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So, here's the deal. Running in an escalation league, started at 500 points. Just finished the 3rd month, and have only one one match.

Here's my issue, we have to keep 75% of our current force as we upgrade to the next month.

Currently have

CCS
Vet w/Melta
HWS with Missile Launcher

Platoon A
PCS
Platoon Commander w/Bolt Pistol
HWS w/Missile Launcher

4x Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Platoon B
PCS
Platoon Commander w/Bolt Pistol
HWS w/Missile Launcher

4x Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher w/Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher w/Lascannon

I also have 2 Commissar each attached to a Inf Squad for when I need to Blob up (mainly KP missions)

I have 340 points that I get to add, so I get a total of 1500 points, but can only change 25% of what I have in my current list.

T8erstick,

Yup, I’ve been running 2 platoons as my core for 11 years now. With each new codex and rules set you have to tweak things of course, but with the 2009 codex and 5th edition 2 platoons works quite well as a solid firebase.

Here’s some additional feedback on your list:
1.) The latest version of 40K has really emphasized mobility. Luckily the 2009 IG Codex also gave the IG mobility by making our Chimeras cheaper and by giving us Vendettas. Thus I recommend you use your remaining 340 points with this in mind.
2.) You are also wise to take commissars with this latest rule set. I do recommend tossing 3 vox sets into your army: 1 to each of your blobs and 1 to your CCS. The ability to re-roll orders is to the 2009 Codes what iron discipline was to the 2003 IG Codex. An utterly cheap and useful ability.
3.) Lascannons are still good (i.e. keep your platoons as lascannon platoons), but lascannons are not as good as they were under the old editions of 40K due to the improved vehicle cover saves. Note that the metagames of many gaming stores are vehicle heavy these days because the 4++ save has revived the rhino rush of old. Thus, you see many vet squads with 3 meltaguns and Vendettas in many lists because a meltagun up close is one of the best ways the IG have of stopping vehicles. You might consider tossing in some “meltavets” in Chimeras” and Vendettas with your 340 points.
4.) Also note that many IGers prefer blobs of 30 rather than 40. 40 is just a wee bit too unwieldy. The points can go towards vendettas, chimeras, and meltavets (or whatever).

Best of luck in your league!

Tallarn Commander

IG, “We are many. They are few.”

You might double check the costs, but TC has some great points there. If you convert 2 inf squads into vets, then you would have 240 left to spend, put them in 2 chimeras, and that would leave you 130. I'd throw in 2 to 3 melta's per squad and add in the vox's. I have nothing but good comments on those. With extra points you might be able to add a bit more to the regular squads.

That's what I was afraid of. I just don't want to be 'another Guard' player. That's what the other guard players here run, although they only run one platoon.

That's a risk we all run, playing between being Unique and effective is a hard thing to do. If you want to win, do what everyone else is doing, you'll have the best chance. If you want your army to, as a certain WD editor once said, 'look like an actual army', thn you will be trading raw effectiveness for peace of mind and soul. Do what makes you feel is best, because both can win.

t8erstick wrote:CCS
Vet w/Melta
HWS with Missile Launcher

This squad is all over the place. No chimera means the squad is quite squishy. Second, you have a melta and missle launcher which simply don't mesh terribly well. Melta is a mobile close range tank killer, where the missle launcher is (useless in my opinion, when compared to a lascannon which is only 5 more points and does a lot more damage to vehicles, or an autocannon, which is 5 less points and does a lot more damage to infantry,) long range, heavy, and good for infantry and light vehicles. Basically each time you use one, you wouldn't be using the other. As you got from the aside, I dislike missle launchers. I feel, for their points, the lascannon is much better against vehicles (ML can't even pen Av14) and the autocannon is much better against infantry (2 shots). Basically I usually advise to remove missle launchers and to put combonations of lascannon and autocannon and then choose your shots. However, lascannon themselves aren't the best anti-tank weapons, unless taken in heavy weapons squads of 3 and matched with orders and even those can be argued to be a point sink and too easy to kill. Anyway, I would add a Chimera to this squad, and either go with a heavy weapon OR assault weapons... not mix and match.

t8erstick wrote:Platoon A
PCS
Platoon Commander w/Bolt Pistol
HWS w/Missile Launcher

Unless you have points to waste, bolt pistols are a single shot, at BS3 (i.e. 50% to hit) that can only be fired at extremely close range. It's only a tiny bit of points, but useless anyway, unless you like WYSIWYG and the boltpistol model (it is pretty sexy). Again, missle launchers are not my favoriate heavy weapon.

t8erstick wrote:4x Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Autocannon

Autocannon/grenade launcher combo is cheap and effective, and I love it. Personally (like the other said) I like to use 30man blobs, not 40. If you take your 30man blob and put 15 men in cover, the other 15 can be placed in the open, to create bubble wrap for tanks (to protect from assaults), or a meat shield for other infantry (4+ cover). I would strongly recommend putting in all the grenade launchers and autocannons in, to increase your firepower. OR if you expect this blob to be your front line, add power weapons instead. Power weapons in an infantry blob essentially work the same way as an ork mob does. You have 30 or 40 or 50 men in a blob, which will all die before your opponent can manage to kill the sergeants who have power weapons and are killing the foe. Don't under estimate a few power weapon attacks and 30+ extra wounds.

t8erstick wrote:Platoon B
PCS
Platoon Commander w/Bolt Pistol
HWS w/Missile Launcher

4x Infantry Squad
Grenade Launcher
Lascannon

Same as before, except lascannon and grenade launchers don't work quite as well together as the other combonation.

t8erstick wrote:Leman Russ Demolisher w/Lascannon

Leman Russ Demolisher w/Lascannon

Don't like this tank too much, because of its terrible range. Basically you have a really expensive tank firing a lascannon each turn, and eventually a few demolisher shots. Personally, I almost always use the standard Russ, unless I have something specific I am going to use the tank for. (i.e. in matches where I don't know my opponent I go with LRBT)

t8erstick wrote:I also have 2 Commissar each attached to a Inf Squad for when I need to Blob up (mainly KP missions)

Cool, give them power weapons too if you give the sargeants power weapons. Because they aren't IC, they are great for more power weapons.

t8erstick wrote:I have 340 points that I get to add, so I get a total of 1500 points, but can only change 25% of what I have in my current list.

You need more anti-tank, badly. Infantry heavy lists benefit from artillery, so get rid of the demolishers and their crap range, and get some standard Russ in, with their 6' range. Or add some Manticore (which are great at taking out vehicles) or Vendetta. Put command squads into Chimera and give them weapons like melta, etc.

How many points are you upgrading to?

The first thing you've got to do is upgrade your infantry platoons. That 25% difference should be mostly taken up by giving out power weapons or plasma guns to your infantry.

Otherwise, I'm guessing you play your army really static-like, and that you're having a hard time winning objectives games because you're not moving enough. That's sort of just conjecture, though. We'd really have to see some battle reports or something to tell if there's something wrong with your fieldcraft.

Current month I have 1160. That's the list posted above.

Adding 340 points for a total of 1500. As for the 25% rule, I can only remove that much from my army (290) points. So, I'm stuck keeping both platoons in for next month. The other two guard players both run a platoon with 2 squads of Chimera MeltaVets. I was trying to not go down that same road.

As for missions, I have pulled a couple of draws on objective missions, while KP and everything else just don't seem to work. I try to get my squads into the best firing positions. Usually I try to advance behind the russes to provide some cover.

Agree that standard russes are probably the better fit. My problem is that other than 1 Manticore and 2 Hellhounds I have very little else in my available reserves. For some reason I misplaced my bits so I can make more guards. Also, gaming budget is a little tighter that I would like right now. :(

So, aside from Chimera MeltaVets, what could I use to take out vehicles?

May I humbly suggest perhaps a Devil Dog? With a multimelta it sets you back 135pts, with the ability to move 12" and fire a blast template melta at the enemy. Multimelta can be swapped for a free H.Flamer, which gives both tank/MEQ cracking and crowd control in a relatively cheap package. You could proxy those hellhounds no problem, or failing that, just take them and sweep the lines.

Van Braun - that's actually a really good idea. May have to work on making a new turret for the Melta Cannon, but should be easy enough. I was also thinking of an Armoured Sent. Something that can tarpit for a couple of turns, even with just a multi-laser it might be worth it.

Lt Lathrop - I can understand your disdain for Missile Launchers. I used to feel the same way. However they do provide some tactical flexibility. I've consistantly taken out SM Captains with them. Plus the CCS is already a heavy target at my local store.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll submit a proposed list when I get home and everything figured out.

I like the two large squads - I would always add power weapons and commissars and drop the heavy weapons as I would want them to be moving every turn. If you want the heavies, put some HWS in as well. If they want to shoot up the HWS (preferably in cover) they are getting a large squad landing on their noses with over 80 attacks on the charge, over 10 of which are power weapons. If you add a priest then they reroll misses as well!

With 2 large platoons I would look to add Al'Raheem so the second one can outflank and you can control the board easily. Possibly an astropath to the CCS if you are then relying on reserve rolls.

I'd also stick flamer in the CCS as an anti-assualt cover. Possibly even voxes with such a large number of troops?

If this leaves 200+ points, then I think your priority will be a third HS slot or valk/vendettas.

No commissars? :(
For groups of infantry, I would suggest adding a commissar or two. Otherwise your troops run away once they start taking casualties.
Try blobbing the squads up. Why? Because LD 8 isn't very high and once the 25 % casualty rules apply... Well... Just count on it that they will run.
I assume your company commander is running with the soldiers? If so, use a REGIMENTAL standard. This will prevent your troops from running and you don't have to shoot them. (Don't woirry, the enemy ill do it often enough... )
If you want to pin infantry, then use mortars. They are cheaper. If you want to take out vehicles, then use a lascannon. They are more expensive...
I wouldn't recommend HWS actually... In 5th edition, there is a lot of movement involved... If you are gonna move your heavy weapon squads, you cannot fire. Leaving those points useless.
If you want to use some sentinals? Try giving them autocannons and have them flank the tanks. This way, they get shots on the side armor
You can also equip the sentinals with flamers (anti Inf.) or something else, if you want. I wouldn't suggest missile launchers.
Voxes are quite nice for infantry squads, they ensure that the troops obey the orders.

t8erstick wrote:
I also have 2 Commissar each attached to a Inf Squad for when I need to Blob up (mainly KP missions)

Yes, each platoon has a Commissar.

While my army may not win any tourneys, or be the most effective, I like the platoons with 4 squads each. The only other thought I had was to create a third platoon, but with the inclusion of Devil Dogs w/Multi-Meltas I was thinking of adding an armored Sentinel which just about covers the points. Think I will head to my local store so I can try this new rendition.

Hmm... I wouldn't add just one armoured sentinel. Because when you only have one of something, everything that fills that niche is going to fire at it.
If you have one tank, then all anti tank weapons will fire at it.

If you were having trouble taking objectives, a tactic many Imperial players use is the artillery capture. I personally generally play a fairly static gunline army. What you lack in mobility you can make up for in range. You aren't required to capture points, simply to control more of them than your opponent at the end of the game.

Going by what you have already, and what you allowed to change. I would say to use your "changes" to move the Demolishers to LRBT, so you have two 6' S8 AP3 shots per turn. Also LRBT have a surprising bit of mobility... as they can fire and shoot each turn. I usually slap a lascannon on the front to add a little more hurt at 4' range. And generally what I am shooting at with the Battle Cannon is generally stuff I would fire Lascannon at. Then I would add A Manticore, or if you are feeling ballsy... two (making room for them by squading up your LRBT (which has a few disadvantages/advantages associated with it.) Manticore will give you an impressive D3 S10 AP4 shots PER TURN. Which means they average out to 2 shots per turn... can only fire for 4 turns... means by the end of turn 4 you can expect about 8 cannon shots. This by itself is great, but considering that Manticore draw a lot of fire... its good they get to crank out their shots quickly. Furthermore, because of your second blob, you can dedicate a whole blob to bubble wrapping your Manticores. Also because of the size of your blob, you can manage to get half of the blob in cover, keeping your sergeants on the front to prepare for assaults, and your heavy weapons at the front so they have range to use their weapons. So think, heavy weapons teams in cover, supported by special weapons (I am thinking 4 autocannon and grenade launchers), then sarges placed in areas where melee assaults are expected. The rest of your infantry can be used to draw a line of cover around your Manticores making a meat shield that protects your tanks vulnerable Av10 from assaults.

Between the LRBT and Manticores no infantry will survive on the capture locations very long. Also, a really cool side effect of the Manticore. Because the shot is ordinance, it gets to roll 2 and take the best for armor pen. It may not be a melta (S8+2D6) but it is pretty damn close (S10+(best of 2 D6). Also, on the few occasions you face a Necron Monolith, you won't have to worry about those pesky living armor bonuses... Manticore cares not for such soulless abominations. Even EVEN better is it shoots for side armor.

Focus on killing assaulting elements of the enemy's army with heavy gunline fire (i.e. heavy and special weapons in your platoons) and shattering artillery (LRBT and Manticores). Then as the enemy lines hit yours, protect your most important items (Manticores primarily) with infantry, and use sarges/commissars with power weapons to do significant damage to those who assault you. Good cover will keep your infantry soaking shots all game. Then once the attacking forces thin, you can retrain your guns on those sitting on objectives.

I've used this tactic to much success, and considering the current lay of your forces, infantry/artillery is the most feasible.

Summary:
Switch to LRBT
Add Manticore
Add heavy/special weapons/power weapons to your blobs.
Add Chimera/heavy weapons/special weapons to officer squads
Win

My take... good luck!

While I like the concept behind your idea Lt Lathrop, I need to clarify. Each IS has special/heavy weapons already included. One platoon has GL/AC and the other has GL/LC. Adding in the Manticore was my first thought, but leaves me with 210 points which is not enough to put in my other option of 2 Devil Dogs. Perhaps if I added Creed/Kell in a second CCS and a couple of Armoured Sents then it might work for a good firebase.


Aside from that this is what I was actually looking at.

CCS (90)
Company Commander
4x Vets w/melta

Platoon A
PCS (50)
Platoon Commander
4x Guardsman w/flamer

Infantry Squad A1 (100)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Autocannon HWT
Commissar

Infantry Squad A2(65)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Autocannon HWT

Infantry Squad A3(65)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Autocannon HWT

Infantry Squad A4(65)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Autocannon HWT

Platoon B
PCS (50)
Platoon Commander
4x Guardsman w/flamer

Infantry Squad B1 (110)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Lascannon HWT
Commissar

Infantry Squad B2(75)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Lascannon HWT

Infantry Squad B3(75)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Lascannon HWT

Infantry Squad B4(75)
Sgt/Grenade Launcher/Lascannon HWT


Devil Dog w/multimelta & smoke (140)
Devil Dog w/multimelta & smoke (140)

LRBT w/lascannon (165)
LRBT w/lascannon (165)

Comes out to 1420, and I did end up taking out the Missile Launchers from all command squads. Just don't know what to do with the extra 80 points. :(

Comments please.

Wow, hate to say it, but this is one of the lowest firepower 1500 point lists I've ever seen. Apart from a couple of russes and some single shot meltaguns on a couple other tanks, this list has VERY little killing power.

I would seriously recommend dropping stuff so that your infantry actually stand a chance to do some damage. Otherwise, these unbalanced squads are just popcorn waiting to be chewed on. A thousand points of popcorn...

Fine then. Aside from the everyone runs Meltavets squads what would you change. It's easy to say that it won't work, but how about some positive feedback? And I don't have the $$ to fork out for multiple Vend/Valks either. So, using what I have, this is what I came up with. Or should I just quit and walk away.

First off, don't quit.

Do you have the devil dogs for fluff? And is your infantry blob'd?
If your open to it you could swap the dogs for vendettas, then replace your LC on the INS to AC. Would give you more shots from your infantry per tun, more LC shots per turn and let you engage 2 targets instead of 1 if the infantry is blob'd up. Also, maybe 4 squads in 1 blob is to much, I don't know personally, just what I've seen here. This would all free up some points for you to wiggle with.

With your list as is, i wouldn't spend points on creed. Just run 2 CCS and you will have all the orders you need.

Look at your list and think about what roles you have covered? And think about how people are going to be coming at you and how you can handle what they have.

Who is dealing with armor?
How are you going to deal with horde?
What's going to take care of MEQ or those pesky TEQ?
What are you going to assault, counter assault with?
What is going to grab objectives?
Whats going to happen if somehthing shows up in your backfield (Pods, Deepstrike, etc.)?
What redundancy do you have? And do you have depth in defense with the possibility of overlapping fields of fire?

Just food for thought man, keep at.

Thank you for your response Galladrel. I got frustrated, so forgive me. I just started playing again, played in 3rd and the start of 4th, so I am still trying to figure everything out.

I do wish I could field two Vendettas. The problem is I can't afford $120 right now to put them in.

As for my platoons, I was contemplating taking one IS from each and tacking on a third platoon to provide more flexibility. Usually I only blob up squads for KP missions, or unless I need the additional shield. I am a huge believer that the cost of men is cheap, and have successfully positioned my opponent into a spot where they were hit by multiple squads in crossfire. The local orc player felt that with two squads full of boyz.

As for the local metagame, most players have at most two vehicles AV14, with the exception being the orc who uses 3 waggons (ouch).

The plan is for AC's to crack transports/light tanks while using Lascannons/Devil Dogs for the tougher stuff. The reason for the Devil Dogs is that I have the Hellhounds already, but don't want to use them for Anti troop as I am already fielding the LRBT and multiple IS's once the transports have been cracked. The Flamers on the PCS's are for fire support if needed.

I have the following that I have, but haven't included;
Manticore
Armoured Sent (partially assembled)
6 IG snipers
10 man Stormtrooper squad (specials GL/Flamer)
handful of additional infantry

I do want to get Chimera's and Vend/Valk eventually, but the cash isn't there right now so I'm making the most of what I have. As for the Leman Russes, I have one of each, and I made it so I can run two battlecannons, or I can run two different variants.

Blobs are really good was of running a guard army. I wouoldl suggest a vox in each 'blob' and one in each command sqaud as a reroll on 'first rank FIRE second rank FIRE' could be the difference between 80 and 120 shots from one squad. IMHO dont bother with the vendetta/melta armed tank. Everyone forgets that guardsmen come with frag grenades now. 40 grenades at the rear armour of a tank can destroy most things in other armies (not LR or walkers) so you only really need the extra anti tank firepower to take out the enemies real 'heavy' support. Use the extra points for some more heavy weapons squads to include with the platoon - missile launchers/mortars are very effective at infantry and tanks so casn have dual purpose in your army. It would make your army a bit more versitile.

Don't give up! part of the fun is figuring out what works and what doesn't!
i'd say given what you have listed that you can use, i'd work in the Manticore.
and then you could switch out the LC for AC if you have the models.

Ok, so off the wall idea. I was trying to use the higher BS of the CCS for in close melta shots. What if I move them to SWS and take two CCS with Vox and 3 snipers each? That would be 70 points for each CCS, the ability to issue 2 orders each and provide cover fire and damage MC's if needed. I do like the GL/AC combo for IS, and it has really worked well for light AT/transport and pesky longfangs.

As for the 4 IS in platoons, they can become too much at times. I will most likely add in a third platoon of most likely 2 IS for added flexibility, pulling one squad from the other two to make it 3/3/2. I'll figure it out at home when I can get to my codex. With the two CCS running 140 points, and the more I think about snipers, the more I like it, and my HS costing 490, that leaves me with 870 points for my troops. The Snipers provide me just one more weapon with longer range before enemies get into the 24in bubble of flashlight death (happiest moement was when Njal Stormcaller failed 3 saves when faced with over 30 lasgun shots)

Ailaros wrote:Wow, hate to say it, but this is one of the lowest firepower 1500 point lists I've ever seen.

Uhhhh what? It's got tons of firepower! 4 autocannons, 4 lascannons, 2 Leman Russes, 2 Devil Dogs and over 90 infantry models is low firepower? Justify please, otherwise your just misleading people.

L. Wrex

t8erstick I know what you mean with the $. That is truly one of the great things about these forums. You can kick some ideas around and hopefully not lay out to much $ for units you use 2 or 3 times and then replace. I like you have also just returned to the hobby. A friend and I have been play testing, using what models we have, and improvising representations for what we don't. I would recommend doing this to help learn the rules changes to and figure out what you want/need to round out your list well before forking out the cash.