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I would say to start off, if you going put down others for thinking they are hot sutff, you should try to sound a little less cocky yourself.

Also though i'm not sure you can post those direct wordings from the rulebook. I would say except for new players I haven't seen anyone make this mistake.

Also hope they dont have fleeting scouts with shrike.

I have never seen anyone make this mistake in tournaments but obviously I could see how someone could make the mistake.

However, I have a big issue with how you say it should be resolved. If you allow a player to place his models exactly 18" away from you and make their scout and normal movement phase move towards your models and THEN you try to say that even though his models are actually within 6" of your unit that they can't assault then you are the one who has screwed up and should get schooled. At that point you can try to say 'well you shouldn't be able to...' but technically speaking if his models are there then they should be able to assault. If you have concerns, then you need to raise them right when the rules are actually being broken, which would be when he is deploying the models, or at worst when he makes the movement in the movement phase towards your units.

Knowing that a player is likely misinterpreting the rules and then purposely not correcting them is nearly as bad as someone knowingly trying to pull of this maneuver when they know it is incorrect. The latter is cheating but the former is really, really poor sportsmanship.

I have run into many situations in tournaments where models end up moving more than they possibly should have been able to given the restrictions of deployment + moving. In all cases, these concerns need to be pointed out absolutely as soon as possible because THAT is when the rules are being broken. Trying to wait until the middle of the game to point out that a rule was broken earlier is not only poor sportsmanship (assuming you did spot it earlier) but it also does not allow a player who is not deliberately trying to abuse the rules the proper chance to correct the MISTAKE that they are making.


So nice video, but a terrible, terrible message.

Is this a joke video? While I understand what you're trying to say, you seem pretty full of yourself, and advocating not explaining the rules in the hopes that your opponents screw up and make basic errors based on rules confusion seems like a pretty inappropriate stance to take.

Also, you messed up at the end there. The Scout move has the same more than 12" rule that infiltration does, so even if someone infiltrates 13" away behind cover, they can only scout up to 12.000000001" and won't be able to actually assault you despite getting the chance to infiltrate closer. However, infiltrating bikes, cavalry, jump infantry, or even normal infantry with Fleet can still assault by using this method. These units can also assault after infiltrating within line of sight and Scouting up, of course, but the number of units that possess both Infiltrate and Scout plus improved movement capabilities to boot is (thankfully) low.

And??? Again, I have never seen anyone do this, and I have played a lot of 600 point games. I have seen people more confused with the outflank move. He also probably plays with micrometers, to ensure no one is shaving a millimeter here and there.

ragnor2004 wrote:I would say to start off, if you going put down others for thinking they are hot sh*t, you should try to sound a little less cocky yourself.

Also though i'm not sure you can post those direct wordings from the rulebook. I would say except for new players I haven't seen anyone make this mistake.

Also hope they dont have fleeting scouts with shrike.

QFT

and :

Erm... more than twelve = 12.000001" 6" move + 6" assault is less than 12.000001

= FAIL

You know as someone has been a gamer for 22 years i never understood the need for some to go "hay he/she new let's screw them over", like here as a new player i would made that mistake now if you told me at deployment i would think to myself the plp here are helpful and nice and i would tell my friends (one who plays and who's looking to start) .If I find you let me do it (judging from you video i think this a granted ) just to "prove" how superior you over the new players or just to win i going to think not only is this guy a cheater but i not going to be able to learn how to play here and then tell my friends , all plp at the store/club we do end up playing at.

Because the pool of player is small to start with we can not afford to treat one-another this way i have seen in DD ,MtG ,EQ,WOW and LAN's it only ends badly.

Bad sportmanship is not cool.

Though I've never seen anyone do this with scouts, I have seen many genestealer armies ran this way with a lucky 6" fleet move. Honestly I never gave it a second thought, as I assumed the rules said 18" away (as opposed to more than 18" away) all these years.

Crappy delivery, but thanks for the heads up.

It takes seven and a half minutes to say 18.00001 > 18 ?

Concision = good.

+1 for the display, I liked the way you put together the images to illustrate your point.

+1 for the effort. Its good to see people adding to the 40k community.

-1 for the attitude. Your talking down to people, which really lowers the quality of your message.

-1 for the length. You could have made the point in 120 seconds.

Overall, I would not go to your site. The additude of the video really turns me off to it.
Its like offering a good burger on a moldy plate. It does not detract from the quality of the burger, but I don't want to eat it.
Change the tone, and you will make some awesome videos.

If your opponent does not understand the rule, remind him that he must end his scout move outside 12" of your army. If he somehow still begins his first turn under the assumption that he will be able to assault with scouting, non-fleet infantry, the sporting thing to do is to explain that because they ended their scout move more than 12" away, they could not possibly assault this turn. If his strategy hinged on this, the reasonable thing to do is to ask if they'd like to go back and deploy somewhere else, now that they understand the rule. This way, the game gets played by the rules and nobody has to act like a dick about it.

On a side note, I resent your disparaging association of hometown, low-point games with not having read the rules (0:40).

You're going to put your fist where.....???

But in all seriousness, this video is awful for other reasons besides the teenage internet tough guy vibe. If your opponent deploys illegally you should be saying something then and there. If you allow them to place their units 18" away and not point out that they must be farther, that's on you. If you allow them to move within 12" for the scout move and still say nothing, that's on you. You don't get to just knowingly allow this and then point it out at the last second for some kind of advantage and expect that to go well. That's just...juvenile.

If someone is confused or misunderstands the rules and you know this is happening, it should be said then and there. If someone waited that long to say something knowingly, then I think it's a bit too late. Also, I haven't ever seen this played wrong, but I don't mind the overall idea behind the video. Still, this could have been done in a non abrasive way in the span of 60 seconds or with a diagram and paragraph. Drop the act.

labmouse42 wrote:
-1 for the attitude. Your talking down to people, which really lowers the quality of your message.

-1 for the length. You could have made the point in 120 seconds.

Overall, I would not go to your site. The additude of the video really turns me off to it.
Its like offering a good burger on a moldy plate. It does not detract from the quality of the burger, but I don't want to eat it.
Change the tone, and you will make some awesome videos.

MekanobSamael wrote:On a side note, I resent your disparaging association of hometown, low-point games with not having read the rules (0:40).

Both of these comments sum up how I feel about the video. Your arrogance and smack-talk makes you sound like you're "16 going on Stelek." It's not going to win you friends, whether you're right or wrong.

Also, you can still get the first turn assault via the options mentioned above, or by first turn deploying from a scouted valk/vendetta, or (maybe, I'd have to re-read the rulz to be sure) deploying from a land speeder scout, especially since you get the 2" leeway from the vehicle edge.

Any "tactic" that involves purposely misleading someone or allowing them to break a rule is not one I will use.

This game relies on the honor system to a very large degree. Advocating abusing that is for douche bags. No one likes a douche bag. A good player wins withing the confines of the rules and is both a courteous player and a good sport.

Good looking video though, although it is way too long.

Is this the video you guys are talking about? (OP edited his original post).

If so, I got to say dude that that is some *serious* rule lawyering. I don't play in tournaments so I have no idea what the etiquette is like in that environment but I am totally not going to call someone on .0000001 of an inch in any game I play.

L. Wrex

EDIT: Edited my post as it seems the OP didn't want this video broadcast anymore.

So he explained what we all already knew about Infiltrate and Scout...? Sorry, I don't understand all the hubbub.

There is no hubbub. The rule clearly states you must be more than 18" away when infiltrating (and an enemy unit can draw LoS to you) which disallows a first turn charge. He made a long movie about why this is the case, but then advocated misleading the other player in order to take advantage of their lack of rules knowledge. It came in a pretty package but also came across as pretty condescending.

Aw, he deleted the original post. I wonder if he'll take down that embarrassment of a video too.