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I was reading the Ultramarines books and I was wondering something. In the books the two marines are cast out on a death oath and they run into a few renegade marines. All these marines fight Chaos but have been cast out. The Chaos Marines codex mentions that sometimes only small groups of marines change over or that a company might be off on mission when the rest of the chapter turns to Chaos. What I was wondering is what happens to Marines who might have disgraced their Chapter but are still loyal and/or Marines whose Cahpter turned to Chaos but they are loyal. Are they turned over to the Inquisition? Are they killed? I am curious because I was thinking of making a Chapter (for painting and fun, not play) of these Marines who by serving in dangerous campaigns prove themselves true to the Imperium and can maybe regain their status/ honor.

Typically a disgraced Chapter will be sent on a Penitent Crusade. If a lone company remained loyal while the rest of the Chapter turned however could be problematic. Afterall, could they truly be trusted? They might face years of screening, they may have all access to the Chapter's assets denied (assuming any are left by the rogue elements of the Chapter) so that, whilst they are not executed to be safe, are no longer able to function as a Chapter and replace losses, dooming them to a slow extinction.

Normally, this happens alot, the ousted marines have some sort of action they must perform the absolve themselves. both chapters and individual marines may do this. occasionally, this is self imposed.


in the case of a Chapter's loyalty being questioned: if the transgression was realitivly minor/the Chapter is important, the Inquisition will say what they must do to prove their Loyality.

on occasion, the Chapter may belive the accusation to be unfair and won't perform the action and they will be caught between the IoM and Chaos. Chapters in this position often go into the EoT and throw themselves into a hopeless campaign against Chaos and are destroyed.


a chapter that has gone Renagade will go to the EoT or the eastern fringe to carve out their own little empire. they may not serve chaos, but they have cast aside their Oaths to the Emperor and are out for themselves. usually, those who settle in the Eye serve chaos, those who head to the fringe are out for other purposes.

Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader wrote:Loss is acceptable. Failure is not.

Marneus Calgar, Lord Macragge wrote:The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.

It's kind of unusual for a Space Marine to screw up and survive. Minor infractions might be punished by anything from a flogging to reflective prayer. A serious failure in the service of the chapter would be tantamount to failing the Emperor, which is Really Bad. One would probably be mindscrubbed and reduced to a servitor; that's what the Black Templars do. Or they might be embarked on a quest that means almost certain death, like in the Ultramarines series. Really, the Ultramarines seem like the nicest guys of the lot.

The Lamenters and the Mantis Warriors were sent on 100-year penitent crusades after they sided with the Astral Claws in the Badab War; already decimated and unable to recruit, both chapters will be facing extinction by the end of their terms.

Such a situation would make a great theme for an original chapter. A loyalist company of a renegade chapter could be paroled under those terms; but only, I think, if the renegades had already been purged. Otherwise the local Inquisitor will be sporting a lot of new combat servitors all of a sudden.

I would imagine that a lone marine or a small group of marines could join the Deathwatch as a Black Shield (basically, a marine that shows up at the Deathwatch's front porch with nothing identifying where the marine came from). But a full company might be a bit much.

Background for the Sanguinor mentions 12 blood angels being sent to assault the Night Lords battle barge Terrorclaw and kill it's commander as "penance for unrecorded transgressions" (and all would have died if the Sanguinor hadn't jumped in)
The hint just a bit that Dante may have been the Sergeant in charge and sole survivor

Thanks for the info, I was really curious about this. Even though they wouldn't actually be put into an ad hoc, "penitence" chapter in the 40K universe, would it still maybe work for a fluff, fun Chapter? If so, what would it look like? Would they be independent or under the control of the Inquisition?

No, the Inquisition never takes control of any Space Marines.


The GKs, technically, are still an independent chapter of marines and retain their autonomy. of course they work hand in hand with the Ordo Malleus and won't ever contradict each other, but the Grand Masters decide where and when to deploy their forces to act upon the information the Ordo provides.

the Death Watch isn't a chapter, but a bunch of marines that are loaned to the Ordo Xenos. They take a temporary Oath of Loyality to the Ordo Xenos when they join for the set period of time, but they can't be forced to serve past that. Black Shields join permantely and form the hardened core of Deathwatch veterans.

the secondary purpose of the Deathwatch is to disemanate their vast knowledge of fighting the Alien among the different chapters. Marine comes back, teaches his brothers how to fight Tyranids...

Even in disgrace, I don't think that Astartes would just submit to the rule of an Inquisitor. The "Black Shields" are an interesting concept, although Deathwatch seems to be implying that they are penitent Fallen Dark Angels.

However, if you like the idea of a group disgraced Marines seeking redemption I certainly encourage you to develop the idea. An ad hoc warband or crusade made up of exiles from different chapters, who have come together in search of a final glorious battle/redemption in death is not unthinkable. Same goes for "final loyal survivors of a renegade chapter."


Dawn of War spoiler

Grey Templar wrote:the Death Watch isn't a chapter

According to FFG, technically the Death Watch is a chapter - albeit one with a rotating membership and no recruiting worlds.

Or in other words, the Deathwatch doesn't have a geneseed pool, and it doesn't look for normal humans to turn into recruits, and the vast majority of its members are only present on a temporary basis. But it is listed on the rolls as the Deathwatch Chapter.

The "Black Shields" are an interesting concept, although Deathwatch seems to be implying that they are penitent Fallen Dark Angels.

Not really. The only implication is that they're marines who for one reason or another want to cut themselves off from their past. The idea of a "Black Shield" doesn't necessarily refer to the black armor that the Dark Angels originally wore. It's most likely a reference to a medieval practice in which a knight would cover his heraldry (often displayed on his shield) when he didn't want to be recognized. The knight was then refered to as a black knight. Similarly, a Black Shield covers his old heraldry and is not questioned regarding who he was and what he did before he joined the Deathwatch.

Now of course it's entirely possible that FFG is completely oblivious to the old medieval practice and really does intend that the Black Shields are Fallen. But then I have to ask -

- Why are those who fell due to the siren call of Chaos rejoining the Imperium by taking up the fight against the Xeno instead of Chaos?
- Why haven't the Dark Angels figured out over the last ten thousand years that some of those whom they're earnestly hunting throughout the stars have joined the Deathwatch instead? And what's going to happen when the Dark Angels do figure it out?

All in all, I find it rather unlikely that they're former Fallen.

Yeah, wasn't thinking. Saying they are ALL Fallen would be quite a stretch, or even most of them. However, the one who rose to Watch Commander and just happened to meet his demise without leaving a body just before the Dark Angels arrived...?

Anyway, I agree that it is more of a nod to the old tradition of knights going incognito. Although the version I was familiar with was knights of the round table adopting the white shields of unfledged knights... but that was Arthurian romance, and probably symbolic.

Grey Templar wrote:No, the Inquisition never takes control of any Space Marines.

An Inquisitor wields the power of the Emperor and can demand anything from a member of the Imperium, even a High Lord of Terra couldn't refuse unless they had good reason. Now an Inquisitor might not demand a Chapter to obey them, they would make a tactful request for assistance first from the Chapter Master but effectively would be in control.

Unless your the Sons of Malice who eat Inquisitors.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, the Inquisition never takes control of any Space Marines.

An Inquisitor wields the power of the Emperor and can demand anything from a member of the Imperium, even a High Lord of Terra couldn't refuse unless they had good reason. Now an Inquisitor might not demand a Chapter to obey them, they would make a tactful request for assistance first from the Chapter Master but effectively would be in control.

Unless your the Sons of Malice who eat Inquisitors.

the Adeptus Astartes also wield the Power of the Emperor. technically, Inquisitors and Astartes are on an equal, but seperate, footing.

The only individuals who have some measure of control over Space Marines are the High Lords. they are the ones who decide weather to found a new chapter or not.

of course an Inquisitor can declare a Chapter to be Heretical and have them purged. this is, however, a very serious charge to bring up and if it proves false the Inquisitor will be in big trouble.

While the usual course of events for the last remaining company is to go on a crusade to the death, I'd imagine that a few chapters might go the route of the Crimson Fists under Pedro Kantor. So long as they have an Apothecary left, they could try to rebuild, I think. A squad or so could also volunteer themselves into the service of a Rogue Trader.

I wonder what the possibility of a lone Marine becoming an Inquisitor is.

Grey Templar wrote:
the Adeptus Astartes also wield the Power of the Emperor. technically, Inquisitors and Astartes are on an equal, but seperate, footing.

The only individuals who have some measure of control over Space Marines are the High Lords. they are the ones who decide weather to found a new chapter or not.

of course an Inquisitor can declare a Chapter to be Heretical and have them purged. this is, however, a very serious charge to bring up and if it proves false the Inquisitor will be in big trouble.

Old GW Site:
These threats are so pernicious that the Inquisition has full command of the might of the Imperium of Man, from the stalwart Space Marines to the ordering of Exterminatus – the orbital destruction of an entire world.

Old GW Site:
An Inquisitor has at his disposal every member of the Imperium and will not hesitate to commandeer local troops at a moment's notice. Such is the influence of the Inquisitor that he can even call upon the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, leading a force of the Imperium's finest warriors against Humanity's foul enemies, wherever they appear.

Codex: Witch hunters
Even the Space Marines may be called upon to aid an Inquisitor should the threat be greater than he and any locally requisitioned forces are able to counter.

Codex: Daemonhunters
An Inquisitor has at his disposal every member of the Imperium, and will not hesitate to requisition local troops at a moment’s notice. Such is the influence of the Inquisitor that he can even call upon the Space
Marines of the Adeptus Astartes, leading a force of the Imperium’s finest warriors against Humanity’s foul nemesis, wherever it appears.

An Inquisitor can declare anyone a heretic, that's what makes them so bad ass Not sure if there are many out there who would say 'Actually Mr Inquisitor, but you are wrong' as they would get declared a heretic to.

Commander Endova wrote:
I wonder what the possibility of a lone Marine becoming an Inquisitor is.

It's not completely unheard of, but it would be an exceptional case.

If space wolves are disgraced, they are 'lent' to a family of navigators who are very friendly with them for a period of time as bodyguards, and then they return to their chapter

I was thinking the same kinda thing recently, debating the plausibility of isolated groups of the traitor legions sitting out the heresy unaware of what has happened or the fact that their legion has become corrupted
this seems most likely with Iron warriors given the sheer no. of bastions they built all over the damn place with a squad or company left to guard them (ok maybe not a company but that could be an excuse for a large army)
loyalist Iron warriors would an interesting army to make as they would have access to some of the older and batter technology's

winnertakesall wrote:If space wolves are disgraced, they are 'lent' to a family of navigators who are very friendly with them for a period of time as bodyguards, and then they return to their chapter

It depends on their disgrace, some se the Wolfblade as an honourable charge as they are fulfilling the oath Russ made to House Belisarius, others see it as a punishment as they are far from important battles.