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I am just curious how things have been played since the last time this was posted (November). The tournament I played ruled the Valkyrie/Vendetta as moving cruising speed to enter the table edge i.e. only firing one weapon. Some players didn't mind, others disagreed.

Has this ever been FAQ'ed directly to GW?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/328041.page#2120103

Have a look at the new BRB FAQ; if the vehicle does not make it entirely onto the board, it is destroyed.

Agreed with Nos.

A Valk/Vendetta is free to move at combat speed if it so chooses to allow it to fire all of it's weapons. However, since it is so large, it is immediately destroyed.

If you want your Valk/Vendetta not to suicide immediately, you have to move over 6" and are restricted to firing 1 weapon.

It sucks, yes. But, that's part of the disadvantages to reserving things. Much like not being able to use abilities that require "at the start of the turn" when a unit is in reserves.

Yup. Vendettas are still awesome anyway, but this makes them a little less awesome. Actually makes Valkyries with missile pods a little better by comparison, too.

DakkaDakka wrote:

The FAQ says the entire vehicle has to get onto the table.

I know some folks have been comfortable hanging tails or wings over the edge, but I don't think that's ever been the intent of the rules, and the new (November) FAQ ruling seems indicative.

The base itself is about five inches long--slightly less. 4.75?

Mannahnin wrote:I know some folks have been comfortable hanging tails or wings over the edge, but I don't think that's ever been the intent of the rules, and the new (November) FAQ ruling seems indicative.

This has always bugged me. At the risk of reminding people of particular picture of a particular hammer and ruler, I suggest that I have an end table at my apartment. Upon this end table, the base of a lamp rests firmly. I wouldn't want it to break after all. However, the 'footprint' of the lampshade passes beyond the edge of the table, hanging, in places, directly above carpet. So then is the lamp on the table or is it not?

According to GW, that ruler is not on the table, and neither is the lamp you refer to.

Remember that in wargaming-world, the table edge is the functional end of the world. Units are not meant to be straddling it.

Mannahnin wrote:Remember that in wargaming-wo7rld, the table edge is the functional end of the world. Units are not meant to be straddling it.

That's a good point.

DakkaDakka wrote:

I hope my comments are taken lightly, especially since I try to go with the flow. I'm also indifferent seeings how a good general can work around most restrictions, as the general award at the tournament I played at went to a guard player w/ 3 jets.
The main reason why I was asking was to see the overall consensus, thus asking if it has ever specifically be FAQ'ed.

One player has told me a landraider can work around this type of rule by entering sideways. Another complained that the new Eldar vehicle is similar, but shorter and that it wasn't fair. I myself was curious as to if a vendetta was modified (tail section shortenned, nose section shortenned etc.) would that be a cheesy work around. What if you said you measured from the front of the base and made your model to where the base was at the rear of the model?
I appreciate your input, and so far I'm walking away supporting the cruising speed (one weapon). But the way it seems most gray areas are handled, it would be kind of nice to have it FAQ'ed directly...?

Che-Vito wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:The FAQ says the entire vehicle has to get onto the table.

I know some folks have been comfortable hanging tails or wings over the edge, but I don't think that's ever been the intent of the rules, and the new (November) FAQ ruling seems indicative.

Well the base fits on, and nothing is on the table and over the edge.

But you don't determine where a skimmer is by its' base, but by where the model is. That's been consistent for the last three editions. The Valk/Vendetta has some extra rules relating to its base since it's so big, but you still always measure to and from the skimmer itself.

Che-Vito wrote:By the argument you present, an opponent who had a vehicle at the edge of the board, with the gun barrel pointing off the board, and the barrel hanging over the edge, would be informed by you that his vehicle was "destroyed".

No, because the FAQ ruling only destroys vehicles which fail to completely enter the table, coming on from Reserve. Units which are already on the table simply are unable to move off of it/overlap the edge. Pretend the table edge is an impassible vertical wall infinitely high; just make sure every part of the model is over the table.

Che-Vito wrote:Baneblade variants would always have to enter the board and pivot sideways, etc. etc.
It just doesn't stay afloat guys.

It would be nice if they'd issue some additional clarifications for really big vehicles. As it is my Land Raider has to move over 6" or move on diagonally, with limited firing arcs. Just the way it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:I hope my comments are taken lightly, especially since I try to go with the flow. I'm also indifferent seeings how a good general can work around most restrictions, as the general award at the tournament I played at went to a guard player w/ 3 jets.

Agreed!

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:The main reason why I was asking was to see the overall consensus, thus asking if it has ever specifically be FAQ'ed.

The FAQ was updated in November and this ruling was just added.

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:One player has told me a landraider can work around this type of rule by entering sideways. Another complained that the new Eldar vehicle is similar, but shorter and that it wasn't fair.

That's unfortunately the consequence of GW prioritizing models over rules, and not putting as much effort as we'd like into those rules.

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:I myself was curious as to if a vendetta was modified (tail section shortenned, nose section shortenned etc.) would that be a cheesy work around. What if you said you measured from the front of the base and made your model to where the base was at the rear of the model?...?

I believe at this point both of those would constitute Modeling For Advantage, which is technically legal, but banned by many tournaments. Many players who are aware of the FAQ would likely ask you to play the model as if it were the normal dimensions.

Could the long vehicle just move on sideways? There is nothing in vehicle movement that seems to prevent moving sideways, backwards, etc. Of course it does limit firing arcs and exposes softer armor....

Yes, that's my understanding. Vehicles follow the normal rules for movement except where specifically exempted. So coming on sideways or at an angle should be fine, as long as the whole vehicle gets onto/over the table.

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:I hope my comments are taken lightly, especially since I try to go with the flow. I'm also indifferent seeings how a good general can work around most restrictions, as the general award at the tournament I played at went to a guard player w/ 3 jets.
The main reason why I was asking was to see the overall consensus, thus asking if it has ever specifically be FAQ'ed.

One player has told me a landraider can work around this type of rule by entering sideways. Another complained that the new Eldar vehicle is similar, but shorter and that it wasn't fair. I myself was curious as to if a vendetta was modified (tail section shortenned, nose section shortenned etc.) would that be a cheesy work around. What if you said you measured from the front of the base and made your model to where the base was at the rear of the model?
I appreciate your input, and so far I'm walking away supporting the cruising speed (one weapon). But the way it seems most gray areas are handled, it would be kind of nice to have it FAQ'ed directly...?

It has been FAQed. If the vehicle isn't completely on the table, it gets destroyed.

If people complain about having to come on at full speed, or that their vehicle is too large and so on, they should not leave it in reserve.

Or use house rules, if people agree.

Most people would consider a chibified vehicle to be modelling for advantage.

How wide is the Valk? Could you move on 6" and pivot 90 degrees and be on the table entirely?

I believe you can get it onto the table when moving 6" with a 45 degree (or there abouts) pivot.

I'd say it's impossible to get a valk on the table in 6"...

cough why reserve and waste the scout move anyway

Outflank a scoring unit and kill some stuff with rear armor shots?

Wait, so the base doesn't count? Oh dear.

The scout move is definately the saving grace for this dilema.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:I hope my comments are taken lightly, especially since I try to go with the flow. I'm also indifferent seeings how a good general can work around most restrictions, as the general award at the tournament I played at went to a guard player w/ 3 jets.
The main reason why I was asking was to see the overall consensus, thus asking if it has ever specifically be FAQ'ed.

One player has told me a landraider can work around this type of rule by entering sideways. Another complained that the new Eldar vehicle is similar, but shorter and that it wasn't fair. I myself was curious as to if a vendetta was modified (tail section shortenned, nose section shortenned etc.) would that be a cheesy work around. What if you said you measured from the front of the base and made your model to where the base was at the rear of the model?
I appreciate your input, and so far I'm walking away supporting the cruising speed (one weapon). But the way it seems most gray areas are handled, it would be kind of nice to have it FAQ'ed directly...?

It has been FAQed. If the vehicle isn't completely on the table, it gets destroyed.

If people complain about having to come on at full speed, or that their vehicle is too large and so on, they should not leave it in reserve.

Or use house rules, if people agree.

Most people would consider a chibified vehicle to be modelling for advantage.

This actually came up for an Apoc game we had this weekend. We were all definitely in agreement (hell, the Vendetta owner argued FOR the Vendetta footprint not being its base, but the entire model) that everything needs to come on and that things that come from reserve need to move on. One problem showed itself though, in Apoc you may en up in a situation where you as the owner of the model does not really choose to put it in SR. I realise that it can be considered part of what you need to consider in terms of tactics and deployment, however there is no way a Baneblade can be kept in reserve since it's more than 6' no matter which way you put it. In essense, any Baneblade that is kept in SR is automatically always destroyed since they are also unable to move more than 6' being Super-Heavies.

We just houseruled that if they were kept in reserve we'd allow them to move the required distance to be completely on the board. Was the easiest solution, and it never came up since everything got deployed at the start anyway

It's a tricky issue though.

What a pain, I used to love coming on the side of the board and using the lascannons to fry predators and stuff. Oh well.

You can still shoot one of them, remember. Still quite good against side armor, plus you can disembark a squad to do quite a bit more damage.

Also, Valkyries with missile pods don't care about this and still work to full effect.

Yeah. Might have to start my Vendetta on the board. At least I can scout move for that 4+

Boomstikk wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Tharbickmonoploid wrote:I hope my comments are taken lightly, especially since I try to go with the flow. I'm also indifferent seeings how a good general can work around most restrictions, as the general award at the tournament I played at went to a guard player w/ 3 jets.
The main reason why I was asking was to see the overall consensus, thus asking if it has ever specifically be FAQ'ed.

One player has told me a landraider can work around this type of rule by entering sideways. Another complained that the new Eldar vehicle is similar, but shorter and that it wasn't fair. I myself was curious as to if a vendetta was modified (tail section shortenned, nose section shortenned etc.) would that be a cheesy work around. What if you said you measured from the front of the base and made your model to where the base was at the rear of the model?
I appreciate your input, and so far I'm walking away supporting the cruising speed (one weapon). But the way it seems most gray areas are handled, it would be kind of nice to have it FAQ'ed directly...?

It has been FAQed. If the vehicle isn't completely on the table, it gets destroyed.

If people complain about having to come on at full speed, or that their vehicle is too large and so on, they should not leave it in reserve.

Or use house rules, if people agree.

Most people would consider a chibified vehicle to be modelling for advantage.

This actually came up for an Apoc game we had this weekend. We were all definitely in agreement (hell, the Vendetta owner argued FOR the Vendetta footprint not being its base, but the entire model) that everything needs to come on and that things that come from reserve need to move on. One problem showed itself though, in Apoc you may en up in a situation where you as the owner of the model does not really choose to put it in SR. I realise that it can be considered part of what you need to consider in terms of tactics and deployment, however there is no way a Baneblade can be kept in reserve since it's more than 6' no matter which way you put it. In essense, any Baneblade that is kept in SR is automatically always destroyed since they are also unable to move more than 6' being Super-Heavies.

We just houseruled that if they were kept in reserve we'd allow them to move the required distance to be completely on the board. Was the easiest solution, and it never came up since everything got deployed at the start anyway

It's a tricky issue though.

Apocalypse isn't 40K. I've never played Apoc or read the rules, however as it is a separate game it is entirely reasonable to have different rules.

Well, admittedly, Apoc is supposed to function as a supplement to 40k. And it is kind of ridiculous that Baneblades are not able to legally enter the table from reserve.