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Hey everybody,

I'm going to expand my BA army soon, so I'm going to try and see how good razorspam works.



HQ

Librarian - 100
-Unleash Rage/SoS

Honor Guard - 130
-Company Standard
-Las/Plas Razorback - 90


Elites:

2 Sanguinary Priests - 100


Troops - 6 squads of:

Assault Squad - 120
-Hand Flamers/Melta Guns
-Las/Plas Razorback - 55

1470 pts.

I dont have the rule book handy but it looks like you took the discount out right for the razorback but didnt put in the cost of the turret (so it should cost 155 points?)

(im guessing 1 regular flamer one seargeant one)

EDIT: what i mean is razorback with turret before discount is 90pts

AFAIK you can only take 1 hand flamer per squad, you should give them melta. Also drop the sternguard for honor guard. Shield of Sanguinius is better as well as unleash rage. Sanguinary priests should be in seperat squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The OP priced the razorbacks right btw.

theduncan wrote:AFAIK you can only take 1 hand flamer per squad, you should give them melta. Also drop the sternguard for honor guard. Shield of Sanguinius is better as well as unleash rage. Sanguinary priests should be in seperat squads.

Sang preists are IC's so i think he's spliting them into two different razorbacks

Razor back originally costs 55 points, upgrade costs 35 and discount is 35.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No, they can also be a squad of ICs, which is wierd.

I double checked my math...

I'm pretty sure I'm correct.

Whole unit costs 175.

55 Pts. for the razorback w/ discount
120 pts. for the 5 marines w/ 2 hand flamers


EDIT


Okay, thanks for the help, I have a few questions:

What should I do with the 30 extra points?
Is razorspam worth investing in, I currently have 0 razorbacks
If so, where can I get the plasma gun, it doesn't see to come with the kit.

To answer your question a handless Plasma comes in the SM Commander kit. It looks like the best one to use for that conversion in my opinion.

I'd give my 2 cents on the list, but I haven't played Razorback spam yet. I'm in the process of building it since I love the idea of a mech based BA list over a DoA list.

IMHO

Drop your honor guard, and your sang priests. You already have enough umph in assault, and if you cant do it with that, you cant do it at all.

Bring a Vindie or two with the leftover points you save. That will give you the ability to crack AV 14 at 24" away...oh, and remember the BA vindi can move 12" then fire that bad boy for a 36" total area of influence!

I like the extra assaultiness... but I'll try it out anyways.

HQ

Librarian - 100
-Unleash Rage/SoS

Troops - 6 squads of:

Assault Squad - 120
-Hand Flamers/Melta Guns
-Las/Plas Razorback - 65
-HK missiles

Heavy Support

2x Vindicators

1500 pts.

DO NOT DROP THE PRIESTS! AT ALL! EVER! EVER! EVER! LOL. Anyone who says drop Priests in a Angel list is a maniac.

See you've got Razorbacks which aren't hard to pop and you've got small squads which aren't hard to kill. With a Priest you get a lot more life with those Assault Marines and they are evil in assault with furious charge - why wouldn't you want a Priest which gives furious charge and feel no pain in a assault army? Honestly riddle me this.

This is a Razorback spam army:

HQ

Librarian shield of sanguinus & unleash rage
Librarian shield of sanguinus & unleash rage
Honour Guard w/ Razorback 2 x flamers - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun
Honour Guard w/ Razorback 2 x meltaguns - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

Elite

1 x Sanguinary Priest

Troops
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun

Heavy Support

Vindicator
Vindicator

mercer wrote:DO NOT DROP THE PRIESTS! AT ALL! EVER! EVER! EVER! LOL. Anyone who says drop Priests in a Angel list is a maniac.

See you've got Razorbacks which aren't hard to pop and you've got small squads which aren't hard to kill. With a Priest you get a lot more life with those Assault Marines and they are evil in assault with furious charge - why wouldn't you want a Priest which gives furious charge and feel no pain in a assault army? Honestly riddle me this.

This is a Razorback spam army:

HQ

Librarian shield of sanguinus & unleash rage
Librarian shield of sanguinus & unleash rage
Honour Guard w/ Razorback 2 x flamers - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun
Honour Guard w/ Razorback 2 x meltaguns - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

Elite

1 x Sanguinary Priest

Troops
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x flamer - sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun
5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback 1 x meltagun - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasmagun

Heavy Support

Vindicator
Vindicator

Not sure how many points that is (2000?) but yes Honor Guard and Sang preists are amazing (honor guard have a non ic sang preist in the unit so they are worth it) and sheild of sanguinis is great for razorspam

It is 2k, ditch a squad of Honour Guard for a start and maybe a troop choice, that will take it down to 1,500 points then.

two librarians definatly give you enough of a sheild bubble

mercer wrote:DO NOT DROP THE PRIESTS! AT ALL! EVER! EVER! EVER! LOL. Anyone who says drop Priests in a Angel list is a maniac.

Don't get me wrong, but doesn't your list drop one priest in comparison to him? Well, I guess great minds think alike

mercer wrote:See you've got Razorbacks which aren't hard to pop and you've got small squads which aren't hard to kill. With a Priest you get a lot more life with those Assault Marines and they are evil in assault with furious charge - why wouldn't you want a Priest which gives furious charge and feel no pain in a assault army? Honestly riddle me this.

Agreed, furious assault increases the effeciveness dramatically. FNP increases survivability by 50% (when not fired at from AP2, PW, etc)

However, the RoI (Return on Investment) is what I question when your putting 1 preist in a 5 man squad. The priest is 50 points for those nice juicy benifits. You can look at it like this : 'each model in this squad just went from 18 points per model to 28 points per model'. Its not quite as cut and dry as that, but thats a good start.
(Note, thats why I think DC are good in 5 man squads. You don't get the discount for the RB, but you get an extra attack and free FNP. Its cheaper use DC in that instance over a priest)

Now, take that same priest and put in him a 10 man squad, and I will be singing a different song! Put him in a squad of 8 terminators in a LRC and OMG, he becomes an incredible force multiplier.

labmouse42 wrote:

mercer wrote:DO NOT DROP THE PRIESTS! AT ALL! EVER! EVER! EVER! LOL. Anyone who says drop Priests in a Angel list is a maniac.

Don't get me wrong, but doesn't your list drop one priest in comparison to him? Well, I guess great minds think alike

Actually Honor Guards have a sanguinary noviate built into the unit that is basically a preist (same FNP and FC bubble) but is not an IC so cannot be singled out

labmouse42 wrote:

mercer wrote:DO NOT DROP THE PRIESTS! AT ALL! EVER! EVER! EVER! LOL. Anyone who says drop Priests in a Angel list is a maniac.

Don't get me wrong, but doesn't your list drop one priest in comparison to him? Well, I guess great minds think alike

What? Honour Guard adds another two Priests. I have three in total

mercer wrote:See you've got Razorbacks which aren't hard to pop and you've got small squads which aren't hard to kill. With a Priest you get a lot more life with those Assault Marines and they are evil in assault with furious charge - why wouldn't you want a Priest which gives furious charge and feel no pain in a assault army? Honestly riddle me this.

Agreed, furious assault increases the effeciveness dramatically. FNP increases survivability by 50% (when not fired at from AP2, PW, etc)

However, the RoI (Return on Investment) is what I question when your putting 1 preist in a 5 man squad. The priest is 50 points for those nice juicy benifits. You can look at it like this : 'each model in this squad just went from 18 points per model to 28 points per model'. Its not quite as cut and dry as that, but thats a good start.
(Note, thats why I think DC are good in 5 man squads. You don't get the discount for the RB, but you get an extra attack and free FNP. Its cheaper use DC in that instance over a priest)

Now, take that same priest and put in him a 10 man squad, and I will be singing a different song! Put him in a squad of 8 terminators in a LRC and OMG, he becomes an incredible force multiplier.

Doesn't matter on points the point is that Priest is a utility unit which gives benefits, the Priest is 50 points, not increasing the cost of the unit, it gives furious charge what you want for assault which gives that squad more hitting power and feel no pain which is equal to Terminator armour.

Either way the Priest is a force multipler and doesn't matter what unit it's with.

Touche', you reccomended the same number of priests as he currently has (as he needs to lose 1 to be at 1500)

I think you missed the point of the RoI on a force multiplier. Let me put it like this.
Is a big mek KFF worth it for 1 truuk of 12 boys?
Is it worth it to cover 3 BW and 3 truucks?
In the first instance, the RoI is not that great, but as you throw more models into the R part of the equation, the return grows much greater while investment remains static.

That is my view on priests in 5 man squads. The R is not that high, but the I remains static. 5 models with furious charge is not as scary as 10 models with furious charge. Hence why I reccomend DC for 5 man MSU, the RoI is worth it for them -- even though they pay more for the RB.

We can, of course, agree to disagree. In this case were talking about our views on what is a good RoI, and what is a valuable # for one person may not be for another

The Priest isn't covering one unit though....you miss the point that the small squads survive longer, 10 man squads can asborb the fire power. And obivously 10 man wiht furious charge are more scary, but point is that 5 man can get the job done and survive longer.

If you recommend Death Co which are more expensive then why not Priest? That's just contradicting yourself.

Take from someone who runs a Razorback list that Priests are needed; once you're busted out the transport without a Priest those squads quickly diminish.

mercer wrote:If you recommend Death Co which are more expensive then why not Priest? That's just contradicting yourself..

No, it's not. Think in terms of RoI. In the case of DC, this is what you look at.

Investment :
* 35 points (the discount you don't get on the RB)
Return :
* Fearless
* FNP
* Relentless
* Furious charge
* 4 extra attacks on the charge

Compare that to a priest
Investment :
* 50 points
Return :
* FNP
* Furious charge
* 3 extra attacks on the charge

Look up RoI in the buisness world. Its a very common thing to talk about. If you cannot understand that concept, then we really can't have much of a discussion on it :(
Now, the RoI can improve for the priest if you put him within 6" of 3 squads, as his influence spreads across those extra squads. If he is not, however, then the RoI is not worth it IMHO. Again, we can agree to disagree on that.

labmouse42 wrote:

mercer wrote:If you recommend Death Co which are more expensive then why not Priest? That's just contradicting yourself..

No, it's not. Think in terms of RoI. In the case of DC, this is what you look at.

Investment :
* 35 points (the discount you don't get on the RB)
Return :
* Fearless
* FNP
* Relentless
* Furious charge
* 4 extra attacks on the charge

Compare that to a priest
Investment :
* 50 points
Return :
* FNP
* Furious charge
* 3 extra attacks on the charge

Look up RoI in the buisness world. Its a very common thing to talk about. If you cannot understand that concept, then we really can't have much of a discussion on it :(
Now, the RoI can improve for the priest if you put him within 6" of 3 squads, as his influence spreads across those extra squads. If he is not, however, then the RoI is not worth it IMHO. Again, we can agree to disagree on that.

Something... Something... apples and orenges... etc...

Considering Preists are a Force Multiplyer where as DC are an overcosted squad (not initially but once they start getting the wargear to make them worth it their price skyrockets) and yes you can get more from just having a preist in range of 3 squads (one in middle 2 on either side) which is how preists are always run anyway in razorspam.

Gibbsey wrote: and yes you can get more from just having a preist in range of 3 squads (one in middle 2 on either side) which is how preists are always run anyway in razorspam.

I agree with that statement. If you run your razorbacks like the following...

....X.......X.....
..X...X..X...X..

If the bolded X's are the priest razorbacks then they can cover the others. If you get a chance to deploy in a similar formation, you can spread the cover and make back your investment. By putting them in the middle, you can also spread some coverage if one of the priest RB gets stopped / destroyed while the others move on. The ideal would be if the preist could exit the vehicle on the enemy shooting phase, embark on his movement phase to another RB, then have the new RB move at full speed. Immobolized is the worst result, as he cannot exit/enter a transport in the same turn.

Seem to be a pretty cookie cutter list right now, should be a successful one.