyles, with outflanking stealears to cut down the edges of the map giving my oppponent very limited options.
However I have very limited experience fighting mech guard.

Lukus83 wrote:
Prime
Regen
Adrenal Glands
Lashwhips and bonesword
Deathspitter

Prime
Regen
dual boneswords
Deathspitter

3x HG
3xHG
10x ymgarls

Tervigon w/ catalyst
10x gaunts
20x genestealers w/ poison

T-fex
T-fex

This list got me the closest to a win that I have ever had due to me being in "the zone" and playing almost everything perfectly. Proper deployment, spacing, movement and target priority. An extremely well fought game on both sides. But anyways...I have tried running 3 trygons, using venomthropes, a Swarmlord list and a spod based list. All no luck. Is there anything that I may have missed...a unit or a way to use a unit that could be game changing?

So, I have a large collection of 'Nids I've played a couple times and an even larger collection of IG I play often, so I'll give my .02 USD.:

I have to question whether you're spending too many points on your HQs; specifically on regen. Is regen on a three wound model really worth it? I'm really curious. Usually if I consider it on my nids, it's on one of the 6 wound guys.

Also, I feel as though if you're doing Tervigons, you need at least two, preferably three. You could burn that first one out, or it could get lascannoned to death before it does anything really worthwhile.

Hive Guard seem to be the really trendy thing right now, so I'd say you're good there. Make sure to keep them in cover as much as possible.

Ymgarls are kind of cool, though I typically prefer regular genestealers over them.

Lastly, I unfortunately have little experience with the T-fexes. I'm more of a Trygon kind of person, I guess.

As far as Guard goes, I'm typically reluctant to post a categorized list of my biggest fears out in the open for people to see, but here goes:
- Alternate deployment styles. Unless you're being y, there are few forms of protection the IG have against deep strike and outflank. OOTF is about the only one, and that one can sometimes help your opponent rather than hurt them. Witty deployment is another. The reason why I fear these things is that my best turns are the ones in which that I can shoot you and you can't do anything about it. By coming in on the side next to me, you've cut the amount of time I can shoot at you without recourse in half, if not more. Trygons are terrifying because of what's going to come out of the hole next to them. I've actually sacrificed a Trygon by DSing him out inches from the opponent just so that everything else in reserve can charge out claws first. Plus then the opponent has to dedicate all their AP2/3 to killing the monstrosity in front of them next turn else he'll be in trouble.
- Melee combat. My vehicles are going to get shredded by about anything if it gets into melee with them. Even gaunts with adrenal glans can screw up a Basilisk. Genestealers can destroy vehicles with surprising ability, even at just S4. (You'll probably realize I am in love with 'stealers.)
- Wasting a power blob. One of the biggest fears I have is blowing a power blob on something not worth it. An example of this would be a large squad of hormagaunts chomping up a power blob. The power weapons are about useless and your squad would leave them too weak to do much else.
- Venomthropes. Venomthropes are scary. Ordinance barrage? Well, Mr. Thrope gets cover due to a special rule, not due to LOS, so he and his friends get that 5+ cover save no matter how many Basilisks or Manticores you have. Granted, the natural response would be to target the Venomthrope, but the Venomthrope would have a cover save anyway as well.

Those are just a few things that come to mind. I was going to post a list of what I know works well against Mech CSM, but I don't appear to have it saved at work.

Mustela wrote:Chanllenge him to a 25 point game, your Ymgarl stealer should kill his 5 guardsmen easily.

Not if he brings a Rough rider and a RR sarge.

As Guard my biggest fear from the tyranids are those large multi wound MCs. They kill tanks in CC and are very hard to take down if you manage to sneak them through cover.

So, your opponent brings guard lists which are very unfocused. Part-mech, part-infantry, part-aircav, part-artillery, etc. These kinds of lists are difficult to play, and have a fatal weakness in their lack of redundancy.

What I would HIGHLY suggest is that you move away from shiny bugs that soak up lots of points and instead move towards lots of little bugs that can reasonably handle most stuff. If you hit him with a horde, and those hordes can also crack rear AV10, he's going to be in a world of hurt. Bring some zoanthropes or something for some ranged anti-tank, and focus your killing power only on that which is most offensive to your list, and he's going to have a hard time keeping the best parts of his army (relative to yours) alive. If the rest of your force has balanced killing power, you should be able to slowly roll him up.

The best thing to do against a solid player with a so-so list is to be a solid player with a great list. We can give you advice about your list here, but we'd really need to see battle reports to critique your fieldcraft.

Actually Ailaros, zoans are not good for this kind of list.
hive guard are S8, fire twice, and have a good chance of blowing any of those vehicles away, with zoans you are paying more points for shorter ranged, single shots.

they do get a great invulnerable save though, so maybe dropping one of the HQ's and hive guard for a squad of zoans could soak a ton of his instant-deathing fire if you roll well

Drop one prime drop the death spitter on the other for devourers.

Drop one hive guard from each unit. 3 is just overkill.

drop the t fexen for Trygons.

drop the big unit of genestealers for two units of 7. 20 is overkill.

add gargs with adrenal and Swarmlord.

A lot of different advice.

Labmouse42 your post was the kind of thing I was looking for. I probably wasn't clear enough in the oringinal post, but basically I'm looking at ways to improve in general, not just the list.

I have been putting off a horde list just because it takes so long to play a game. But I do happen to believe that they are one of the stronger builds nids have. Will put together a fast 1850pt list and see how it does. Thanks to all who responded.

What is the scariest thing in his army luke?
Dont tell me everything, there must be something that messes you up the most.

I'm looking at ways to improve in general, not just the list.

Play, play and play.

Experience is almost everything. Make an objective analysis after each game, how did your army perform, what did you expect and what happened.

And, play the mission. Have a clear plan when you will be where and predict how the battle will be fought from your opponent to intercept his plans.

Dont rely on dice, they can betray you. Use terrain, good playing with distances and local superiority instead.
In killpoint missions dont try to kill as much as possible, but dont lose killpoints.
In objective missions dont rush on the objectives. A game has 5-7 turns, it is sufficient to be on the objective turn 5 with a backup unit behind for turn 6-7.
And 1 objective is enough to win if the enemy has none (due to contested status or empty status)

As a tyranid I would give you a particular advice: Make sure you win close combats in 2 phases, not in one phase. So you will be unlocked in your turn and avoid unnecessary casualties in the enemy shooting phase.