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How often, in your games, does someone try to do this?

I'm curious because I'm new to 40k and it's a curious rule--there's no drawback for losing, so unless you REALLY just want to go second, every game should start with the second deployer trying to Seize the Initiative, right? Especially since you have an advantage in deploying second. DOES this happen all the time?

For me it does. every time I go first my friends try to seize. and every time they go first I try and seize.

You don't always want to go first (for instance, if running reserve denial or the like) and deploying as though you will seize and deploying as if you are going 2nd are two very different things, doing one former and failing to seize is how armies get tabled (and how I tabled a 2k SM army in one shooting phase).

I always try to. There are occasions where it is better to go second though, being Eldar and an objective game are one of them.

But it depends on the enemy army. I always deploy as if I'm going second though.

As Tau, I always try to seize.
Getting that first round if shooting is great.

Surprisingly, not where I play.

The hidden truth about 5th edition is that it's often an advantage to go second. I've had more than one occasion where I was thwarted on an objectives-based game by not having the bottom of the game turn when the game ended.

Back in 4th ed, there was absolutely no reason not to want to go first every game. That's not nearly as true now. I don't think I've attempted to seize the initiative more than a handful of times in the past 30 games.

How about having a friend who rolls a 6 every time he tries to seize? No joke, and it's not like he has loaded dice: the store I used to work at ordered them for him, and I picked them out and passed them on to him. I think the fault is mine, since I gave an Irishman green dice...

Also, reserve denial (and daemons) are great reasons to go second!

I used to play orks. I always wanted to go first. Why would I want to let YOU go first and blow up my army before i get close enough?

Going first has some serious advantages. I almost always try to seize.
Yes. There are definitely times when you want to go second but I think, more often than not, you'll be better off going first and getting the first shots (especially in a shooty army).

Eric

Always try, and wont stop trying until they pull it out of the game.

I never depend on it or expect it.

In a game the other day, I was facing daemons with my shooty marines. I won the roll, but I gave first turn to him (so that I actually had something to shoot on turn 1). We deploy, and my opponent says "do you want to try to seize?". I legit laughed in his face.

It varies wildly depending on who I fight with what. One general rule is that I always attempt to seize when fighting gunlines.

Hans Chung-Otterson wrote:How often, in your games, does someone try to do this?

I'm curious because I'm new to 40k and it's a curious rule--there's no drawback for losing, so unless you REALLY just want to go second, every game should start with the second deployer trying to Seize the Initiative, right? Especially since you have an advantage in deploying second. DOES this happen all the time?

Yesterday I played a 500 point game with a new Tau player. I had taken 20 Hellions and the baron. Deployment was Dawn of War, so I had set up 18" away from him since he chose to go first. I rolled and stole the initiative. I immediately saw my mistake, and told him to forget that and just go first. If I would have gone first, I would have tabled most of his small forces on turn 1, and that was NOT my goal, as I wanted to teach him rules and have some fun.

Depending on the army my opponent fields, I may want to go second, so I don't bother attempting the steal.

Depends on the mission, table, and opponent.

In objective missions (2/3rds of the missions in the game) going second is a big advantage, and I deliberately choose to go second regularly.

About the only time I don't prefer to go second is on an open table and/or against a particularly shooty opponent, to avoid sustaining excessive casualties.

I'm currently in the process of piecing together a C:SM army that does Alpha Strike devastatingly well. Obviously, Alpha Strike works best with the first turn. To that end, I'm taking Shrike and Sicarious as my two HQs. Sicarius allows me to re-roll the seize dice, so I'm exceited to see how well that will work.

My friend tries it every single time. Good thing for me that regardless of who goes first, he always turtles inside his Rhinos and Land Raiders.

I always try to sieze - I would much rather go first turn, as IG.

The only time I would not go first is if I was playing mother ing Mechdar in an objective game.

A friend of mine does this about half the time. It's fascinating.

I get it about 1 out of 6 times; almost like it's some kind of 1 for 6 probability or something.

Do you think the rule should be changed? It seemed very odd to me when I first read it that there's no drawback for failing. Maybe like, on a 5+ you seize, but on a 4 or lower you get a drawback.

Ehh, I dunno. Seems to work well as it is--like people say, you don't always want to go first. It's just a quirky little rule, you know? Seems pretty random.

I seized the Initiative in my last game with Tyranids. Oh the horrors i unleashed with my pre-deployed spore mines.

Everything depends on the strategy you want to have. Sometimes its better to go first and sometimes not.

There are various reasons why it may be better to go first or second.

A rational player would work out if it benefited them, and only roll for it if sensible.

My friends and I thougt of a drawback:
On a roll of a you steal initiative and go first
On a roll of a every unit that has LD must take a LD test. If failed, they may not shoot or move on the first turn, they can still run though

But I don't want this to turn into a proposed rule thread

I allow my opponent to seize initiative. But I never do so, out of guilt. I feel the rule can ruin the best strategy or list without any risk.

The rule is fine as-is.

It's not designed to be good, or even happen all that often. It's designed to plant a seed of doubt in the mind of the person who gets first turn so as not to deploy in such a way to take he absolute most advantage possible of going first.

The only people who are hurt by getting the initiative seized are those who take going first for granted.

Ailaros wrote:The rule is fine as-is.

It's not designed to be good, or even happen all that often. It's designed to plant a seed of doubt in the mind of the person who gets first turn so as not to deploy in such a way to take he absolute most advantage possible of going first.

The only people who are hurt by getting the initiative seized are those who take going first for granted.

This^

I think it's a great rule. I'm guilty of taking 1st turn for granted and then having my arse handed to me on a plater because of it (Damn Guard!). I'm also a sport about the rule, I'll remind my opponent if they fail to remember, should they want to try for it.

Ailaros wrote:The rule is fine as-is.

It's not designed to be good, or even happen all that often. It's designed to plant a seed of doubt in the mind of the person who gets first turn so as not to deploy in such a way to take he absolute most advantage possible of going first.

The only people who are hurt by getting the initiative seized are those who take going first for granted.

Completely agree.

Having the initiative stollen from me has costed me...for my presumed gaurantee of going first.