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C+C welcome as always

HQ

Keeper of Secrets
200pts

Skulltaker
Juggernaught
175pts

Elites
4 Fiends
120pts

3 Flamers
105pts

3 Flamers
105pts

Troops

10 Bloodletters
160pts

10 Bloodletters
160pts

10 Horrors
170pts

10 Horrors
170pts

11 Plague Bearers
165pts

10 Plague Bearers
150pts

Heavy Support

Soul Grinder
Phlegm
160pts

Soul Grinder
Phlegm
160pts

You have a lot of units there. Have you ever considered giving them upgrades like the chaos icon and all that and reducing 1-2 units this will help a lot, Are you new to daemons? What are you going to do with them? Please give me information so i can help you properly

yes I am new to daemons. I dont see the point of icons 25 pts to make sure i dont scatter and it only has a 6in range doesnt eally appeal to me

That six inch range can put your Flamers exactly where you want them to be, or your bloodletters within assault range next turn. On tables cramped with cover, they are a must.

the flamrs I agree with. The bloodletters i dont. it gets me into assault for me fightying on my next turn that means my opponents will be able to assault me on their following turn. the only units i can actually giving an icon to are plaguebearers as they just land on objectives and dont die ever

See my view on flamers is that they should be suicide units. I deep strike them right in my opponents face. If they scatter, then its only 105 points wasted.

But if they hit, the effects can be devastating. You may also want to consider pairing them with the Masque of Slannesh. Her multiple Pavane ability can cram units together to REALLY put the pain on.

So what if your opponents assault you? Odds are your bloodletters will smash most anything MeQ, the only thing you really have to worry about are really powerful CC combatants, and mobs/hordes. Only a few MeQ units would like to charge 20 Power Weapon attacks...

The only reason to get the charge is for furious charge...

The point of taking Icons is not to risk DS mishaps. In an army with all Deep Strikers, it will happen. Icons minimize that risk for the rest of your army. In a city-fight scenario, being able to drop some Pink Horrors exactly 18" away from your opponent is nice, especially since it's just out of charge range for some units...

Oh yes, and I don't see the Changeling in your list, and find room for a third Soul Grinder. At 2k points, your going to need everything you can get to destroy the sheer amount of Mech.

EDIT: Ninja'd... Darn...

But, to the Ninja as he is now to be referred to as, Masque is great to use in coordination with Flamers. And they definately ARE a suicide unit, though if you put them in the later waves, your opponent will be focused on the big stuff, DPs, Soul Grinders, Bloodcrushers, Bloodletters, etc., to care about that small unit at first. Then, if you remember the fact that Flamers are Jump Infantry, you may be able to DS them close to one of your Icon'd units, and then move the 12" right next to your opponents units (note, the flamer template is about 8"), giving you roughly a 15" inch effective "range" on the Flamers. (Note, while the template is 8" long, the circle is Approx. 3", however, I do not know, as I don't have the template on me right now.)

Standard advice is to drop the horrors to 5 man (or 9 man for sacred number) and give them bolts. Drop the PB to 5 man squads (or 7 for sacred number). Changeling in the horrors is a deal and a cool model.

IMO the Keeper needs to have musk, what makes it scary is the way it can hit and run out of tarpits to contest objectives smash tanks, et cetera.

The Fiends need at least 5 man units (probably 6 but they are expensive $$ wise).

I recently fell in love with Flamers in a team tournament I played. I agree they are suicide units but they should always be in the second wave. That way you have time to pull enemies out of their transports. This means Icons are REALLY useful on units you don't want to get assaulted since the flamers can drop in and burn a nearby unit out or put it on a unit you know will be close to their lines.

Skulltaker on a Jug in this list is a bit weird, he doesn't really fit anywhere particularly well. I would put him in a chariot myself. I also think a Tzeetch chariot would be nice too. At 2000 points you probably need 3x Soulgrinders to reach the appropriate saturation levels.

As for Icons..In general I play with one of them in my primary wave. I don't like wasting too many points on them since smart DS can usually keep you in range of what you need to assault and mishap free. It takes a lot of practice to DS a daemon army without mishapping and still remaining in the right positions.

Skulltake is on a jugger because there use to be crushers in the army that he would join. as he is still infantry tho he can still join the bloodletters. not a fan of him on a chariot as sue he gets better but he loses the IC rule which will leave him open to being shot.

I was toying with the numbers and I think i will drop the bearers down to 7 each with icon. get these guys in covr and they wont be going anywhere any time soon.

What should i drop for a 3rd grinder? I have also been contemplating getting another KoS instead of Skulltaker

sorry for the double post but. How competative is this list?I want you guys to make this list as competative as possible

200 Keeper of Secrets
175 Skulltaker, Juggernaught
100 Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Bolt, MoS

190 6 Fiends, UM
105 3 Flamers
200 4 Bloodcrushers, Fury, Icon, Instr

160 10 Bloodletters
100 5 Horrors, Bolt, Changeling
95 5 Horrors, Bolt
75 5 Plague Bearers

120 8 Flesh Hounds of Khorne

160 Soul Grinder, Phlegm
160 Soul Grinder, Phlegm
160 Soul Grinder, Phlegm

2000

I think I'd go with something like this if you want to use the ingedients you mention in a competative list.
I understand this is a different list, but yours is too bloated in the troops department and lacks some staying power in other departments...

Cilithan

Only unit I would ever give an Icon are crushers...
Another nice thing is a Tzeentch herald on chariot with bolt master of sorcery, we are legion and daemonic gaze.
I usually play 2 of them in any amount of points and they are just awesome with 5 wounds, anti tank and anti MEQ.
Not to mention that they are jetbikes

How does this look?

HQ

Bloodthirster
Unholy Might
270pts

Elites

3 Bloodcrushers
120pts

3 Bloodcrushers
120pts

6 Fiends
180pts

Troops

7 Plague Bearers
Icon
130pts

7 Plague Bearers
Icon
130pts

7 Plague Bearers
Icon
130pts

Fast Attack

15 Seekers
255pts

Heavy Support

DP,MoT,BoT,Gaze,Wings
220pts

DP,MoT,BoT,Gaze,Wings
220pts

DP,MoT,BoT,Gaze,Wings
220pts

Total:1995

Good list Just find the points to giive the cushers each instrument and fury to abuse wound allocation pls will make them much more durrable

Ill look into that. What do you think of making the 15 seekers 3 units of 5 for target satuation purposes?

Far less scarry if you ask me. now you can pick them off easy and propably 2 will reach combat and then die.

If you have all in 1 suad he will have a bigger problem. just my thoughts